How Much Did Boyer Gain?

I don’t think that’s really the case. Arnold would only be on cycle in the build up to the show and would come off the rest of the year and was clearly a lot smaller. He also gained size into 1974 over previous years. He probably could’ve been even bigger in 1975 if he didn’t have one foot out the door already.

Casey also admitted to taking huge amounts of steroids, like grams. It more comes down to him losing the weight in the accident, dieting even more off and just regaining it in a few weeks. He didn’t even make it back to his Mr America body weight, and wasn’t nearly as lean.

On a side note, I don’t think that bodybuilders of 70’s were inherently stupid training 2-4 hours a session 5-6 days a week if they understood that they could achieve same (or better) results shortening their training time in half or even more. Prize money was small (if any at all), modeling business almost non-existent (except for gay modelling, but that’s another story), most of bodybuilders were broke and had to have multiple jobs in order to make ends meet So, if they could train less, they could spend more time on other activities, including getting a decent paying jobs etc. They didn’t do so, and I don’t think this is due to narcissism or similar reasons. Yes, there was a camaraderie and everybody was looking what others are doing, but I don’t trust in such collective stupidity in a competitive environment. Just doesn’t make sense to me. Instead, they were in harmony with their bodies and understood what type of training worked better for them, and that a more intense, short, few exercises type of HIT regime is not the best way to train (for majority of them). Even genetic freaks like Sergio Oliva didn’t train in HIT manner (aside from the times he visited Jones); he trained like other bodybuilders with multiple exercises, not-to-failure, more congestion/pump style, short range reps etc.

I would be very skeptical accepting the claims of bodybuilders from 70’s that they were off steroids off-season and were adding them only when (read, last 2-4 months before) preparing for competition. The way how most of them looked those years off-season tells me a lot. Besides, there is a splendid 3 volume book written by Randy Roach called “Muscle, Smoke and Mirrors” which gave a lot of food for thought on this subject too. For instance, a detailed description of Pete Grymkowski’s anabolic usage off-season and prior to competition and the fact that he was simply following others gives a clear picture of the actual reason behind the enormous strength and size of bodybuilders of that area.

To quote from Volume 2 (pages 259-): "In 1969 Peter Grymkowski entered the AAU Junior Mr. USA and was somewhat perplexed to say the least. There was no confusion over his very low placing, the reasoning was quite evident. To Peter, however, the mystery was why everyone was so huge except for him. Born on March 26, 1946, the 23 year old Rochester native began immediately asking the other athletes the questions he hoped would lead him to find out what he was doing wrong. It was still the era where the first thought that came to a young bodybuilder’s mind was that he wasn’t training enough, but he soon learned that he was and probably more. He found that bodybuilders to be fairly tight lipped regarding their steroid use at that time.

It was actually a weightlifting friend, Nick Castiglia, who told him shortly afterwards that the bodybuilders and lifters were using anabolic steroids in the form of Dianabol… Where many bodybuilders were still denying drug use or conceding to very small dosages n the early 1970s, Pete Grymkowski admitted to taking 2,000 mg of both oral and injectable steroids daily that he would ramp up to peak at an amazing 5,000 mg just days before a contest… By mid-1977, Pete was maintaining a daily dosage of both oral and injectable anabolic steroids at a level of 3,000 mg per day. This itself was quite high and there were most likely others taking this amount.

However, few if any were going where Pete went when he took his dosage up to a whopping 10,000 mg daily three weeks out from a competition where he held it right up to contest day… Along with his 10,000 mg of anabolic sterods, Pete would also use a thyroid preparation for accelerated fat loss. Compounds such as Cytomol and Proloid were used to stimulated thyroid activity and Pete preferred the latter of the two… Pete would also increase dramatically his use of the anti-estrogenic compounds Clomid and Nolvadex when he ramped up his steroid cycle… At a height of 5’10" Pete Grymkowski reached a massively defined weight of 246 lbs when he took the Heavyweight Class of AFAB/IFBB Mr. America on June 18, 1977.

Based on a height and weight ratio Pete was definitely one of the most massive bodybuilders of that era… Pete went onto compete three more times before retiring from competition. He had become a travelling laboratory carrying suitcases full of pharmacological compounds and apparatus to these later events. He would come to the show days before and lock himself in his hotel room where he set up shop. He would emerge at contest time several pounds heavier and shredded. At the 1979 IFBB Pittsburg Grand Prix, Wayne DeMilia got his first real glimpse at top pro bodybuilding. It was only DeMilia’s second year promoting shows and he conceded to being still somewhat naive concerning the extent of drugs in the sport. He had walked into Pete Grymkowski’s hotel room and recalled, “I thought I was back in college in chemistry class”. The book then follows with an interesting story about Don Howorth getting into trouble and entering Vacaville prison in Vacaville, CA, where he was approached by inmates for advice on how to build muscle. Quote: “Don refrained from bullshit and told them what much of the bodybuilding field was doing to optimize size”.

1 Like

I actually tried to replicate it several times: first time many years ago back in my home country at the gym which didn’t have any Nautilus machines. Then several years ago here in US when I collected a line of various Nautilus machines. I did something similar (slight modification) a year ago when I replaced by Nautilus machines with MedX. The results were basically the same with nothing to brag about. I understand that doing the same things over and over again (and expecting different results) is the sign of insanity, but since I vary my training often I decided to come back to “sweet HIT stuff” and check if better machines and better regulation of stress/recovery could be the answer. Apparently, it was not.

