Agree that you need to consider the source however to take your analogy and run with it, if someone had previously given numerous people advice on stock investments that had led to them making millions I might just listen to their advice even if they had never invested a cent of their own money.
The best competitors are not always the best coaches. There are plenty of athletes in all sports who are totally clueless about training and nutrition.
Disagree.
Even martin rooney said (paraphrasing) he didn’t know wtf he was talking about till he started doing some judo tourneys. You need SOME level of experience.
coaches who are unathletic as fuck NOW had some experience even playing touch football. I’m not saying they have to be high level ranking athletes and shit but the all laboratory guys really don’t know dick.
You need SOME kind of frame of reference. Most guys played some kind of football, or baseball, or played a few pickup games of basketball and have no matter how small some kind of frame of reference they can refer to. But most people do NOT have that for fighting. Very much less, grappling, and even less Full Contact MMA.
I’ll put my in the trenches, anecdotal learning experiences versus scientific theory any day. Mark Delagrotte didn’t fight in lumpinee or anything but he had enough experience to produce some damn good MMA guys.
Pat militech i all experience (though they didn’t innovate and grow).
A coach has to compete to go through the nerves and the emotions that a fighter is feeling. If you can combine the two science and experience, you have a very efficient strength coach.
thats when you get the alwyn cosgroves and scott sonnons. The Scrappers, Taku’s, Wiggy’s and the Ross Enamits.
Who said that? Did you read what I posted?
I said they should at least COMPETE or have reached BLUE BELT level.
I never said anywhere that someone had to be an Olympic athlete or world champion.
But a person needs some frame of reference. If you have never competed, you have zero frame of reference. Which means you make shit up, and say dumb shit like fighting is “stop and go.”
Fighting is not stop and go. It’s go, go, go - just at a different pace.
starts slow clap^
Well if you stopped all us inexperienced types from commenting we would learn buggar all and you would be denied another experienced head to talk with!
As I have said before, it is hard knowing who to listen to when you don’t have access to strength coaches etc.
So in the spirit of newbie questions…
I asked this before but I don’t think I got an answer- how should training for grappling/BJJ differ from MMA training? It seems 99% of training advice given here is given about MMA, so what changes, if any, should I make to that (aside from spend huge amounts of time on the mat, which is the major thing I have picked up)?
[quote]Roundhead wrote:
Well if you stopped all us inexperienced types from commenting we would learn buggar all and you would be denied another experienced head to talk with!
As I have said before, it is hard knowing who to listen to when you don’t have access to strength coaches etc.
So in the spirit of newbie questions…
I asked this before but I don’t think I got an answer- how should training for grappling/BJJ differ from MMA training? It seems 99% of training advice given here is given about MMA, so what changes, if any, should I make to that (aside from spend huge amounts of time on the mat, which is the major thing I have picked up)?[/quote]
IMO the main two purposes the weight room should serve for a fighter is
Just focus on getting strong at compound movements, and do movements to work on the speed side of the equation like jumps, O-lifts, or DE work. Just getting stronger will increase your speed up until a point.
I would also recommend getting in core, neck and grip work.
Roundhead, we’re not saying that the ‘inexperienced’ shouldn’t ask questions or comment, or throw out ideas. But placing yourself as the fucking big-dick-swinging S/C expert in something you have zero frame of reference for is just foolish.
Scrappers had a couple of MMA fights, Ross Enamait has an extensive training and competitive history, same with scott sonnon, Alwyn Cosgrove, and a handful of other coaches.
And those guys tend to agree on like 98% of shit that they say regarding strength and conditioning. There are differences in implementation and stuff, but there isn’t much ground that hasn’t been covered by these types.
On the other hand guys like Louis Simmons, or coaches like Dan John, have a history of teaching guys how to produce more force. So if that is what you’re looking to do you almost HAVE to pay attention to what they’re saying.
Never take what one guy says as gospel, but there are certain things that pre-qualify someone as knowing their shit.
I almost prefer the guy who DIDN"T make it, and knows what he did wrong and how to correct it over the guy who did make it.
But the common element is that they both were on the same fucking course.
That said, to answer you question… again just my opinion… but other than boatloads more time on the ground I don’t think that much changes. You just wouldn’t have to spend any time training standup so it gives you more room for other stuff.
I would train my grip strength more. Whether for Gi or No-gi.
Also for conditioning I’d pay more attention to the time frame of matches so you train to go hard for that time frame, and train yourself to recover from bout’s quickly. You might have 5-10 matches in one tourney, you need to be able to deal with having a fresher opponent. This is the major difference imo.
MMA no longer has “Grand Prix” type fights (for the most part other than Dream) so that isn’t a concern for MMA. But if you grapple this is something you might have to deal with. Your guy might have choked out his last 2 opponents in under a min, but you just fought 2 hard wars.
Yikes.
Also for strength training, more isometric work. You SHOULDN"T be doing this from a technique perspective, but a lot of grappling tends to be holding something in a static position so you need isometric strength. This is true in MMA as well but even more so in grappling, just my opinion.
I agree MMAfan, though you can use weights as great conditioning tools as well.
I think speed might actually be MORE important.
to emphasize the speed & strength development thing though I’ll quote the book “Starting Strength”
Quick question on isometric work, as primarily a striker, i’ve always sucked at it. Moreover i feel like when i was training it, my speed went down. Is this just psychological or is there something to that?
how long are you holding tension ? remember that you should do it for 5 s. max!!!
