'How to Train' Questions

howie424 · November 6, 2008, 6:09am

I have about 10 weeks until I want to start doing MMA classes. What can I do to prepare myself? I want to put on about 10-15 pounds first and some strength and of course condition myself

Xen_Nova · November 6, 2008, 7:06am

You want 15lbs of muscle in a little over 2 months? Oh and you want to do conditioning work too?

goooooooooooooood luck…

Are you a completely new lifter?

apbt55 · November 6, 2008, 9:31pm

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Kataklysm wrote:
Well this is a good opportunity to ask questions to you pro’s without creating a new thread.

Assuming I lift 3 times a week, is it a good idea to do conditionning work on every day that I don’t train or should I always schedule a rest day? I have solid recovery as far as nutrition and supplementation, could be better sleep-wise but still decent.
How long should a good conditionning workout take? I usually go for about 15-25 minutes depending on my exercice selection. Barely rest at all, most of my workouts are circuits of explosive moves (plyo pushups, sledgehammer, tire flips…) combined with high speed mobility work (skipping rope, punch-out drills, sprints, ect.)
Should I be doing steady rate cardio at all? I’m thinking it probably doesn’t translate too well on the mat but is there any reason I should be jogging?

Thanks alot

^^this is what I meaned by informed questions, at least give the guy answering you something to work with not “dude i wanna be badass…what do i do?”.

Have a scheduled recovery day (if not DAYS), depending what you’re doing in the gym you should consider adding in some sort of barbell or dumbbell complex that also hits either your strength endurance or power endurance needs. It’s largely individual and you need to find out what works for you and gives you peak performance.

Generally speaking you can go hard for a few weeks with minimal rest, then take it slow for 2-3weeks then go hard again. But you still need at least ONE day where you fucking chill

2)Sounds spot on to me. Outside of other little shit, drills, prehab/rehab, stretching or wtfever, your conditioning work shouldn’t last must longer than your “fight time” will (ifyou’re doing one balls out circuit like that).

If you already have a good aerobic base, you can keep it up through various means. Not necessarily just jogging. Get a heart rate monitor, learn your aerobic range, and shadowbox staying in the aerobic range for 20-30min, it will:

A) improve your technique B)Drill your technique C) improve aerobic base & provides all benefits of aerobic exercise D) easier on your joints

On the otherside, there’s a reason nearly every single champion does some form of roadwork. It toughens you mentally, it’s refreshing, it keeps your bodyweight down, it sparks your appetite… the benefits are numerous. Too many guys poo-poo steady state cardio without thinking about it outside of their science notebooks.

Again it’s highly individual, I would encourage you to add in one day of it and see how you feel for a few weeks, then add in another. I wouldn’t advocate more than 3 days per week…

three is getting to be too but has benefits depending on your goal, two is pretty ideal depending what else you have going on, 1 might be all thats necessary for most people who are doing various other forms of conditioning.

Then again, thaiboxers run twice a day everyday. 99% of champion boxers run everyday. There has to be something to it.

[/quote]

For Muay Thai we don’t do road work. More Banana bag work or sparring strategy, or things like that where you switch your pace and use technique.

But this might be just me too I absolutely hate running and have no cartilige in either knee.

Xen_Nova · November 6, 2008, 11:14pm

Guess it depends where you train the Thai’s run twice a day. Personally I feel like running doesn’t do shit for me. But thats probably because i fucking hate it.

apbt55 · November 7, 2008, 5:48pm

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Guess it depends where you train the Thai’s run twice a day. Personally I feel like running doesn’t do shit for me. But thats probably because i fucking hate it. [/quote]

Agreed, my aerobic condition come from doing a 1hr and 15 minute muay thai class and then an 1hr 15 minute BJJ/Grappling class back to back 3 days a week.

Then I lift for pure power once a week, and heavy or explosive circuits twice a week, with one full sparring session a week, which will usually last about an hour.

The only reason I see to run is if someone has a gun or is stealing my stuff, but then I’d probably just use my gun.

My muay thai instructor is not a typical muay thai person though, he was seal, who primary worked in weapons SO.

We use a lot the straight line power philosophy, not some of the lighter guy muay thai. don’t check kicks step straight into it so you can attack an block simultaneously. We also are taught not to throw your traditional round house kicks, again straight line philosphy. Knee straight up the middle to hide the kick the open your hips and drive your shin straight the person trying to break whatever part of them you hit.

WWe also incoporporate a lot of boxing, dirty boxing, not typical muay thai punches. And no drag foot, a sprinter stance always ready to drive foward through your oponent.

But I don’t see alot of this in newer fighters, most of them their stand up is sloppy and inefficient. They disengage rather than block or slip. Especially a lot of the fighters I am seeing in the UFC.

But I am more of a stand up fighter it comes natural to me, once I’m on the ground I need to think.

Xen_Nova · November 7, 2008, 8:43pm

So. Basically it’s not muay thai

Djwlfpack · November 7, 2008, 10:35pm

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Guess it depends where you train the Thai’s run twice a day. Personally I feel like running doesn’t do shit for me. But thats probably because i fucking hate it.