I remember early on seeing pictures of a young Grymkowski and thinking he had some of the best genetics I’d ever seen and for all the crap he was taking he never got much bigger than those other guys did at the time. I’d have thought with all those different drugs he’d balloon up like Ronnie Coleman but he didn’t ?
Scott

He had some long clavicles, that’s for sure.

1 Like

I think Boyer did a good job at about 20 lbs in 26 weeks. In fact his results aren’t too dissimilar to the 23.4 lbs Viator achieved in 1977 (documented on pages 54 - 55 of the Bodyfat Breakthrough) and both did better than Arnold in 1975.

Screenshot 2021-10-19 13.01.07

1 Like

Honestly, I don’t see any substantial muscle gains in those videos of Mentzer training Boyer which cover quite a significant period of time. Sometimes, Boyer looks a little bit better (probably, more tanned, or the lighting is better), but I don’t see a 20 lbs gain there.
I also looked at pages 54-55 of “The Body Fat Breakthrough” book, which, strange enough, have different pictures of Casey: in my book published by Rodale in 2014, Casey is shown from the back.
A respective sub-chapter on page 53 is named “The Genetic Freak” which explains such impressive results even when regaining muscles. “Arthur Jones often referred to Viator as a genetic freak in that he inherited exceptionally long muscle bellied and short tendon attachments throughout his body. These long muscles and short tendons provided him with the potential to build a huge amount of muscular size and strength in his forearms, upper arms, chest, lower back, thighs and calves. Furthermore, he could do that quickly”.
Unfortunately, few of us (if any) are blessed with the same genetics as Casey.

IMO, any proof of the benefits of a weight training program that uses an exceptionally gifted genetic freak who has allowed atrophy of muscle mass before the start of the experiment is utterly useless to Joe average.

We had a fairly genetically gifted guy who came to the gym and grew like a weed for about 8 weeks. When he hit a plateau he lost interest and not be seen. He would show up about 9 to 12 months later, a mere shell of his former self. He would put on muscle at a rapid rate. You could see he grow every week.

It seemed like all new members to the gym would ask what his secret to muscle gains was. It was extremely clear it was muscle memory. And of course, once he hit a plateau he lost interest again, only to appear once again a year, or so later. More new members were in awe.

I saw that muscle memory is phenomenal !!

1 Like

I agree… he could have just gotten on a cycle and just puffed up a bit. If his genetics are good, the 186 could be off-cycle and then he just hops on some dbols and voula.
Its not like he actually looks like grown muscle. He just looks fuller.

All other things being equal, the average Joe will not lose a lot of muscle when he stops exercising even for a year or two and he would probably not gain much resuming training (unless s/he has good genetics, remaining potential for muscle growth and is able to introduce new challenges to his training). On the other hand, those genetically-blessed guys coupled with PEDs will lose a lot during a layoff, but also can gain a lot when they resume training (especially if PEDs are brought into equation as well). Those visitors of the old Dr. Darden forum may remember me posting photos of Larry Scott in his prime and after two years of no training.


Or you can watch a hilarious video with “downsized” Kevin Levrone here:

1 Like

Interesting! Even a “gifted” dude could only make straight progress for 8 weeks before things slowed down.

Thanks @borisv,

This question is worthy a thread on it’s own. What you are presenting is how important PEDs are to the equation of building muscle.

Sometimes this gets downplayed. I have myself trained with enhanced individuals - and seen what happened both in terms of development and during their layoffs. I also realize many chose to quit training, since they couldn’t get the same reward as a natural athlete.

Amazing that Larry Scott as a 156lb natty could have 20" arms and compete at over 200lb
with PED’s

I doubt that Larry Scott ever had a legitimate 20 inch arm. Back in those days about the only guy to have 20 inch arms was Sergio.
Scott

From experience I would estimate that Scott would weigh around 175 lbs drug free. At 156 lbs he’s completely untrained. My best guess is he lost about 30 lbs from stopping the drugs and about an additional 20 lbs from not training for a couple of years. And yes… he almost certainly never had 20" arms. The question to ask is how quickly could he have got back to about 175 lbs without the drugs and would he have matched Viator or Coe in those regains? We’ll never know!

Larry Scott was not even close to the genetic freak class that Casey was in so there’s no way he could do as Casey had done. Yes, Larry had long bicep muscles but little else was exceptional .
Scott

probably wasn’t 20" (weider exaggeration) however 18" arms from 175lb guy (jeff60) is still mighty impressive! we have all seen the pictures, magnificent arm development

Leroy Colbert supposedly had 21" arms

and he was known to train full body 3x/week

[quote=“average_al, post:12, topic:275671”]
In any case, in 1979, he published a book with the title: “Steroids: An Adjunctive Aid to Training”. I haven’t seen the book, but from the title, I assume it promotes the use of steroids.

== Scott==
Anyone seen this book by Boyer Coe and does anyone know about Don Howorth going to prison as mentioned before in an earlier post?
Scott