Well it depends, stuff like pushup position holds we’ll do for like a minute. Sometimes we’d do pullup holds at the top, or midway threw the rep.
according to what i know,longer duration 10+ seconds negatively influence speed, coordination and muscle elasticity…(based on NEVERGYMLESS chapter about isometrics)
Thats seems to go in accordance with what I’ve experienced. What about planks and stuff though?
Maybe isometric is a bad term, i mean more like constant tension.
For example farmer walks, zercher squats, sand bag carries, turkish getups or atlas stone holds… I forgot who it was, but in their BJJ gym they had ropes across the top, and you had to shimmy across keeping your hands in like 1/2 way pullup position. imo those things won’t negatively influence your speed. At least not on the mat.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
I agree MMAfan, though you can use weights as great conditioning tools as well.
I think speed might actually be MORE important.
to emphasize the speed & strength development thing though I’ll quote the book “Starting Strength”
As it turns out the ability to produce force against a weight is dependent on the speed at which the movement is trained. What this means is that if the heavy weights are lifted at a slow speed, the lifter gets good at lifting them at that speed.
He does not get good at lifting them at a faster speed. So slow deadlift training will not make the clean move faster. aAdn if a lifter gets good at pulling a weight fast, as in a power clean, he gets good at generating force at the faster rateo f speed.
The rate of speed that is trained is the rate of speed to which we adapt. but this rule only works well in one direction: strength developed at a slow rate of speed can only be effectively used slowly, but strength developed at ahigh rate of speed can be used at that high speed AND at speeds slower than that.
It is incredibly important to understand this. High speed training with enough weight to make high power production necessary, makes for useable strength at a wide range of speeds from fast with moderate loatds where the training takes place, to sow with heavier loads, where the contest squat, bench, and deadlift are done.
…Both types of training (speed and strength) are necessary and each contributes to the development of each other. It should be obvious that a man with a 500lb deadlift can clean more than a man of the same bodyweight with a 200lb deadlift, because of the great difference in the ability to produce force.
But between two men that both deadlift 500lbs, the one moving it faster is producing more force, is therefore stronger, and is training in a way that teaches his muscles and nervous system to produce even more force.
Training faster with a given weight requires more force production because acceleration requires force. The faster a weight is moved, the more force it takes. and when the ability to produce force goes up, heavier weights can be lifted at all speeds, from the fastest speed on down.
This is why the power clean makes the deadlift go up and the deadlift contributes to the power clean.
The weight that can be used for a heavy power clean for most athletes is the correct weight to use to improve force production. it is heavy enough to have to pull hard and by its very nature cannot be done without explosion.
[/quote]
I didn’t mean strength was the number one priority followed by speed, rather I just meant to list them. As you stated if I had to choose between the two, I would also say speed is the more important factor.
Just as one needs to develop a well rounded mma game though, one should also strive to be a balanced athlete, ie strength, speed, conditioning, flexibility ect.
I should have also probably noted that whenever load you are lifting , always try to accelerate the bar as quickly as possible. I know you can’t really move a load close to your max quickly, but as long as the intent is there you will positively influence your RFD.
Yea i understand you weren’t prioritizing them… that was just a point i was making, and providing some background for. Like you said, it’s all about RFD though
So sento guy wanted me to edit a post how bout another post.look over to the left thats me on the left and look i have wrestling shoes on so what, no that guy on the doesnt teach wrestling he teaches wing chun matter a fact hes yip man’s nephews son so what, i may never or be better than bruce lee or whoever else he taught.look at my shirt its dark green actually its sweat some guy posted in his classes they huff and puff and there muscles burn during krav maga class well i hope any class you take that happens thats nothing unique to krav maga.
what i do and who i am is not important what’s important is you train hard in whatever you choose , if you think your style to me its system is better than another which everyone believe s than go challenge other systems and win and if you win so what its the man not the style[system] it does i hope give you reactions that work that hel you win iit does im hopin give you theory that will help but without you its nothing .
i could go on and on on weakness of other systems like boxers cant kick wrestlers can only wrestle one person jiu jitsu guys take you down while 5 other guys are stompiin your head out wing chun guys weakness is there back and ground that why i take combat submission wrestling ,or krav magas a big salad bowl mixed together and the lack off mastery leads to sloppy mechanics you can be a master of everything , tae kwon do guys can kick your head off but will never hit you cuz they train to miss i took it for 5 years unfortunately hapkido throws dont work or akido dont work unless somebody’s cooperation .
some guy named sifu on here at T-Nation does karate how bout sensi ass, groin kick are predictable like soccer kicks come on i kick to the chode bet you wouldnt predict that ass, krav maga taught to police and israel s army so what , wing chun taught to navy seals so what, only kids do karate and tae kwon do so what ,everyones got to be a badass, why am i blogging i should be training i should post this in every combat sports blog,cuz this what everybody s argues ate about when they should be training.
why kick to head of a standing opponent when your foot is closer to the knee and your hands are closer to their face , how bout i throw a haymaker at your foot, thats wing chun principle , box a fighter fight a boxer, i could go on forever and ever i still didnt get everything off my chest.
that was not 4 this blog
what the shit does that even mean 
just getting my point across to some weak fighter tellin everyone in the blog krav maga would beat down anyone, i wasnt payin attention where i was at after i read it. just started typing;}