Agreed, my aerobic condition come from doing a 1hr and 15 minute muay thai class and then an 1hr 15 minute BJJ/Grappling class back to back 3 days a week.

Then I lift for pure power once a week, and heavy or explosive circuits twice a week, with one full sparring session a week, which will usually last about an hour.

The only reason I see to run is if someone has a gun or is stealing my stuff, but then I’d probably just use my gun.

My muay thai instructor is not a typical muay thai person though, he was seal, who primary worked in weapons SO.

We use a lot the straight line power philosophy, not some of the lighter guy muay thai. don’t check kicks step straight into it so you can attack an block simultaneously. We also are taught not to throw your traditional round house kicks, again straight line philosphy.

Knee straight up the middle to hide the kick the open your hips and drive your shin straight the person trying to break whatever part of them you hit.

WWe also incoporporate a lot of boxing, dirty boxing, not typical muay thai punches. And no drag foot, a sprinter stance always ready to drive foward through your oponent.

But I don’t see alot of this in newer fighters, most of them their stand up is sloppy and inefficient. They disengage rather than block or slip. Especially a lot of the fighters I am seeing in the UFC.

But I am more of a stand up fighter it comes natural to me, once I’m on the ground I need to think.[/quote]

I wouldn’t call this Muay Thai. More like MMA-based stand up, which there’s nothing wrong with at all.

apbt55 · November 7, 2008, 11:53pm

No it is, it is directly from Master K.

He holds the record for most elbow knock outs in Thailand.

From what we are taught there are two styles, one more adapted in Holland, which we train and the other more popular here in America.

But yes my Kru also was a grand champion in Tae Kwan Do, a competitive boxer and a brown belt in BJJ.

But our Muay Thai was very tradition based.

But he liked to take peoples strengths and emphasize combinations or fighting strategy to use those strengths.

I am good with close counter punches and short punches, especially a straight right, so alot of my sparring was either not being able to strike but not running, or only being able to throw a straight right from any position or angle.

I loved this style of muay thai especially once we learned how to start using some of the flashy tae kwan do style kicks in real life combinations or even donkey kicks of an elbow in the clinch.

apbt55 · November 7, 2008, 11:58pm

I must confess though I took some time off, had a bicep cut off the bone with an elbow, re attached, and reconstruction of my right knee all in the past 8 months, get to start again on the 17th.

Roundhead · November 10, 2008, 10:36am

Quick training question- Ferruggia recommends three lifting sessions and three-four conditioning sessions a week, on top of classes. If the classes include a hefty period of conditioning or sparring, should this count as one of the 3 or 4 conditioning sessions?

3rdegreebyrne · November 10, 2008, 1:09pm

[quote]Roundhead wrote:
Quick training question- Ferruggia recommends three lifting sessions and three-four conditioning sessions a week, on top of classes. If the classes include a hefty period of conditioning or sparring, should this count as one of the 3 or 4 conditioning sessions?[/quote]

I think you have to play it by ear - if its too much tone it down. A lot of times less in more - even in combat sports. I don’t really know anything about Ferruggia but just because he spouts out some random number of workouts to perform doesn’t really mean anything.

If your doing your “classes” with any kind of intensity then you they should probably count them as conditioning. Lets say your training 5 days a week for skill (which should be the minimum) I couldn’t imagine adding 7 extra workouts to that (4 conditioning and 3 lifting sessions). Thats 12 workouts a week, unless your on gear or are an elite level athlete (or both) that kind of a program probably will burn you out pretty quick.

CaliforniaLaw · November 11, 2008, 4:00am

Why do you care what he says?

apbt55 · November 11, 2008, 9:42pm

[quote]Roundhead wrote:
Quick training question- Ferruggia recommends three lifting sessions and three-four conditioning sessions a week, on top of classes. If the classes include a hefty period of conditioning or sparring, should this count as one of the 3 or 4 conditioning sessions?[/quote]

soundslike fight prep, or we are talking about someone who literally only fights for a living.

Roundhead · November 11, 2008, 10:26pm

Well I care because I am a newbie and he is an expert, and I try to learn from people who know more than I do!

It is clearly too much for a newbie, just wondering if it is an optimum level to build up to- I’m guessing from your responses that no, it isn’t!

Xen_Nova · November 12, 2008, 12:41am

honestly I’d have to see what he wrote to get the context. But I’d go with what 3rdDegree said.

Dont worry about that shit too much and fight at your level.

CaliforniaLaw · November 12, 2008, 12:49am

[quote]Roundhead wrote:
Well I care because I am a newbie and he is an expert, and I try to learn from people who know more than I do!

It is clearly too much for a newbie, just wondering if it is an optimum level to build up to- I’m guessing from your responses that no, it isn’t![/quote]

Well, why is he an “expert”? Because he says so? How many UFC champs has he trained? Or just UFC fighters in general?

I like his stuff, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t consider him an expert. He’s just a guy trying to figure things out.

And, yes, that’s probably too much volume. Train MMA hard for six months without steroids and then tell me if you can do those workouts in addition to training.

