If You're Not Lean Under 200 Lbs....

Training Bodybuilding
101

Funny thread.

I’ve yet to meet someone in person being more proficient at gaining bodyfat than I am. For realz. Sure, there are people gaining fat faster than I do, any maybe the OP is one of those, but still. Regarding fat gain propensity, I’m a champ! It only takes me a couple of days to offset weeks of hard dieting. I’m not making myself available for discussing this, just putting this out, here.

So, BOOHOO ME!

Now, to the more important fact:

I’ve always made the best lean gains and the best body fat reductions when training every day. Period.

The trick is in managing fatigue and keeping healthy while doing it. I’ve always had the former down pat, but used to suck at the latter.

Just get to know your bodies really well and all will pan out.

102

OMFG just get on fucking gear.
You’ll get big, stay lean, and above all if you fuck it up and grow a pair of bitch tits you’ll have no-one to blame but yourself.

103

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
pumped,

have you tried switching from a split routine to a full body routine? Whenever I want to lose weight I switch to full body and it pours off me…[/quote]

Ill second that. Cutting for me is just a matter of lowering carb intake, increasing cardio, and going to full body workouts. Ive tried cutting on 5 and 3 day splits, and just found I didnt get the results I was looking for, but full body gets it done every time for cutting.

104

[quote]joe shumsky wrote:
if i may respond to my detractors…

professor x, i don’t know you… and nor do i pretend to. but i’ve read enough of your posts to find this particular response a little ironic, especially coming from you. you’re a smart guy… think about it.

countingbeans, i’m not sure whether you actually read that other thread you brought up or not, but at no point whatsoever was i complaining about a lack of progress. i’m in the best shape of my life at 31 and, as far as i can tell, now that i’ve discovered what works for me, and what doesn’t, my condition is only going to improve. the thread you mentioned was made because i was seeking advice about some joint pain that i’ve been having recently… as a result of training as hard as possible/as frequently as possible. if anything, i’m mentally capable of pushing myself harder than my body can recover from… so sue me.

the reason i jumped in on this thread is because i AM a smaller guy… and i know all too well how difficult it can be to reach your physique goals when your genetics are fighting you each and every step of the way. i guess i shouldn’t be that surprised when people to which this whole bodybuilding thing comes relatively easily don’t understand… how could they?

i would also like to take this opportunity to point out the fact that frank zane WON the olympia at a weight of 175 lbs… so, am i to assume that most here would consider mr. zane a bodybuilding failure? get some perspective.

[/quote]

LOL!

I do have perspective. You look nothing like Zane, not even fucking close. So using him as our example is a piss poor atempt at justifying why you should be giving advice, when it is painfully obvious you shouldn’t be. Nice try putting words in my mouth. You know it is pretty obvious to most when someone is just trying to sound smart on the internet, and someone is smart.

When OP is 6’3" why is your perspective as a “small guy” at all relevant? He isn’t small in the same context and 180 at over 6’ is tiny. He should have zero problem getting well over 200lbs in a relatively lean state.

LOL!

Good Christ man, did your mommy not hug you enough? Why are you so self defeating?

Every step of the way… LOL!

105

5 pages and you haven’t posted your diet/any pictures.

You also said you don’t do cardio (even if it’s 45 mins of walking a day).

This could just be your own flawed opinion of yourself saying ‘you are too fat’ when really you aren’t, or it could be your diet (list foods, not that macronutrient bullshit).

Also, if your diet is spot on (don’t just give us your opinion that it is, post it), you are training 5-6 days a week, hitting each muscle group hard and leaving in a panting sweat, doing 45mins walking a day AND still carrying too much ‘fat’ (after at least a year of total consistancy): Then you should probably consider PAINTRAINDave’s advice, because your genetics are too shit for you to look like you train in a t-shirt.

106

I was in the same boat as pumped … I always struggled to keep the fat off while gaining … but I never considered this an inevitable genetic limitation! To put it simply, I increased work load from 4 sessions per week to 5 or 6. Meal frequency INCREASED … caloric intake per meal DECREASED. I put in at least 30 minutes of research every day on a chosen topic relevant to me to gain better knowledge.

Right now four weeks into my mass gain phase I haven’t put on much fat at all especially in comparison to former mass gain phases (less than 1/4th). I don’t force feed shit down my throat, diet I cleaned up and I am in firm belief I’m on track to break my previous lean gain records.

To reiterate what plenty have said, DIET is the key to keeping off fat. Period.

There are some of those out there with true genetic limitations that hinder progress greatly … but for most this is not the case at all. As for work ethic in the gym … any idiot can train ‘intense’ … it’s those who train intelligently that succeed.

