I hang out a lot with a married lesbian couple who are really badass: both very physically fit and strong, both in high-earning jobs, both have good values and ethics.
I feel like they are the “right” kind of people for me to be friends with. The qualities they value in me are the ones I’m proud of and want to keep developing : physical fitness, career, personal integrity.
Guess what I’m saying is that I do feel a network is very important, but that none of the things that are important to me personally are male-specific.
What I would value even more than a network would be a mentor. Like a father figure - my own Dad died 25 years ago but I guess this probably is true for lots of adult men - the older I get, the more I realise the value of the wisdom that comes from life experience.
No, but I would like to develop a network of individuals who understand what it is to be a man. To shoulder that burden of performance. To be the nature counterbalance to their wives’ nurture. To understand that the only way to get anywhere in life, is to know that no one gives a shit about your problems and no one’s coming to help. To understand the balance between masculinuty and assholishness. To hold others accountable and be accountable to others.
I don’t see a woman having these traits. Can they? Sure, i just haven’t seen it.
I would be thrilled to find such an individual. I’ve found a few on this site whom carry traits i wish to emulate.
In general, I agree that the application of alpha is retarded, or at least misguided.
But you’re contradictory here. Alpha is an incredibly violent concept and in its true application only the strongest maintain the status.
Say, for example, the system of laws we are all protected and/or bound by didn’t exist and we all lived communally but with the force of nature. It would take half a second to coerce Bill Gates to hand over his fortunes. Guy couldn’t hold on to shit. And it would be people like the SEALS who take it. You’re confusing alpha with in charge.
There are lots of ways to get laid. Manipulative persuasion is one, and kind of slimy. If you have to project to get it, you’re getting laid but you’re kind of weak and slimy.
I’m 6ft 240 lbs and in leaner years was around 225. I’m married and faithful now but never really saw that coming until it did and I can’t remember how many women I fucked. Because it was too many to try to keep score. And there were plenty where no names were even exchanged. They even initiated in some cases. So we can’t live each others lives, but being athletic absolutely makes things easy. Men puff up as they come down halls, or melt down and coo almost. It’s weird because you’re just minding your own business. There is an extension of respect outside of a given scenario. Then you have the fat fucks who get automatically defensive for no reason. I’m not sure what this is psychologically but it probably harkens back to a more primal time where alpha ruined the day over systematic procedure. All those women you fucked may have gone with the flow, but they do want the taller and muscular guys for a more primal breeding style of fucking, at least subconsciously. I can promise you that.
In the end, get in where you fit in. If it’s with a group of manipulative, slimy fat asses then go be a booger. I don’t think that’s what the OP wants.
And your organized crime comparison is dumb. They’re willing to commit crimes and use violence to subjugate others, so what? In some parts of the world, we are not only allowed but empowered to fight back. I live in Texas. Guess whose head is turning in to wall paint if they come in to my business demanding protection money? Who is alpha in that scenario? The winner? The aggressor? Or the guy with something to protect that the aggressor wants?
Honestly, and I mean it in the most respectful way possible, cut out that man stuff. Are you looking for friends? Politically like minded individuals? Or business people? Because’s there a distinction.
At the risk of sounding weird, especially in a thread where people are piling on a raging pedo - I’m wealthy. Probably not Bauber level wealthy but I could take a five year sabbatical before worrying about negative cash flows and loss of assets.
And out of all the people I’ve worked with as a business owner, literally no one seriously lifts weights. I’ve met some great, fun people in the gym, through judo and BJJ but not a single one I’d do business with. If anything, I’ve became extremely adept at very politely turning down hare brained business schemes. Are these people I’ve met great friends? Fuck yes. Would I do any business activity with them? Fuck no.
I have literally nothing in common with the people I’ve benefited most financially in business. Don’t get me wrong, they’re professional, trustworthy, diligent and most importantly honest but besides professional talk, after “how are the kids” there isn’t much, if anything, personal to talk about.
Implicit level of trust, professionalism, meeting deadlines and complementary businesses interests are more important than hobbies and political opinions.
And if you really want to filter people based on interest besides work, than Crossfit is a great idea.
Oh and one super useful heuristic, at least in my opinion - if someone is using the word “legal” a lot, whether they’re talking about sex, relationships, business, work, whatever - run, run away ASAP.
Unless it’s a conversation with an actual lawyer, nothing good ever came out of a situation where it was claimed unprompted that someone/something is “legal”.
Alphas of the past were fat from drinking wine and eating meat while the chad gladiator slaves ate barley and veggies and fought to the death for their fat slovenly aplpha betters. Just as the US military does now for bankers, titans of industry and wall street.