3rdegreebyrne · November 12, 2008, 1:30am

Ya honestly, and I used to be guilty of this myself, people often times over think these elaborate training plans with mesocycles, ramping phases, conditioning, bodyweight blah blah blah - for like 6 months into the future. Then they do the workouts for the first week and then can’t lift their arms the next week to actually follow the progression they setup - and then they scrap the whole thing.

I think training needs to be evaluated on a week to week basis, taking into consideration how long out from a fight someone is, weakness - both technical and physical. Taking into consideration over training, working in flexibility and soft tissue work. If your not on gear its really hard to make it to more than like 9 sessions a week before your body starts to give out. You can have a general outline, particularly if you know when your fighting next, but don;t go overboard.

Side note, I think this thread would serve its purpose much more efficiently if we differentiate between the weekend warrior and the budding fighter. Re-reading some old posts I made on this thread - I was talking about the budding fighter while the people I was responding to were probably referring more to the weekend warrior.

3rdegreebyrne · November 12, 2008, 1:43am

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:

In addition to this with good technique, you rarely need to be operating at more than say 20% to make a technique work properly, or to “cruise” through certain movements (BECAUSE YOUR TECHNIQUE IS EFFICIENT ENOUGH) and only go BANG 100% at the moments you choose.

Your ‘gas tank’ will be full because you never expend more energy than you need to. But if for instance you need to push hard to win a round or something you have a vast reservoir to tap into. [/quote]

Just re-read this and would like to add, from my boxing experience. I know a lot of extremely fit guys who I’ve gotten in the ring with, but were new to the sport and even though our conditioning was comparable they gassed out way before me. Here’s why - if you look at a beginner in boxing when he puts his hands up, its like hes constantly holding the middle portion of a shrug. His movements are choppy, his foot placement is awkward, he lacks fluidity.

When fighting someone with experience you can see his shoulders are relaxed, his punches crisp (hes not trying to punch through you, or push you away with his punches) he doesn’t utilize a lot of extra movement, and his footwork is very efficient. He could smoke a pack a day and still not gas before you because he’s hardly expending any energy. Plus it’s so disconcerting when your going all out, and the dude your fighting is breathing like he’s sitting by the pool and moving around you like a flamingo dancer. Finally when your gassed and frustrated, he throws that 100% super sayin type shit and your running for cover ready to throw in the towel. In conclusion technique before much of anything else.

ChenZen · November 12, 2008, 5:15am

From RossTraining…"In the past few years, I?ve noticed a common theme emerging amongst many athletes and exercise enthusiasts. Day after day, more and more people seem to believe that they must follow a specific system EXACTLY as it is presented. Perhaps it is something they find in a book, DVD, website, or a combination of each. These people become so dedicated to a single training system that it isn?t uncommon for them to spend hours and hours defending their ?way? of training.

Never before have I seen so many people care so much about what someone else wants to do with his or her time. There have been some truly epic (and nasty) discussions on even my own message board, where different folks spend all day arguing over different strokes.

I believe it was Mark Twain who said there is more than one way to skin a cat (meaning there is more than one way to get what you want).

Twain was clearly a wise man, yet why is it so difficult for some people to abide by his simple advice? Does it really bother you to see someone do things differently than you? Why spend so much time worrying about what or why someone else chooses to do what they want to do? Did it ever cross your mind that different people have different interests and opinions?

Fans of the old Dirty Harry (Clint Eastwood) movies will appreciate his quote below.

?Opinions are like assholes, everyone has got one? -Dirty Harry

Does anyone ever really win an online debate? How are online debates scored? Does the force with which you bang on your keyboard equate to effective aggressiveness? Does post count on a message board account for extra points on the scorecards? Or perhaps the number of 3+ syllable words included in a single response? Are style points added up for effective sarcasm?

Give me a break! I know WORLD champion fighters who couldn?t tell you the difference between periodization and a quadricep. They couldn?t win an online debate with an orangutan, but they could kick the asses of most who are much craftier behind the keyboard. They have better things to do than argue with someone who trains differently. Their sole concern is improving their own ability, using those methods that work best for them specifically (News Flash: what works for one may not work for another).

So, the next time you feel inclined to slug it out with your keyboard, why not simply worry more about yourself instead? Why not focus on REAL results in the competitive arena with real (not make believe) athletes?

When I?m working with a fighter, the only competitors that we are concerned with are those standing across the ring from us in the opposing corner. The athletes don?t bang it out on a message board. They don?t have time for such nonsense. Their fights are packed with real punches, real blood, and real pain."

3rdegreebyrne · November 12, 2008, 5:56am

[quote]ChenZen wrote:
From RossTraining…"In the past few years, I?ve noticed a common theme emerging amongst many athletes and exercise enthusiasts. Day after day, more and more people seem to believe that they must follow a specific system EXACTLY as it is presented. Perhaps it is something they find in a book, DVD, website, or a combination of each. These people become so dedicated to a single training system that it isn?t uncommon for them to spend hours and hours defending their ?way? of training.