I Can't Bench Press

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:
Haha, what you say there might hold some truth: “to grow I’ve gotta suffer first”. However, I AM definitely focusing on progression, and I want to try and sort out my form atm to eliminate that as a reason for not progressing as fast as I could be - and save my shoulders and all that other important crap I don’t really care about, but probably should.
[/quote]

watch this video. Pay attention to his form. Pay attention to where he ends his sets. Pay attention to his mental focus.

[quote]
As for the rest of what you said, isn’t the main complaint of the advanced guys on here that “people aren’t intense in their training and that’s why they don’t progress/look like shit after 5 years of training” and isn’t that what training post failure is about (being intense)? I don’t get it. Maybe I do need to hold off a bit, but I don’t want to… [/quote]

I’m pretty certain you just need some visuals…

I suggest you buy or find some training DVDs like the one I just showed you…emulate what they do and eventually you will GET it…Fuck what the guys on this site say…99% of them are clueless…Find the guys who are way ahead of everyone else and befriend them and learn how they got there…

22

Well I might just be a country bumpkin, but there has GOT to be a major difference between a 260lb bodybuilder grinding out a rep, and a beginner doing the same.

My training age is about a little over 1 year now, and I’ve been grinding my way to strength gains. Not that they are off the charts or anything.

Gaining 33 lbs helped too.

23

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:
My bench has always progressed slowly. Pretty sure it’s due to form, so let’s work on that. When I retract my scapula I don’t feel it in the chest and feel like I have no power in that position either. Any tips?[/quote]

Your problems are:

  1. You’re not big; you’re lacking muscle in the upper back and lats.
  2. A good bencher never showed you how to bench.
  3. You don’t know how to write a program to bring up your bench.

You might actually have some other problems. [/quote]

  1. True. However, my rowing is much stronger than my benching so I figured that wouldn’t be the problem, BUT I do have problem engaging the lats, I’ve tried the "pulling the bar apart and it hasn’t helped with that problem.
  2. True.
  3. Can you suggest anything here then?
24

I’d bet if your bench lacks:
1. so do your shoulders
2. so do your triceps
3. you have more than one sticking point through you bench range

25

another thing to consider; if you’ve made good progress with DB’s and chest press machines but not the bench… do you bench without a spotter?

26

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:
My bench has always progressed slowly. Pretty sure it’s due to form, so let’s work on that. When I retract my scapula I don’t feel it in the chest and feel like I have no power in that position either. Any tips?[/quote]

Your problems are:

  1. You’re not big; you’re lacking muscle in the upper back and lats.
  2. A good bencher never showed you how to bench.
  3. You don’t know how to write a program to bring up your bench.

You might actually have some other problems. [/quote]

  1. True. However, my rowing is much stronger than my benching so I figured that wouldn’t be the problem, BUT I do have problem engaging the lats, I’ve tried the "pulling the bar apart and it hasn’t helped with that problem.
  2. True.
  3. Can you suggest anything here then?[/quote]

A Westside Barbell workout with one ME day and one speed day.

27

Engaging the lats isn’t just a matter of trying to pull the bar apart. You have to flex your lats “downward” (I don’t even think this makes sense in print) and retract your upper back muscles, and press your head into the bench.

If you don’t feel bench presses in your chest, don’t do them for pec development.

Are you interested in bodybuilding or powerlifting? If you’re gunning for a big bench for the sake of a big bench press, then “feeling” it in your chest has nothing to do with the matter; only what you put up matters.

If you’re concerned about bodybuilding, then obviously the bench press isn’t a good pec builder for you if you can’t feel it.

Pre-exhaust worked wonders for me in bringing up my pecs. I’m triceps-dominant, so I used pre-exhaust with flyes (cable, pec-deck, or dumbbell). I used Hammer Strength machines and dumbbells for presses.

28

Pulling the bar apart is more of a triceps, side/rear delt + upper back -engaging thing.

“Rowing” the bar down with tucked elbows is what you do to engage the lats/long-head of triceps (sort of) more, and also helps with the upper back…

Do both if you’re looking for maximal benching strength, but the pulling-the-bar-apart thing really reduces the effectiveness of the bench as a chest exercise to next-to-nothing, even with a fairly wide grip…

If you want a really strong bench and a big chest, you could just do a full PL bench and rely on Hammerstrength machines and Dumbbells for chest development.

29

And yes, as brick said, the part of the setup where you retract your shoulder blades etc is also a major part of the lat-activation thing.
I gotta say I get much more lat and triceps in the bench when using a closer grip… Wider grip relies more on upper back, rear delts, trap size (as you’d be high on the traps when raw benching wide). Not that your lats don’t matter anymore, but emphasis is certainly shifted towards different groups.

