I Can't Zercher, Looking For Advice

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

Fuck. So I’m posting this to vent, and to try and get some suggestions. My eventual goal is to compete in strongman, so I am posting this here in the hopes of getting advice geared towards the requirements of strongman.

I train at home with (currently) nothing but a barbell and a set of rings. Since starting training at home I have been using the Zercher squat as my main means of squatting and building leg strength/size.

As of my last training session I can’t fucking Zercher anymore, the bar puts pressure on a certain part of my forearm and pain shoots through my forearm and between my first 2 knuckles.

I’m guessing it’s a trapped nerve, but it completely shuts me down - I can feel it even during light warm up sets. What I’m looking for is a decent alternative, I have no squat rack and not exactly a lot of money to buy one. I’m not a fan of cleaning the bar to front squat as:

A) Front squats suck monkey balls

B) High rep front squats suck even harder

C) If I had to dump the bar (would probably happen sooner rather than later) I’d smash the patio

How important is a squatting variation in strongman? Are cleans a suitable alternative?
I’m trying to look on the bright side of this shit sandwich, so I’m thinking this will allow me to focus on my deadlift, I just need to find a way to get some quad work in.

I had just finished a cycle of 5/3/1 before this happened and planned to follow it until June. I have no bench so I have been simply pressing, zerchering and pulling and had one day of press assistance.

Maybe now I’d be better off doing some kind of 4 day a week upper/lower split (A-Press heavy B-Pull heavy C-Press light D-Pull light) with plenty of assistance (lunges, some front squats staying away from failure, and romanian deads as far as leg work goes)?

Basically I’m looking for advice from someone with experience in the sport as to my best move to make currently.

2

I’m not sure exactly what you are looking for here. Are you looking for a replacement for the zercher or are you looking for a complete program set up?

First, front squats probably wouldn’t suck if you were really good at them. Maybe that should tell you something.

Second, if you want to get better at strongman, you have to have event training in your program somewhere. You’re gonna need access to more than just a barbell and rings.

I would say you could possibly get by without squatting very frequently (I would never advise someone to completely drop it) if you were also doing some event training. But since you’re not, I can’t suggest that.

3

Cheers for the response. Which is the smarter choice? Replacing Zerchers with high rep front squats and trying to follow 5/3/1 on the press and deadlift, or do you think I’d be better served with a different program set up?

I always put sucking at front squats down to proportions, I have a real problem staying upright on them, otherwise I’m ok. To even maintain a semblance of uprightness I have to shove my knees as far forwards as possible and even then I’m not perfectly vertical. This also takes all the weight off of my heels.

If getting better at strongman means learning to not suck at front squats then I’ll damn well try.

As far as equipment goes, I was planning on spending the next few years building a solid base of strength and size, and then practicing the events when I decide to actually compete.

4

[quote]The other Rob wrote:
Cheers for the response. Which is the smarter choice? Replacing Zerchers with high rep front squats and trying to follow 5/3/1 on the press and deadlift, or do you think I’d be better served with a different program set up?[/quote]
Honestly, you could do both.

Do 531 on your deadlift and press and just do hi rep front squats or any other lower body movements you can work out with your current equipment. Some that come to mind: step ups, split squats, walks with the bar either in your hands or on your back, cleans and snatches, etc.[quote]

I always put sucking at front squats down to proportions, I have a real problem staying upright on them, otherwise I’m ok. To even maintain a semblance of uprightness I have to shove my knees as far forwards as possible and even then I’m not perfectly vertical. This also takes all the weight off of my heels.

If getting better at strongman means learning to not suck at front squats then I’ll damn well try.[/quote]
I think it’s more like – getting better at strongman means being strong at everything.

[quote]
As far as equipment goes, I was planning on spending the next few years building a solid base of strength and size, and then practicing the events when I decide to actually compete.[/quote]
That’s fine, but the earlier you start with the events, the better you will be.

5

So basically my week will look like this:

Press 5/3/1 + assistance
Deadlift 5/3/1 + assistance
Upper body accessory work
Leg work - Lunges, front squats, split squats, good mornings, whatever leg movements I can actually do, done to a higher rep range.

I’ll try to get my hands on some strongman equipment as soon as feasible.

Seriously appreciate the input malonetd.

6

[quote]The other Rob wrote:
So basically my week will look like this:

Press 5/3/1 + assistance
Deadlift 5/3/1 + assistance
Upper body accessory work
Leg work - Lunges, front squats, split squats, good mornings, whatever leg movements I can actually do, done to a higher rep range.

I’ll try to get my hands on some strongman equipment as soon as feasible.

Seriously appreciate the input malonetd.[/quote]

That looks OK to me, given the equipment you have. Since you are looking into strongman, I would also add in some grip work and ab work.

7

I throw in some plate pinches, reverse curls, 1 arm deads, finger curls as well as plain old barbell curls every now and then for grip/forearm work. I’ll try to implement them more seriously into my program.

Abs have always been a strongpoint but I could do with working them seriously again, with the rings and leg raise/L-sit variations I’ve always had a lot of success. I’ll probably treat abs as deadlift assistance and maybe throw in some extra work for them on leg day.

Thanks again for the help man. If I have anymore training issues related to strongman I’ll post them up here. Just gotta remind myself that this is only a temporary set back.

