[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Not that mass gains aren’t coming, but that they come with a lot of fat, resulting in high body fat even well before hitting 200lb. [/quote]
Doesn’t that just mean you’re eating too much and/or not doing enough physical activity?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Actually, no. I trained 3 days/week for about a year but when I started and for the last 2 years or so it’s been almost entirely 4x/week. And honestly, I don’t think most people need to be training more than 4x/week or so. Not that they can’t, but there’s no way if I suddenly started training 5x/week my gains would be so much leaner.
[/quote]
Why not? How does more days in the gym, more calories burned and more muscle stimulus for growth NOT sound like a better use of calories if you gain fat easily?[/quote]
Who’s to say I’d be providing a stimulus for better gains? I’m not opposed to training 5x/week (although as you may remember from our PM’s I’m pre-med so it’s already hard to get in 4x/week so 5x will have to wait until summer), but as of now I’m hammering each muscle 2x/week on the 4 day split. As for more calories burned being a factor, as I mentioned I used to do a lot more cardio and that never seemed to have more than a slight effect on fat gain. And when I did switch from 3x/week to 4x/week I never saw leaner gains from that
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]jolopez wrote:
[quote]TK52 wrote:
Pumped340,
is that you in your avatar? [/quote]
You beat me by two minutes to the same question[/quote]
Both of you are serious with this? This guy is UNDER 200lbs yet you think he looks like an IFBB sized bodybuilder?[/quote]
lol yea that’s all 198lb. of me at 17% bf
lol @ the avatar question
I just recently accomplished 200 lbs at 6 feet at maybe 15-16 percent bodyfat… wasit size=33. Although im admittedly in experienced at this discipline i found 5 days a week to produce better results then 3 days a week and 4 days a week. I’ve even gone up as high as 6 days a week (BBB) which worked quite well too. Ive come to the conclusion that bodybuilding training needs to be at least 5 days a week to effective, at least for me so far…
lol…I always thought that was you until this thread.
good luck with your goals!
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Who’s to say I’d be providing a stimulus for better gains? [/quote]
Because of all of those guys who got big by training 5 times a week or sometimes more which allowed them to really pound the shit out of each individual muscle group sometimes more than once in one week.
Gee, if we spoke through pm’s then you also know I was also pre-med and still worked out 5 times a week…while also participating in extracurricular activities constantly.
You are crying in the wrong direction on that one seeing as I am a doctor now who still trains about 6 days a week.
If you want something bad enough, you do what it takes to get it. If not, you accept whatever you get.
'Nuff said.
More workouts equal more calories burned and more muscle stimulus…that you as A PRE MED MAJOR somehow thinks will not help with any added fat gains.
Nice to know.
well you say you hit everything 2x a week while lifting 4x a week. So I assume you’re going Upper/Lower? If so, you hit Chest, Shoulders, Bis and Tris all in one session? Maybe Legs and Back the other? You don’t think 6x a week with 3 sessions repeated twice would allow for more direct attention to the different bodyparts (maybe Chest/Tri, Shoulder/Bi, Back/Legs)? Not that the actual way you set your split matters but by adding those 2 extra sessions you can be more attentive to each bodypart. The way it is now something is probably getting thrown in at the end of a session where you already hit 2 or 3 bodyparts and you’re fatigued and can’t give the kind of effort necessary for growth.
Edit: Professor X beat me to it
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Who’s to say I’d be providing a stimulus for better gains? [/quote]
Because of all of those guys who got big by training 5 times a week or sometimes more which allowed them to really pound the shit out of each individual muscle group sometimes more than once in one week.
Gee, if we spoke through pm’s then you also know I was also pre-med and still worked out 5 times a week…while also participating in extracurricular activities constantly.
You are crying in the wrong direction on that one seeing as I am a doctor now who still trains about 6 days a week.
If you want something bad enough, you do what it takes to get it. If not, you accept whatever you get.
'Nuff said.
More workouts equal more calories burned and more muscle stimulus…that you as A PRE MED MAJOR somehow thinks will not help with any added fat gains.
Nice to know.[/quote]
Damn man, relax. Being a dentist gives you a lenient schedule, so claiming that you’re now a doctor but still train 6x/week isn’t saying anything more than that you work 35-40 hours per week, which is less than a lot of people, and train 6x/week. And you only work 4 days per week.
