[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< I would say that I “couldn’t” stop lifting weights if I didn’t already know how those words would be accepted by dummies listening who would then jump on internet forums and label me as having a disorder because of it. >>>[/quote]
Of course you do realize that the statement about skinny psychologists making themselves feel better would be ammo for some as well.
I can hear it now… [quote] Dr. Dumbass says: “Classic case of denial. He sees others, especially those who are trying to help him as the ones with the problem”[/quote]
[quote]Sliver wrote:
Do most developed people tear their muscles, and train through it anyway because they had to finish their set? Do most developed people quit school because they couldn’t arrange their class schedule around their gym time? Do most developed people have kids that never see them because they spend all day in the basements training? Do most developed people lose their job because they had to be at the gym?
Because these are the kind of people I’m talking about. If this is the kind of thing that most developed people do, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree.[/quote]
What does any of that have to do with the guy in the video? If someone, AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT TO YOU BEFORE, is damaging their own lives or the lives of those around them, THEN it is a problem/disorder. If that isn’t happening, it is NOT. Nothing like that was presented in that video. That means you can NOT diagnose some disorder based on what info was provided. The problem is this word is being thrown at anyone who has the desire to have any sort of extreme physical development beyond what is considered “average”. Being obsessed with it is NOT a disorder.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
<<< I would say that I “couldn’t” stop lifting weights if I didn’t already know how those words would be accepted by dummies listening who would then jump on internet forums and label me as having a disorder because of it. >>>
Of course you do realize that the statement about skinny psychologists making themselves feel better would be ammo for some as well.
I can hear it now… Dr. Dumbass says: “Classic case of denial. He sees others, especially those who are trying to help him as the ones with the problem”[/quote]
That is what makes me skeptical of some of the things I hear about those diagnosed with “disorders” that aren’t even life threatening or destructive. If you analyzed anyone long enough I am sure you could find enough “problems” to label them with something.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sliver wrote:
Do most developed people tear their muscles, and train through it anyway because they had to finish their set? Do most developed people quit school because they couldn’t arrange their class schedule around their gym time? Do most developed people have kids that never see them because they spend all day in the basements training? Do most developed people lose their job because they had to be at the gym?
Because these are the kind of people I’m talking about. If this is the kind of thing that most developed people do, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
What does any of that have to do with the guy in the video? If someone, AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT TO YOU BEFORE, is damaging their own lives or the lives of those around them, THEN it is a problem/disorder. If that isn’t happening, it is NOT. Nothing like that was presented in that video. That means you can NOT diagnose some disorder based on what info was provided. The problem is this word is being thrown at anyone who has the desire to have any sort of extreme physical development beyond what is considered “average”. Being obsessed with it is NOT a disorder.[/quote]
And as has been pointed out to YOU before I’m not the one who made the diagnosis. His shrink did. And if the doctor made the diagnosis, then his compulsion to lift must have been damaging. Either to him, or the people he knew.
And as has been pointed out to YOU before I’m not the one who made the diagnosis. His shrink did. And if the doctor made the diagnosis, then his compulsion to lift must have been damaging. Either to him, or the people he knew.[/quote]
How else can it be written other than that the way it was presented is ridiculous to label anything he discussed as being a harmful disorder. Not once in that video does “Ken” state that he visited a psychologist. It was said that he learned of the name of the “disorder” several years ago. NOWHERE was there even a discussion with a psychologist or any discussion about why his desire to be bigger is harmful in any way. The way he spoke was how most serious bodybuilders would speak of how they train only without the “I wish I could be normal” bullshit that allowed him to get on tv.
In other words, as plainly as I can put it, that video was a piece of media crap capitalizing on a hot topic and using “Ken” as the poster boy of it. Nowhere was there any discussion of him actually being diagnosed with a disorder. It simply labeled him as having it…just like they would label most of us who are bigger than average.
I’m not debating the fact that the video sucked. It was a 5 second sound byte not a doctorial thesis. And you should be glad that they chose that neurotic brit Ken. The documentary I saw about this a few years ago had a guy that destroyed so many of his muscles that he couldn’t shake someone’s hand. It made bodybuilders look like child neglecting masochists.
No, they didn’t say he was formally diagnosed with the disorder. I’m just going out on a limb here, and call me crazy, that since they interview him, it would be a given. Listening to the way he talked you could tell someone (much smarter than ken) had at least explained the mechanics of OCD to him.
[quote]Sliver wrote:
I’m just going out on a limb here[/quote]
Which is the whole problem with your argument. As X pointed out, unless you know that these life-destroying behaviors were practiced by the interview subject (which we do not, and in fact what was presented was pretty harmless)then your argument, in relation to this particular documentary, holds no water.
Regardless of this video I can see biorexia as an actual disorder. If you’re so obsessed with getting bigger that you’d take dangerous amounts of steroids (any amount in my opinion) and other drugs to do it that would be a problem.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Sliver wrote:
I’m just going out on a limb here
Which is the whole problem with your argument. As X pointed out, unless you know that these life-destroying behaviors were practiced by the interview subject (which we do not, and in fact what was presented was pretty harmless)then your argument, in relation to this particular documentary, holds no water. [/quote]
It was bad enough for him to want to get help, and that should be bad enough.
[quote]Sliver wrote:
It was bad enough for him to want to get help, and that should be bad enough.
[/quote]
Actually, I never heard him once ask for “help” - he expressed dissatisfaction with his size, and he desperately wants to win a major bodybuilding title, but he never requested a medical professional to help him break his obsession.
