How Many Have Bigorexia?

Training Bodybuilding
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[quote]Sliver wrote:
Do not straw man me. I am talking about this one person and him alone. This is the second biggest reason the video sucked. They do absolutely NOTHING to describe the mechanics of his disorder. They lead the audience in the completely wrong direction glossing over significant details and doing almost nothing more then describe what he felt and did, without any reason why. I bet the doctor they interviewed explained the disorder in great detail, but they edited it out and grabbed the sound bites they wanted. The guy in the video on the other hand did have a working knowledge of the mechanics of his disorder. And you can tell by listening to him talk. Count the number of times he used the words obsession and compulsion. Hell compulsion was the FIRST word he went for to describe it.

And there is another bigger difference between this guy and Vic richards. Where in the interview does the first guy ever say he enjoyed lifting? That it makes him feel good? He doesn’t. And THAT is the biggest difference.[/quote]

Straw man you? This term is being used in the most lame ways by some of you. There was no straw man argument thrown at you at all. You need to learn to comprehend better. It doesn’t matter that you were talking about this one man alone. I just gave you a video with a very well known bodybuilder who said damn near the SAME FUCKING THING. You have about equal info on both as far as their personal lives. That means if you believe this guy has a mental disorder, then you obviously would have to think the same of Vic Richards because you claimed the disorder is that they can’t stop lifting if they wanted to. That’s not a strawman, scarecrow, that’s logical thinking.

You don’t have any more facts about the guy in the original video. Do you honestly think he “hates” to workout? If he is as gullible as he seems, he used words like “obsessive” and “compulsive” because he was TOLD that was what he was by his “psychologist”. He also said he had no idea it was a disorder and didn’t know what it was until he was told.

You have no basis to jump to any conclusions about this man’s mental health from the information provided. You have sound bites and partial info showing a guy who is apparently so “ashamed” of his body that he is wearing a tank top and revealing most of it on national tv. Yeah, real ashamed and insecure. Just admit you don’t have enough to go on and stop trying to diagnose this guy as having a disorder.

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Bottom line is any body who is REALLY into ANYTHING will be viewed as obsessive by those who don’t share that passion.

What if someone really enjoys, say, collecting coins and spends a large portion of his time and money hunting the ones he has a special affection for?

I’ve seen shows about this where people will go to auctions and meets all over the place because they can’t stand the idea that these coins are out there and they don’t own them. Do these people have “coinerexia”? Or “rare currency disorder”?

Or is it that they just a have a personal passion that only others who share it would understand?

In the case of physique pursuits it’s not even possible to make truly significant progress without behaving in such a way that outsiders will view you as over committed at best and downright obsessive at worst. You do have to live THAT differently than they do and they will not get it.

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[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
Problem is the dude isnt happy with himself and thinks he will be once he wins a major title. I think you have to be happy with who you are regardless.

Its like being unhappy and trying to add a girlfriend to your life to make you happy.
[/quote]

The thing is, if it’s the lack of a girlfriend that’s making you unhappy, getting a girlfriend would go a long way to alleviating that problem.

There are people who think they suck, simply because they exist. They think that nothing they ever do is right, nothing they ever achieve is enough. These people need to be told to “be happy with who you are.”

But that does not mean that all desire to improve one’s self or one’s situation is bad, wrong, or harmful. Just the opposite, in fact. Society depends, absolutely depends, on people who are dedicated to being the absolute best at what they do. If I’m dying, I want the obsessed, excellent doctor, the one who stays up at night thinking about this stuff, the one who eats and sleeps and breathes medicine, not the doctor who’s “happy with who he is, regardless.” If I’m falsely accused, I want the lawyer who graduated first in his class, not the lawyer who “lightened up” and “didn’t take things so seriously.”

Our physical goals are a somewhat different story, but the principle still stands. I don’t want to be Mr. Olympia, nor do I want to compete in international powerlifting competitions, but when I’m putting together a program that will help me meet my goals, I’m surely going to learn from the men that do.

I’ve been fat pretty much since I was born, and I’ve got the self-image issues that go along with it. One day, I decided to change all that, so I did the reading, manned up, and did what I had to do. I’ve gone from a high of 275 down to 211, and I should be down to 200 or so in a couple of weeks. From there, I’ll take stock of my situation and see if I want to cut a little more, or chill out for a few weeks before going into a clean bulk.