107

[quote]Teledin wrote:
There are some of those out there with true genetic limitations that hinder progress greatly … but for most this is not the case at all. As for work ethic in the gym … any idiot can train ‘intense’ … it’s those who train intelligently that succeed.
[/quote]

Bullshit. The main problem most of these people have is the inability to do what all of those “idiots” before them figured out from day one. Every jackass logging in talking about “training their CNS” is trying to SOUND smart over the internet when the most basic most powerful issue is missed completely.

No one gives a shit about your IQ in the gym. If you can’t figure out how to train with enough intensity to FORCE a gain in muscle mass, no one gives a shit about how much you read or THINK you know.

108

If that is a standing military press your talking about that is fucking monster weight bro at your size. Even if its seated its pretty good.

109

Pumped340 is that you in your avatar?

110

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

When OP is 6’3" why is your perspective as a “small guy” at all relevant? He isn’t small in the same context and 180 at over 6’ is tiny. He should have zero problem getting well over 200lbs in a relatively lean state.

[/quote]

I’m 6’3, but OP has stated repeatedly that he is 6’.

Pumped, I feel ya, man but you just have to work harder. No matter how hard you are working now, work harder, work longer, work smarter. And stop trying to get advice from people who were skinny their whole lives and all they had to do to make progress was lift weights and pick up a fucking cheeseburger. You will get no sympathy, empathy, advice that is relavent to your situation, or whatever it is that you are looking for from people who are in no position to understand your situation and thus prefer to think your issues are bullshit.

111

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Teledin wrote:
There are some of those out there with true genetic limitations that hinder progress greatly … but for most this is not the case at all. As for work ethic in the gym … any idiot can train ‘intense’ … it’s those who train intelligently that succeed.
[/quote]

Bullshit. The main problem most of these people have is the inability to do what all of those “idiots” before them figured out from day one. Every jackass logging in talking about “training their CNS” is trying to SOUND smart over the internet when the most basic most powerful issue is missed completely.

No one gives a shit about your IQ in the gym. If you can’t figure out how to train with enough intensity to FORCE a gain in muscle mass, no one gives a shit about how much you read or THINK you know.[/quote]

This is all true, but I am also not taking advice from people who repeatedly mispell the word “ridiculous.” There has to be a balance…

Edit: and that is not directed at you, but one of your followers who comes into every thread that you do to hurl insults, offer nothing constructive, and try to look like a tough guy on the internet.

112

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Teledin wrote:
There are some of those out there with true genetic limitations that hinder progress greatly … but for most this is not the case at all. As for work ethic in the gym … any idiot can train ‘intense’ … it’s those who train intelligently that succeed.
[/quote]

Bullshit. The main problem most of these people have is the inability to do what all of those “idiots” before them figured out from day one. Every jackass logging in talking about “training their CNS” is trying to SOUND smart over the internet when the most basic most powerful issue is missed completely.

No one gives a shit about your IQ in the gym. If you can’t figure out how to train with enough intensity to FORCE a gain in muscle mass, no one gives a shit about how much you read or THINK you know.[/quote]

I think people get paralysis by over analysis. The net has sooo much info, a beginner might be overwhelmed. Not to mention the gym they go to might not have the best role models. If you go to a gym and see someone huge busting there ass, you can kinda put 2 and 2 together but maybe they just don’t see that any more at the gym?

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Pumped340 is that you in your avatar?[/quote]

No it isnt I believe it was stated elsewhere in the thread. Not trying to be a dick or attack anyone, but I feel the avatars can be misleading sometimes. We have some with actual photos which actually help there credibility, like Stew. Then I’ll see a beginner with some jacked dude in his avatar, and not to sure if its him or not because he’ll talk like he’s an expert.
Take avatar photos with a grain of salt.

113

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Teledin wrote:
There are some of those out there with true genetic limitations that hinder progress greatly … but for most this is not the case at all. As for work ethic in the gym … any idiot can train ‘intense’ … it’s those who train intelligently that succeed.
[/quote]

Bullshit. The main problem most of these people have is the inability to do what all of those “idiots” before them figured out from day one. Every jackass logging in talking about “training their CNS” is trying to SOUND smart over the internet when the most basic most powerful issue is missed completely.

No one gives a shit about your IQ in the gym. If you can’t figure out how to train with enough intensity to FORCE a gain in muscle mass, no one gives a shit about how much you read or THINK you know.[/quote]

I agree … but I think I was a bit too vague with the terms ‘intense’ and ‘intelligently’. What you described I consider to be an element of intelligent training … no doubt any seasoned veteran or someone who has/is putting on significant size can not deny the importance of intensity in their training to stimulate that growth. I wouldn’t consider myself the most intense guy you’d come across but I know what needs to be done to stimulate that growth.

See I was referring to those who use loads that wouldn’t stimulate shit … yet seem to think their hardcore compound set of 10 rep bench presses supersetted with 10 rep rows supersetted with 10 rep leg extensions is going to stimulate some insane growth factor. That tends to be the norm around here in Australia, not sure about the crowds over in the U.S. and Canada however.