30

Levrone doing work…and proving that BBers are ‘weak’ repping 455 incline

31

[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
Levrone doing work…and proving that BBers are ‘weak’ repping 455 incline[/quote]

Just came to mind:
Watch that video of Zack Khan doing incline bench with 495 for reps with controlled negatives when you get a chance.
Wow.

32

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Engaging the lats isn’t just a matter of trying to pull the bar apart. You have to flex your lats “downward” (I don’t even think this makes sense in print) and retract your upper back muscles, and press your head into the bench.

If you don’t feel bench presses in your chest, don’t do them for pec development.

Are you interested in bodybuilding or powerlifting? If you’re gunning for a big bench for the sake of a big bench press, then “feeling” it in your chest has nothing to do with the matter; only what you put up matters.

If you’re concerned about bodybuilding, then obviously the bench press isn’t a good pec builder for you if you can’t feel it.

Pre-exhaust worked wonders for me in bringing up my pecs. I’m triceps-dominant, so I used pre-exhaust with flyes (cable, pec-deck, or dumbbell). I used Hammer Strength machines and dumbbells for presses. [/quote]

I can flex my lats, I think the problem I have is keeping them flexed throughout the ROM (they go slack as I start to bring the bar down). I’ll try pressing my head into the bench, can’t say I’ve focused on that before.

I do feel bench presses in my chest (the way I currently do them), but not when I retract my scapula - and when I do that it also feels really weird, I am pretty sure I’m doing it wrong (maybe too much?).

Bodybuilding or I wouldn’t be in this forum. Yeah, like I said, machines are good when you’re just starting out, but they’re quickly maxed out. I am in the process of hunting for a gym with bigger dumbells (could use them for shoulder pressing too), but it’s proving somewhat not-possible (for various reasons). Reason for wanting to get my bench to move a bit quicker is that it is my primary pec exercise, I don’t really care about having a big bench as much as I do having big pecs, but of course a big bench would be nice.

Might try pre-exhaust so that I can use the dumbells and still be working at max capacity without having to do 15 reps+, but again, that’s only going to sustain me for so long or maybe not, I don’t know how much of a difference doing pre-exhaust makes since I’ve never tried it.

33

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
Levrone doing work…and proving that BBers are ‘weak’ repping 455 incline[/quote]

Just came to mind:
Watch that video of Zack Khan doing incline bench with 495 for reps with controlled negatives when you get a chance.
Wow.

[/quote]

just watched it…holy crap!! good call C_C

34

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
Levrone doing work…and proving that BBers are ‘weak’ repping 455 incline[/quote]

Just came to mind:
Watch that video of Zack Khan doing incline bench with 495 for reps with controlled negatives when you get a chance.
Wow.

[/quote]

This?

Sheezus. That is one thick dude!

35

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Pulling the bar apart is more of a triceps, side/rear delt + upper back -engaging thing.

“Rowing” the bar down with tucked elbows is what you do to engage the lats/long-head of triceps (sort of) more, and also helps with the upper back…

Do both if you’re looking for maximal benching strength, but the pulling-the-bar-apart thing really reduces the effectiveness of the bench as a chest exercise to next-to-nothing, even with a fairly wide grip…

If you want a really strong bench and a big chest, you could just do a full PL bench and rely on Hammerstrength machines and Dumbbells for chest development.

[/quote]

I did some benching today so I could give some feedback, and tucking the elbows really made all the difference as far as tightness goes, especially in the upper back and lats. I was MUCH MUCH tighter all over. Didn’t get any improvement (performance-wise) though.

When I was at the end of my top set, on the last rep (which I didn’t make) the bar travelled behind my elbow (towards my head) and I couldn’t recover from that. Is that normal and it’s just going to take some getting used to benching this way, or does it indicate a possible weakness?

36

i think that answers your question on bar path

37

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Engaging the lats isn’t just a matter of trying to pull the bar apart. You have to flex your lats “downward” (I don’t even think this makes sense in print) and retract your upper back muscles, and press your head into the bench.

If you don’t feel bench presses in your chest, don’t do them for pec development.

Are you interested in bodybuilding or powerlifting? If you’re gunning for a big bench for the sake of a big bench press, then “feeling” it in your chest has nothing to do with the matter; only what you put up matters.

If you’re concerned about bodybuilding, then obviously the bench press isn’t a good pec builder for you if you can’t feel it.