A lot of people have told me that I’ve gone far enough, that I’m too obsessive, that I’m too strict. These people all mean well. They are also all wrong. My obsession, such as it is, has led to me looking better and feeling better, and it will lead me to living longer. Sure, I had value as a human being before, worth as an individual, and all the other stuff we tell the kid that gets picked on by the rest of the class. But I’m a better human being now. More energetic. More social. Happier. And every single person that told me to chill out, slow down, take it easy, and stop obsessing, weather they knew it or not, was trying to deny me that happiness.

There are real people with real image problems. “My God, I weigh 95 pounds, I’m such a fat pig.” “Good Lord, my arms are only 22 inches around, I’m a twig.” Everyone posting to Fantasy Feeder that isn’t a troll. But there are also a lot of people who are so conditioned by our culture, so concerned with Johnny’s self esteem and making sure Susie isn’t left behind, that they have become afraid of success. Anyone who strives, anyone who excels, must be broken, because a well adjusted person will settle comfortably into mediocrity.

Zen teaches us to let go of ambition and desire, since it is desire that leads toward suffering. I’d suck at Zen.

44

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sliver wrote:
Do not straw man me. I am talking about this one person and him alone. This is the second biggest reason the video sucked. They do absolutely NOTHING to describe the mechanics of his disorder. They lead the audience in the completely wrong direction glossing over significant details and doing almost nothing more then describe what he felt and did, without any reason why. I bet the doctor they interviewed explained the disorder in great detail, but they edited it out and grabbed the sound bites they wanted. The guy in the video on the other hand did have a working knowledge of the mechanics of his disorder. And you can tell by listening to him talk. Count the number of times he used the words obsession and compulsion. Hell compulsion was the FIRST word he went for to describe it.

And there is another bigger difference between this guy and Vic richards. Where in the interview does the first guy ever say he enjoyed lifting? That it makes him feel good? He doesn’t. And THAT is the biggest difference.

Straw man you? This term is being used in the most lame ways by some of you. There was no straw man argument thrown at you at all. You need to learn to comprehend better. It doesn’t matter that you were talking about this one man alone. I just gave you a video with a very well known bodybuilder who said damn near the SAME FUCKING THING. You have about equal info on both as far as their personal lives. That means if you believe this guy has a mental disorder, then you obviously would have to think the same of Vic Richards because you claimed the disorder is that they can’t stop lifting if they wanted to. That’s not a strawman, scarecrow, that’s logically thinking.

You don’t have any more facts about the guy in the original video. Do you honestly think he “hates” to workout? If he is as gullible as he seems, he used words like “obsessive” and “compulsive” because he was TOLD that was what he was by his “psychologist”. He also said he had no idea it was a disorder and didn’t know what it was until he was told.

You have no basis to jump to any conclusions about this man’s mental health from the information provided. You have sound bites and partial info showing a guy who is apparently so “ashamed” of his body that he is wearing a tank top and revealing most of it on national tv. Yeah, real ashamed and insecure. Just admit you don’t have enough to go on and stop trying to diagnose this guy as having a disorder.[/quote]
When he accused you of pulling a straw man I think he might be referring to “You have made it seem like a negative that someone feels a desire and need to do that. Why?”
As you are “potentially” setting him up for such a tactic, logically speaking. :slight_smile:
It is just probably not what you meant.

45

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Bottom line is any body who is REALLY into ANYTHING will be viewed as obsessive by those who don’t share that passion.

What if someone really enjoys, say, collecting coins and spends a large portion of his time and money hunting the ones he has a special affection for?

I’ve seen shows about this where people will go to auctions and meets all over the place because they can’t stand the idea that these coins are out there and they don’t own them. Do these people have “coinerexia”? Or “rare currency disorder”?

Or is it that they just a have a personal passion that only others who share it would understand?

In the case of physique pursuits it’s not even possible to make truly significant progress without behaving in such a way that outsiders will view you as over committed at best and downright obsessive at worst. You do have to live THAT differently than they do and they will not get it.[/quote]

I honestly think the real “disorder” lies in those that threatened by someone who takes their body to a physical extreme in bodybuilding. It isn’t the guy with the 21" arms that has the problem if other people spend that much time trying to find fault with it.

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[quote]DanErickson wrote:
When he accused you of pulling a straw man I think he might be referring to “You have made it seem like a negative that someone feels a desire and need to do that. Why?”
As you are “potentially” setting him up for such a tactic, logically speaking. :slight_smile:
It is just probably not what you meant.[/quote]

He did make it seem like it is a negative that someone feels the need to work out and make it a significant part of their life. Unless you believe he didn’t, that couldn’t possibly be a “straw man”.