114

[quote]GuerillaZen wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Teledin wrote:
There are some of those out there with true genetic limitations that hinder progress greatly … but for most this is not the case at all. As for work ethic in the gym … any idiot can train ‘intense’ … it’s those who train intelligently that succeed.
[/quote]

Bullshit. The main problem most of these people have is the inability to do what all of those “idiots” before them figured out from day one. Every jackass logging in talking about “training their CNS” is trying to SOUND smart over the internet when the most basic most powerful issue is missed completely.

No one gives a shit about your IQ in the gym. If you can’t figure out how to train with enough intensity to FORCE a gain in muscle mass, no one gives a shit about how much you read or THINK you know.[/quote]

This is all true, but I am also not taking advice from people who repeatedly mispell the word “ridiculous.” There has to be a balance…

Edit: and that is not directed at you, but one of your followers who comes into every thread that you do to hurl insults, offer nothing constructive, and try to look like a tough guy on the internet.[/quote]

My followers? If you are talking about Bonez the guy speaks for himself. What is with you thinking that anyone who agrees with me is somehow a follower of mine? Most of you rambling about other shit on this forum are completely ass backwards.

Take YOU, for instance…someone so ignorant that you base someone’s EXPERIENCE on how well they spell ONE fucking word over the internet. I could see if he was completely unintelligible but he isn’t. You are just a fool for turning your nose up at people who have experienced and accomplished more physically than you have.

Some of the best advice I ever got came from people some of you would apparently laugh at for not sounding like a college professor every time they opened their mouths. That makes YOU the fool, not them.

One guy that helped me out in life as well as lifting a weight was my fucking high school JANITOR…you know, clearly beneath someone like yourself.

115

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
…You’re Doing it Wrong.

I’ve read this a few times recently and in the past as well and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It seems most people believe that if someone of reasonable height is below 200lb. there’s no reason they should need to be losing fat and anyone who does either

  1. Has a shitty diet or
  2. Isn’t training hard enough

I don’t know about other people but I was “fat” even around 170lb. and I’m 6ft. I’ve always gained fat very quickly and always been nearly obsessive with how “clean” I keep my diet. I’m not crazy strong compared to many here but I’ve benched over 315, deadlifted 450, rowed 275 and military pressed 240lb.

I’ve made progress in all my lifts of course while gaining and have eaten high protein with different macro levels but, regardless, I still gain fat pretty damn quickly and am wondering what most would possibly say has been done wrong in this case.

I started at roughly 130lb. and 14% body fat or and was about 170lb. at 17-18% 1-2 years ago, having to stop a few times to do some damage control due to the excessive fat I was putting on at times. Now I’m around 198 and 17-18% body fat, but it sure as hell hasn’t been easy to not gain a good deal of fat in the process, even when I had much less muscle.

In case anyone was going to bring up cardio, I’ve done anywhere from 3x/week HIIT awhile ago, to fasted incline walking, and everything in between. Now I’m not even really doing cardio and hardly notice a difference in fat gain. Carb cutoffs have always been part of the diet since about a year in, high protein, etc… [/quote]

If your really pressed for time this advice might not be the best but being more active could help. It doesn’t have to be training per say, but pickup basketball, walks, things like that. I’d assume there’s a lot of that going on at your school you could get involved in?

116

To get back on track, what has your training looked like recently?

Have you tried logging everything you eat, something like fitday.com?

When was the last time you had a break from dieting?

117

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]joe shumsky wrote:
what i find to be absolutely hilarious about threads like these is that they absolutely follow a very specific blueprint:

1st, you have a genuine, sincere question being posed.

2nd, you have some thoughtful, constructive responses.

3rd, the usual suspects feel compelled to chime in and turn what started as an intelligent, adult conversation into a grade-school-recess-like shoving match.

if i could offer you any advice, i would say that, first of all, there simply is no, for lack of a better phrase, “stereotypical set of results”. while each and every human being is quite similar on a microscopic level, to say that we all posess the same degree of potential for bodybuilding “success” is just plain stupid. even T-Nation’s own bodybuilding guru ct has stated that GENETICS are probably the single most important determining factor in bodybuilding success. not weight training, not cardio, not diet… GENETICS.

now, supposing you don’t have genetics that are 100% ideal for bodybuilding (and, let’s face it, none of those reading T-Nation probably do) this isn’t an excuse not to train as hard as you possibly can… and i, unlike many of tomorrow’s shining bodybuilding stars in this thread, am not going to assume one way or the other when it comes to your training intensity.