8

Do you use the pussy pad or elbow sleeves for Zerchers? Its the only thing I use the pad on, otherwise it feels like my elbows are going to be cut in half.

9

A thick towel. I used to be fine, but now I get electrical like shooting pains from even light weights. Started out with no padding, but the bruises were pretty impressive from squatting 3 times a week so I quickly added the towel.

There’s a certain point on my forearm that causes the pain and it’s fine unless I put pressure on that point. Unfortunately I can’t zercher without putting pressure or weight on my forearms haha.

10

[quote]The other Rob wrote:
A thick towel. I used to be fine, but now I get electrical like shooting pains from even light weights. Started out with no padding, but the bruises were pretty impressive from squatting 3 times a week so I quickly added the towel.

There’s a certain point on my forearm that causes the pain and it’s fine unless I put pressure on that point. Unfortunately I can’t zercher without putting pressure or weight on my forearms haha.[/quote]

You could get this thing:
http://www.westside-barbell.com/lous-equipment/zercher-harness/

Pretty expensive though. And, part of what I like about Zerchers is that they fry your traps, mid back, upper back, etc. as well as the whole lower body stuff.

11

Have you tried putting a board in the crook of your elbows to rest the bar on? There’s a pic of it a bit down this article: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION

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[quote]Matsa wrote:
Have you tried putting a board in the crook of your elbows to rest the bar on? There’s a pic of it a bit down this article: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION [/quote]

Dang, that looks pretty painful too, but I could see how it might distribute the force on the forearms.

13

I bet if you take a few weeks off of doing Zerchers and than do them again it won’t hurt anymore. You where doing Zercher squats 3x a week? Doing that my forearms/biceps would be shot too.

14

[quote]Kalle wrote:
I bet if you take a few weeks off of doing Zerchers and than do them again it won’t hurt anymore. You where doing Zercher squats 3x a week? Doing that my forearms/biceps would be shot too.[/quote]

I ran starting strength for a while using the zercher instead of the back squat, it actually worked quite well for learning the movement. More recently I’ve been doing them once a week as part of 5/3/1.

I’ll give them a rest for a cycle and just do a high rep leg day in it’s place and see if after a month I can do them. I hope this isn’t a permanent thing as I’d really gotten into zerchers and liked having a squat variation I could do heavy at home.

15

You can easiyl do the hole legs with just a barbell and some plates. (as I do ^^)

Hams/Glutes:
Deadlifts, Romanian Deadlifts, High-Rep-Goodmorning (deepends on your Snatch/Clean&Jerk to bring the bar into postition). Short-stride ball-crusher-Lunges (You hold the barbell between your legs)… etc.

Quads:
Hack-Squat are the best exercise for quads without a barbell and you can go VERY heavy on those, you can also do long-stide ball-crusher lunges, and of course high rep OH and Front-Squats.

Have phun

16

Have you tried Lumberjack Squats?

With five plates and Chains or Bands???

They are tougher than they look, especially if you go rock bottom elbows touching the inside of your knees.

Regarding the Zercher Squats: due to my very long arms I too had the same problem with pain in the forearms, as well as the bar rolling out at the higher reps. The solution for me was:

1.) Brought my hands literally together when gripping the bar which brought my forearms and elbows closer into my body.

2.) Set the bar deeper into the crooks of my elbows squeezing it hard against the lower biceps thus making sure that the forearms were far from parallel as possible… almost perpendicular. A good initial set would be the elbows aiming high towards the ceiling, at a level just above the shoulders; it will drop immediately on your first rep but it will be locked in better.

I was instructed that if a trainee feels the Zercher Squat in the forearms then he/she failed to set deep enough and/or was not squeezing the bar hard enough. Also, the intense bar squeezing is supposed to have a nice carry over to tighening your core for the movement.

So… you are supposed to feel it more in the lower bicep and in the crook. I hope this helps.

17

Ah, I actually am pretty good at keeping the weight off the forearms, I think it’s a nerve issue. I can prod certain parts of my forearm and get pretty serious shooting pains in my knuckles, unfortunately this means no zerchers.

I like/liked to think of relaxing the biceps, flexing the delts and pushing my elbows forwards to keep the bar in the crook, and I allow my upper back to round. Before the injury I barely felt the weight in my arms, it makes a huge difference.

I think the problem was related to crushing my fingers together whilst doing the heavy weights, definitely felt severe enough to cause some damage. The irony is I changed to doing them that way as before I was fucking up my wrists by using my right hand to grip the back of my left hand.

Live and learn etc, if this heals then I’ll probably try to learn to do them without my hands touching each other.

EDIT: I guess the thread title is a bit misleading, maybe should have thrown in the word “anymore”

18

Am I the only one that thinks that because this guy whines about sucking at front squats that he should just do front squats?

19

[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks that because this guy whines about sucking at front squats that he should just do front squats?[/quote]

After malonetd’s advice I’ve decided to get better at them. Won’t be doing any 1rm’s any time soon, but I’m going to be using them in 5 reps+ as my main squatting work

20

From a logic standpoint, not from a great level of experience standpoint, it sounds like you think you have a form problem. Going high rep could possibly be the best thing to do for now?