And I’m not “crying” about anything. I just mentioned that it’s hard to fit that many days of working out into my schedule considering I’m in class for 4-8 hours per day depending on the day, and with studying and other things I’m lucky to get an hour of free time per day not including my workouts. Enough on that topic in this thread though, it’s not at all the point.
training 5x/week wouldn’t suddenly make my gains so much leaner. If you want to say that it would provide a better growth stimulus, fine, although there are plenty of people who might do better on 4 days per week (3 days I’ll admit might not be enough, but countless great physiques have been built on 4x/week). But regardless, that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have still gained too much fat to the point of needing to stop before hitting 200lb. I have always gained fat very quickly and given a starting point of 130lb. at 14-15% body fat (after basically starving myself), I don’t think it would be expected that I would have gained 70lb. while staying the same body fat. That’s ridiculous for anyone but especially someone who gains fat very easily.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If you want something bad enough, you do what it takes to get it. If not, you accept whatever you get.
[/quote]
I like this a lot. I always said that the reason I seem to know a lot about training and nutrition, is because I wanted so badly to make progress in the gym. So much information is available to people now because of the internet, you would think it would be easier,… but then again, perhaps there’s too much out there, and that may actually be the cause of all of the confusion.
(And I’m from Queens)
S
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Who’s to say I’d be providing a stimulus for better gains? [/quote]
Because of all of those guys who got big by training 5 times a week or sometimes more which allowed them to really pound the shit out of each individual muscle group sometimes more than once in one week.
Gee, if we spoke through pm’s then you also know I was also pre-med and still worked out 5 times a week…while also participating in extracurricular activities constantly.
You are crying in the wrong direction on that one seeing as I am a doctor now who still trains about 6 days a week.
If you want something bad enough, you do what it takes to get it. If not, you accept whatever you get.
'Nuff said.
More workouts equal more calories burned and more muscle stimulus…that you as A PRE MED MAJOR somehow thinks will not help with any added fat gains.
Nice to know.[/quote]
Damn man, relax. Being a dentist gives you a lenient schedule, so claiming that you’re now a doctor but still train 6x/week isn’t saying anything more than that you work 35-40 hours per week, which is less than a lot of people, and train 6x/week. And you only work 4 days per week.
And I’m not “crying” about anything. I just mentioned that it’s hard to fit that many days of working out into my schedule considering I’m in class for 4-8 hours per day depending on the day, and with studying and other things I’m lucky to get an hour of free time per day not including my workouts. Enough on that topic in this thread though, it’s not at all the point.
training 5x/week wouldn’t suddenly make my gains so much leaner. If you want to say that it would provide a better growth stimulus, fine, although there are plenty of people who might do better on 4 days per week (3 days I’ll admit might not be enough, but countless great physiques have been built on 4x/week). But regardless, that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have still gained too much fat to the point of needing to stop before hitting 200lb. I have always gained fat very quickly and given a starting point of 130lb. at 14-15% body fat (after basically starving myself), I don’t think it would be expected that I would have gained 70lb. while staying the same body fat. That’s ridiculous for anyone but especially someone who gains fat very easily. [/quote]
LOL.
If you make better gains in size, your level of fat won’t be as much of an issue. Your body fat percentage wouldn’t be bad at all…if you were now weighing over 225lbs at the same height after the same number of years lifting. Some extra body fat is ok if your gains in muscle are enough to justify it. It is not ok if you are still struggling to hold your current weight after 5 years.
Bigbartdawg even spelled it out for you even better. There is no way in hell someone going all out can train that many body parts in one session unless they are a rank beginner. After 5 years, why does that still describe you?
It really bothers me when people say"I don’t have time".
I’m the one who doesn’t have time. I have 4 kids a wife, a job, a home, hobbies blah blah blah… I also work 45-60 hours a week. I have an hour commute to and from work (Prof X can support that H-town commute) and I still work out 4-5 times per week. You learn to schedule. I’m in the gym at 5 AM so I can take care of my gym addiction and still be a father, husband and Boss. Make time for what’s important to you and stop making excuses.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If you want something bad enough, you do what it takes to get it. If not, you accept whatever you get.
[/quote]
Love this quote. People come up with so many excuses, when it really boils down to this.
Actually i pretty much powerlifted since i started lifting, i’m starting to like lifting 6 time a week splitting body parts.
More and more i feel that i would like to be in gym more times.
[quote]jolopez wrote:
[quote]TK52 wrote:
Pumped340,
is that you in your avatar? [/quote]
You beat me by two minutes to the same question[/quote]
That would be Frank Mcgrath…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If you make better gains in size, your level of fat won’t be as much of an issue. Your body fat percentage wouldn’t be bad at all…if you were now weighing over 225lbs at the same height after the same number of years lifting. Some extra body fat is ok if your gains in muscle are enough to justify it. It is not ok if you are still struggling to hold your current weight after 5 years.
Bigbartdawg even spelled it out for you even better. There is no way in hell someone going all out can train that many body parts in one session unless they are a rank beginner. After 5 years, why does that still describe you?[/quote]
Going back to what I said before, so you actually think it’s reasonable to expect someone who gains fat very quickly to be able to gain 70lb with almost no increase in body fat %?