Pre-exhaust worked wonders for me in bringing up my pecs. I’m triceps-dominant, so I used pre-exhaust with flyes (cable, pec-deck, or dumbbell). I used Hammer Strength machines and dumbbells for presses. [/quote]

I can flex my lats, I think the problem I have is keeping them flexed throughout the ROM (they go slack as I start to bring the bar down). I’ll try pressing my head into the bench, can’t say I’ve focused on that before.

I do feel bench presses in my chest (the way I currently do them), but not when I retract my scapula - and when I do that it also feels really weird, I am pretty sure I’m doing it wrong (maybe too much?).

Bodybuilding or I wouldn’t be in this forum. Yeah, like I said, machines are good when you’re just starting out, but they’re quickly maxed out. I am in the process of hunting for a gym with bigger dumbells (could use them for shoulder pressing too), but it’s proving somewhat not-possible (for various reasons). Reason for wanting to get my bench to move a bit quicker is that it is my primary pec exercise, I don’t really care about having a big bench as much as I do having big pecs, but of course a big bench would be nice.

Might try pre-exhaust so that I can use the dumbells and still be working at max capacity without having to do 15 reps+, but again, that’s only going to sustain me for so long or maybe not, I don’t know how much of a difference doing pre-exhaust makes since I’ve never tried it.[/quote]

So you’ve confused me. You say you’re bench press is your primary pec exercise, yet it does little for your pec development. So you have a poor choice for a primary exercise.

You also say you want to have a big bench for the sake of it, but pec development is your primary concern. How can both things be done if it doesn’t work for one of the goals - pec development?

38

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Engaging the lats isn’t just a matter of trying to pull the bar apart. You have to flex your lats “downward” (I don’t even think this makes sense in print) and retract your upper back muscles, and press your head into the bench.

If you don’t feel bench presses in your chest, don’t do them for pec development.

Are you interested in bodybuilding or powerlifting? If you’re gunning for a big bench for the sake of a big bench press, then “feeling” it in your chest has nothing to do with the matter; only what you put up matters.

If you’re concerned about bodybuilding, then obviously the bench press isn’t a good pec builder for you if you can’t feel it.

Pre-exhaust worked wonders for me in bringing up my pecs. I’m triceps-dominant, so I used pre-exhaust with flyes (cable, pec-deck, or dumbbell). I used Hammer Strength machines and dumbbells for presses. [/quote]

I can flex my lats, I think the problem I have is keeping them flexed throughout the ROM (they go slack as I start to bring the bar down). I’ll try pressing my head into the bench, can’t say I’ve focused on that before.

I do feel bench presses in my chest (the way I currently do them), but not when I retract my scapula - and when I do that it also feels really weird, I am pretty sure I’m doing it wrong (maybe too much?).

Bodybuilding or I wouldn’t be in this forum. Yeah, like I said, machines are good when you’re just starting out, but they’re quickly maxed out. I am in the process of hunting for a gym with bigger dumbells (could use them for shoulder pressing too), but it’s proving somewhat not-possible (for various reasons).

Reason for wanting to get my bench to move a bit quicker is that it is my primary pec exercise, I don’t really care about having a big bench as much as I do having big pecs, but of course a big bench would be nice.

Might try pre-exhaust so that I can use the dumbells and still be working at max capacity without having to do 15 reps+, but again, that’s only going to sustain me for so long or maybe not, I don’t know how much of a difference doing pre-exhaust makes since I’ve never tried it.[/quote]

So you’ve confused me. You say you’re bench press is your primary pec exercise, yet it does little for your pec development. So you have a poor choice for a primary exercise.

You also say you want to have a big bench for the sake of it, but pec development is your primary concern. How can both things be done if it doesn’t work for one of the goals - pec development? [/quote]

What I mean is that I do not have a good alternative. I don’t think I said it does little for my pec development, just that it is not as effective for me as doing Flat DB Bench for instance and progresses at a much slower rate than other chest movements. If my gym had heavy DBs and plate loaded chest machines, I would likely never bench press.

I think I confused you along the way so let me just clarify that I DO feel the chest involvement when I bench.

39

[quote]D Public wrote:

i think that answers your question on bar path[/quote]

I had the benefit of being shown how to bench press properly by Jim Wendler himself.

40

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

2)Do it less often, using other exercises to hit chest and tris. After 2-3 months of this, try regular bench again as a gauge of strength, not an actual “working” exercise. If your bench goes up, then retest again a month or two later to make sure you keep making progress without actually doing flat bench. [/quote]

Yeah i’m doing those. As for your last suggestions, thanks. I’m currently trying #1, simply because I have little choice. #2 is how I’d like to do it, and how I progress best. [/quote]

Why do you have little choice?

What do you have for equipment?