i can make the broad generalization, though, that if you feel you’re putting on too much fat, you are either eating too much, exercising too little, or there’s a combination of both factors going on. i can’t accurately pinpoint exactly when it happened, but the current opinion that you have to get fat in order to gain muscle is erroneous, unecessary, and counter-productive, to say the least. just because some gentic freak of a guy with a steroid i.v. wants to balloon up to 20% bodyfat in the off season, it is more than likely not a good idea for a regular, amateur guy to do the same. i’ve said this before and i’ll say it again: BODYBUILDING IS NOT ABOUT GETTING FAT. if anything, it’s about the opposite.

so, i guess my point in all this is that if “lean muscle” is indeed what you’re after, gaining excessive amounts of fat is not the best way to go about getting it. honestly, if i were you, i would attempt to diet down to whatever amount of fat you feel most comfortable holding, and then simply consume slightly above maintenance calories while trying to add muscle without adding any additional fat. true, it is a slow process without great genetics, drugs, or excessive bodyfat gain… but, what can i tell you?

it is what it is.
[/quote]

You actually didn’t present any new information that hadn’t already been stated in this thread.

Why restate what others have written before you as if they didn’t?[/quote]

I think u missed the point that ur an asshole :slight_smile: i didnt even read the rest of it.

118

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
How is it hard to get to 200 lbs while semi lean? It took me about 2-2.5 years to get there, and most of that time I was very ignorant of “proper” training/eating. But I worked hard, ate a lot, and got there. FWIW I’m only 5’7"-5’8", so there’s no excuse for you non-midget people. [/quote]

I’m fucking fist pumping over here…

YES! I finally have something on you, you short son of a bitch…

lol[/quote]

Ya u got to love that how every one that still cant get on the kiddie rides are tanks, and we “very tall” people can barely maintain at 220 lean… could it be of our genetics or that we need to eat more to maintain? For some reason every short stocky guy thinks that taller people should be so much bigger, when history shows that for the most part its the shorter people that are able to gain mass faster and easier.

119

[quote]Undertow wrote:
It doesn’t have to be training per say, but pickup basketball, walks, things like that.[/quote]

I been walking my pup fasted every morning for about 30mins (1.5 miles or so). So not too crazy and it has really made an impact.

Maybe even 15mins going a little more intense than I do will help.

120

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]joe shumsky wrote:
if i may respond to my detractors…

professor x, i don’t know you… and nor do i pretend to. but i’ve read enough of your posts to find this particular response a little ironic, especially coming from you. you’re a smart guy… think about it.

countingbeans, i’m not sure whether you actually read that other thread you brought up or not, but at no point whatsoever was i complaining about a lack of progress. i’m in the best shape of my life at 31 and, as far as i can tell, now that i’ve discovered what works for me, and what doesn’t, my condition is only going to improve. the thread you mentioned was made because i was seeking advice about some joint pain that i’ve been having recently… as a result of training as hard as possible/as frequently as possible. if anything, i’m mentally capable of pushing myself harder than my body can recover from… so sue me.

the reason i jumped in on this thread is because i AM a smaller guy… and i know all too well how difficult it can be to reach your physique goals when your genetics are fighting you each and every step of the way. i guess i shouldn’t be that surprised when people to which this whole bodybuilding thing comes relatively easily don’t understand… how could they?

i would also like to take this opportunity to point out the fact that frank zane WON the olympia at a weight of 175 lbs… so, am i to assume that most here would consider mr. zane a bodybuilding failure? get some perspective.

[/quote]

LOL!

I do have perspective. You look nothing like Zane, not even fucking close. So using him as our example is a piss poor atempt at justifying why you should be giving advice, when it is painfully obvious you shouldn’t be. Nice try putting words in my mouth. You know it is pretty obvious to most when someone is just trying to sound smart on the internet, and someone is smart.

When OP is 6’3" why is your perspective as a “small guy” at all relevant? He isn’t small in the same context and 180 at over 6’ is tiny. He should have zero problem getting well over 200lbs in a relatively lean state.

LOL!

Good Christ man, did your mommy not hug you enough? Why are you so self defeating?

Every step of the way… LOL!
[/quote]
I know lifters that are both around 300 lbs and somewhat shreded. They both know nothing about nutrition, or about training. All they know and do, is " you need a protein shake after a work ouot"… not one of them goes to “failure” or works out 5 billion times a week. Just cuz a guy is big dosent mean he knows what hes talking about, period! I used to have the same mentality back in Uni and it turned out that the guys who were hardly 220 know more cuz they have to work for every pound rather than some guy who eats pizza and kfc all day trains when ever he feels like it and still ripped at 290 with out gear. (when he went on gear it was scary :)))) lol. Ur all arguing like school girls instead of giving the guy some actual advice, and thats why i rarely use the forums.
One guy asks a question, and 20 of the “elite” bodybuilders most of whom try to sell us some crap for 300$ that they make at a loss… ya right… come in and hammer the guy that hes not working out intense enough, instead of asking him about his diet or linking him to some one that actualy knows what hes talking about.