Shit, after watching it again the whole thing is so ambiguous, it could easily be clever editing. It’s the voice over and the psychologist who pump in all the “disorder” talk, while Ken sounds like three quarters of this board. I’m sure my supplement list would seem excessive to some, as would my need to regularly lift - honestly, I’m not trying to say that the issue doesn’t exist, just that what they showed of Ken’s lifestyle was a pretty far cry from insane and obsessive to the point of self-destruction.
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Regardless of this video I can see biorexia as an actual disorder. If you’re so obsessed with getting bigger that you’d take dangerous amounts of steroids (any amount in my opinion) and other drugs to do it that would be a problem.
If you deny that, then you probably have it.[/quote]
Look dude,
Despite our differences in the past I gave you more credit than this whole statement would appear to indicate you deserve.
You just said that any anabolic user as well as anyone who would be so foolish as to disagree with you about this is probably an obsessed “bigorexic”?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
Regardless of this video I can see biorexia as an actual disorder. If you’re so obsessed with getting bigger that you’d take dangerous amounts of steroids (any amount in my opinion) and other drugs to do it that would be a problem.
If you deny that, then you probably have it.
Look dude,
Despite our differences in the past I gave you more credit than this whole statement would appear to indicate you deserve.
You just said that any anabolic user as well as anyone who would be so foolish as to disagree with you about this is probably an obsessed “bigorexic”?
[/quote]
My opinion on whats dangerous obviously differs to yours. There are certainly dangerous amounts of growth hormones and steroids agreed?
So taking dangerous amounts to get bigger is a problem. If its such an obsession that you take drugs to reach your goal…I would say that qualifies as bigorexia.
Interesting discussion… When I started training I was a skinny 175lbs. I’d always been skinny as a kid and fairly unsporty. After about five or six years of training, I’m now around 225lbs. However, despite the fact that I’m now quite a big guy I still think of myself as that skinny chap I always used to be.
I get very ratty if I start missing gym sessions and I do try to plan my week around getting to the gym. Even to the extent of making sure there’s a gym in the hotel when I’m planning a holiday… I can see how it could become a major problem for some people.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
<<< Anybody remember when Mohammed Benaziza died? That guy was a walking anabolic chemical experiment. He carried around a black bag of every possible steroid, diuretic and alleged thermogenic known at the time. To read the reports then you would think everybody with arms over 18in. was like this and just hadn’t offed themselves yet. [/quote]
Yeah I remember Benazia, but has anyone seen him in person when he was alive, curious just how freaky was this guy? in pictures he looks pretty good for pro bber but nothing over the top freaky the way they decribe his steroid use that caused his death.
A desire to progress in something that you have a passion for is a disorder? What about those who obsess over watching five TV series episodes a day? Sadly, one of these leads to a healthy and youthful life, and the other is considered “normal”
[quote]kevbo wrote:
A desire to progress in something that you have a passion for is a disorder? What about those who obsess over watching five TV series episodes a day? Sadly, one of these leads to a healthy and youthful life, and the other is considered “normal”[/quote]
Dude, When its an obsession it isn’t exactly healthy. Your family gets neglected, you could turn to dugs, etc, bla, bla. Its a fine line between obsessed with something and being committed to excellence. Something like that, its late I need sleep.
Bigorexia is when you can never be too big or too muscular, with no regard to what most would consider aesthetics.
like Gregg Valentino, altho not everyone would resort to synthol site injections as he did.
guys like this always think that they’re not quite big enough, or that a certain muscle is too small or mishaped, so it’s an endless pursuit for a worped ideal of muscular perfection.
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
<<< There are certainly dangerous amounts of growth hormones and steroids agreed? >>>[/quote]
Agreed, but you defined “dangerous amounts” as “any amount” in your first statement. I believe it’s possible to use gear intelligently where the long term detriments can be largely avoided. Admittedly this doesn’t happen often enough, especially in the pro ranks, but I’m not ready to call “disorder” on anybody who ever uses.
[quote]sumabeast wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
<<< Anybody remember when Mohammed Benaziza died? That guy was a walking anabolic chemical experiment. He carried around a black bag of every possible steroid, diuretic and alleged thermogenic known at the time. To read the reports then you would think everybody with arms over 18in. was like this and just hadn’t offed themselves yet.
Yeah I remember Benazia, but has anyone seen him in person when he was alive, curious just how freaky was this guy? in pictures he looks pretty good for pro bber but nothing over the top freaky the way they decribe his steroid use that caused his death.[/quote]
I don’t remember who it was for certain, maybe LaBrada, but I read an interview years ago with a fellow competitor who was with him in his hotel room like 12 hours before he died and it was this person who said Benaziza,s collection of drugs and his black bag scared even him.
He also said the guy had the hardest muscles he had ever heard of that night, but that he was cold and clammy. Somebody else with a better memory must remember this interview. I think it was in Kennedy’s mag.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
<<< There are certainly dangerous amounts of growth hormones and steroids agreed? >>>
Agreed, but you defined “dangerous amounts” as “any amount” in your first statement. I believe it’s possible to use gear intelligently where the long term detriments can be largely avoided. Admittedly this doesn’t happen often enough, especially in the pro ranks, but I’m not ready to call “disorder” on anybody who ever uses.[/quote]
Well thats just my stand on drugs. Its not a whole lot different than taking recreational drugs in my opinion. You’re right, it doesn’t automatically label someone with a disorder. Not what I was thinking.
You probably can take intelligent safe amounts of gear, I’m not too sure. It has it’s risks like any drug, so it’s up to the user to decide weather they’re a risk or not.