As for the 2nd part, I work 3-4 muscles per session. Generally 3 which isn’t that much.
I’ve seen CC write up plenty of bodybuilding routines with 4 days per week. And I don’t think anyone would question his experience or knowledge on the topic.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I’ve seen CC write up plenty of bodybuilding routines with 4 days per week. And I don’t think anyone would question his experience or knowledge on the topic. [/quote]
I question it if he is claiming that working out 4 times a week is more important than making sure your muscle groups are worked effectively…and to my knowledge he has claimed no such thing.
[quote]
Going back to what I said before, so you actually think it’s reasonable to expect someone who gains fat very quickly to be able to gain 70lb with almost no increase in body fat %? [/quote]
Nothing is “reasonable” as far as PREDICTING what someone else can do. It can’t be done. If someone has the genetics to do that and train hard for it, they can pull it off. What does that have to do with you?
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Actually, no. I trained 3 days/week for about a year but when I started and for the last 2 years or so it’s been almost entirely 4x/week. And honestly, I don’t think most people need to be training more than 4x/week or so. Not that they can’t, but there’s no way if I suddenly started training 5x/week my gains would be so much leaner.
That’s the issue I’m pointing out in this thread. Not that mass gains aren’t coming, but that they come with a lot of fat, resulting in high body fat even well before hitting 200lb. [/quote]
This is rediculous.
Spending more time in the gym will only increase your metabolism. Sitting on your ass will make it slow down. If youre eating right and are otherwise healthy a 5 day routine is not a problem to recover from, just have an off day mid week.
As far as your testosterone levels go. Those numbers don’t say much at all. Free testosterone, estradiol (E2), FSH, LH, SHBG, cortisol, and thyroid hormones should also be checked. Free T and the ratio of free T to E2 is much more important than Total T. Your Total T is not high or even mid range. It’s probably close to average for a 50+ year old man. But it is also unlikely to find a doctor willig to prescribe TRT with that number (Free T could tell a different story). At that point it would be up to you to decide how far you want to go to convince (trick) a doctor to put you on TRT, if that is even something you are ineterested in being on for the rest of your life.
I feel like the question of whether or not he’s training intensely/enough has run its course, although it’s easy to appreciate advice from a guy like Stu or a kick in the pants from the Professor. If I had anything to add, pumped, it’s to try hard to find that person to train with who is simply bigger/more badass than you. when the professor talked about how he can get more out of people who train with him, it struck a nerve because I’ve experienced that in the last two years training with a guy who is bigger, stronger, and younger than me.
I honestly thought I was digging deep in my training, but I had no idea there was another level to reach until I found it while trying to keep up with this monster. I think it makes all the difference in the world.
BUT… like you said, the real issue here is the fat gain with the mass, and I think we’re missing something important. One thing I’ve come to learn about myself and something that’s been repeated by a few writers here is that fat accumulation is overwhelmingly a diet issue, ie. not just what you eat, but how and when.
I look better now at age 30 thna I did at 20, even though at 20 I was eating less total calories, spending more hours in the gym, and doing more cardio.
pumped, I know you’ve said your macro ratios have been both extremes and everything inbetween. How much have you stuck with any one dietary plan long enough to empirically assess the effect it has. It seems to me that you could be the biggest genetic shitpile in the universe, there’s still got to be something you’re doing wrong with your cooking (lack thereof?) if you can’t get better than 17% under 200 at your height. To me, the lack of precise nutritional detail in your post when diet is such a decisive factor is telling.
OP, honestly I went through the same thing as you. It all depends on what your goals are. If you want to be a bodybuilder and I’m guess you do since you’re in the BB Forum Professor X is right about intensity. I used to think I was pushing myself hard and had stalled out. Then I started working out with some bigger guys and in the next few months my lifts jacked up and so did my lean muscle gains.
I always had trouble putting on lean mass, I’m guessing poor genetics and mediocre intesnsity. It may have been a mind trick, confidence booster, or whatever but when I cut my bodyfat to under 14% and then started working with bigger guys, my gains shot up. If you have any friends who are substantially bigger than you, ask them if you can workout with them for 6 weeks.
[quote]Getthisoffme wrote:
If you want to be a bodybuilder and I’m guess you do since you’re in the BB Forum[/quote]
Sadly, there is very little correlation these days.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If you want something bad enough, you do what it takes to get it. If not, you accept whatever you get.
[/quote]
Love this quote. People come up with so many excuses, when it really boils down to this.[/quote]
If it is important to you, you will find a way. If not, you’ll find an excuse.
!!!