The fat guy eating grapes was the alpha in roman times. The pencil necked autist who has hundreds of billions is today. The gladiator was beta then. The navy seal is beta now. One calls shots, one follows orders.
Everyone in here is beta, because if they were alpha they would be billionaires, not posting on tnation.
Bill gates can’t fight. Hes so high value he could hire an entire private army. He and other elites generally control western states through influence and power. So these people are defacto the masters of the US empire.
Similarly the industrialists controlled the british empire. None of them were tough. Tough guys generally are the slave class sent to fight in foreign wars for a pittance. Its why there is an entire propaganda system to get poor white and black people to go die in iraq etc. The navy seal is the lowest of the servant class. The elites are the masters of violence, they are the queen. Soldiers are pawns.
Physical strength has never been part of hierarchy climbing. Look at who gains power throughout time, its never the best warriors of the society, there are of course exceptions, but by and large it is the smartest, most anti social or most pro social who climb the ranks. Outliers like Genghis khan were exceptions, but they were not only physical specimens and great fighters, but also extremely capable and smart people off the battlefield.
The best example is chimp hierachy, our closest relative. Those who gain prime position through being bigger and stronger almost never last, they are killed by the collective in short order. Pro social chimps who get there through collaboration last the longest and they have stable reigns. Even in ancient times, the 7 foot chad was a frontline soldier. The people in power were not usually there because of physical attributes. Nor combat skills.
Physical ability is important for gaining status between low status people. This is typically because lower status people need physical protection because they lack the resources to gain protection for themselves and their family.
Imagine a scenario in which the least successful, worst looking, shittiest attitude-having dude in a room is yelling at other dudes saying “you’re all beta”.
Now you know what you look like in this thread to the rest of us.
I’m actually tempted to get into a discussion with a probable sex offender over nutrition and training of Roman gladiators and legionaries because he got a thing or two right in a sea of wrong.
I don’t think someone has to be a billionaire or necessarily fill a certain stereotype to earn my respect or be “alpha” (term used loosely). People on this site who motivate and inspire me to stay consistent and hit everything I do hard and with intentionality are people who I respect and who are “alpha” to me (again, term used loosely).
You’re still confusing in charge with alpha though. At any given time Gates and others like him could have everything they own stolen by the very people protecting them, and there isn’t shit they could do about it. They’re allowed to be in charge of their fortunes through a system of law and procedures most of us adhere to and are willing to support and uphold. This is a complexity outside of alpha, which is where using alpha at all gets weird. Bill Gates is not “alpha”. He’s a nerd in charge of a software company.
I’m not going to go through all of history poking holes for you, but I would suggest George Washington was pretty tough. Lincoln too, for a variety of reasons but especially as it relates to this conversation because he allegedly had an enormously successful wrestling legacy, prior to UIL rules. Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S Grant, Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders legacy, Joan of Arc, Genghis Kahn… hell even Adolph Hitler. Plenty of people with direct or indirect military and combat violence experience have risen to the top of their respective spheres because of it, not in spite of it.
And gentlemen’s sports often include fencing, wrestling, classical boxing and a litany of other strength and athleticism based events that can be found in top tier prep schools and private universities of the elites.
You’re arguing two things:
Strong people can’t be successful or leaders because nerds are exclusively, which is demonstrably untrue if you look around
Wealthy power elites do not value strength, violence or athleticism. Also demonstrably untrue as a universal statement. There just happen to be some very weak wealthy people in the mix. Largely legacy family heirs, though the generations who built their wealth were likely pretty cunning, cutthroat and tough by any standard.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to rail against, but it is possible to have a network of highly successful individuals who happen to be athletically inclined.
Pretty common actually. I interact with executives from medium to large enterprises on a regular basis, and the vast majority have athletic hobbies and value strength quite a bit. It’s a trait they’re drawn to as an exhibition of power.
The exception tends to be where you would expect. Software especially. Then again, old Mark Fuckerburg is a competitive bjj guy, and practices spear throwing.
And he’s always in the “secret elite control cabal” conspiracies, so.
Classical boxing is 100% falling out of favor due to concerns surrounding head trauma. Boxing is dying in America, it’s dying in Australia, it’s dying out in Europe etc.
BJJ is exploding in popularity, but I doubt it’ll reach mainstream status amongst adults due to the VERY high injury risk associated with the sport. Over time, as more become aware of the risk of stroke (cartoid or vertebral artery dissection) associated with repeated blood chokes I reckon BJJ will wane in popularity.
Wrestling is awesome, but how many long term wrestlers still have healthy knees? At a wrestling gym I saw people dropping out from knee and shoulder injuries (dislocations, bursitis and rotator cuff tears) left and right!
I have nothing else to add… Boxing and wrestling are awesome sports. The more dangerous a sport is, the more fun it tends to be.