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Synthol freaks, anyone?

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When I’m large enough to have Bigorexia I’ll let you know.

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I’m half way through Think and Grow Rich. Good book. Hill says we need to reach the point of obsession to attain our goals. This dude has a goal and needs to be obsessed to get there.

He should stop getting all bummed out about not reaching his goal and enjoy the journey.

Thats the only real problem.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< I honestly think the real “disorder” lies in those that threatened by someone who takes their body to a physical extreme in bodybuilding. It isn’t the guy with the 21" arms that has the problem if other people spend that much time trying to find fault with it.[/quote]

Yeah, in just about any, ANY possible thing that can be named there will be a few goofballs who go off the deep end and the media will grab the ones they think will make the best story and spin it as if it were the thing itself and not the individual that’s the problem.

I’m not saying that’s this guy, but bodybuilders have always been fair game for this as far I can remember.

Anybody remember when Mohammed Benaziza died? That guy was a walking anabolic chemical experiment. He carried around a black bag of every possible steroid, diuretic and alleged thermogenic known at the time. To read the reports then you would think everybody with arms over 18in. was like this and just hadn’t offed themselves yet.

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[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Synthol freaks, anyone?[/quote]

Even that. That’s usually just some guys trying to turn heads. Akin to having 6 pounds of hardware hanging through your face.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Synthol freaks, anyone?

Even that. That’s usually just some guys trying to turn heads. Akin to having 6 pounds of hardware hanging through your face.

[/quote]

I actually do think synthol use to the degree we’ve seen on some of these people is a true disorder…because they actually think other people are fooled. They believe people are staring at them because of how hugely muscular they are and not because they look like infected water balloons.

That takes some real neurological maneuvering to allow yourself to not see how stupid that looks. I don’t think it’s “bigorexia” at all though. I think it’s just another bland case of plain old stupidity.

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I hear about bigorexia from time to time from various outlets and I am tired of it. I feel like it is just a way for people who are too lazy to change their bodies to justify the “weird” lifestyle led by those who are motivated. As was stated above, obsession with anything is viewed by outsiders as weird.

Unless someone’s life or health is being seriously negatively affected, then I find it very hard to believe they have anything resembling the bigorexia bullshit.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Synthol freaks, anyone?

Even that. That’s usually just some guys trying to turn heads. Akin to having 6 pounds of hardware hanging through your face.

I actually do think synthol use to the degree we’ve seen on some of these people is a true disorder…because they actually think other people are fooled. They believe people are staring at them because of how hugely muscular they are and not because they look like infected water balloons.

That takes some real neurological maneuvering to allow yourself to not see how stupid that looks. I don’t think it’s “bigorexia” at all though. I think it’s just another bland case of plain old stupidity.[/quote]

If “plain old stupidity” is a “true disorder” then I’m with ya. I really think the vast majority of these so called “disorders” as a whole are nothing more than “plain old stupidity”, ego gone awry, or old fashioned self image issues in new fangled packages.

As soon as you stamp a clinical sounding label on someone’s personality quirk, manifestation of stress or even criminal tendencies it immediately relieves them of responsibility because, hey, it’s a condition. I can’t help it.

There are people with legitimate, diagnosable maladies, but nowadays every damn thing that anybody does is some kind of “disorder”.

55

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Synthol freaks, anyone?

Even that. That’s usually just some guys trying to turn heads. Akin to having 6 pounds of hardware hanging through your face.

I actually do think synthol use to the degree we’ve seen on some of these people is a true disorder…because they actually think other people are fooled. They believe people are staring at them because of how hugely muscular they are and not because they look like infected water balloons.

That takes some real neurological maneuvering to allow yourself to not see how stupid that looks. I don’t think it’s “bigorexia” at all though. I think it’s just another bland case of plain old stupidity.

If “plain old stupidity” is a “true disorder” then I’m with ya. I really think the vast majority of these so called “disorders” as a whole are nothing more than “plain old stupidity”, ego gone awry, or old fashioned self image issues in new fangled packages.

As soon as you stamp a clinical sounding label on someone’s personality quirk, manifestation of stress or even criminal tendencies it immediately relieves them of responsibility because, hey, it’s a condition. I can’t help it.

There are people with legitimate, diagnosable maladies, but nowadays every damn thing that anybody does is some kind of “disorder”.[/quote]

I have to agree with you. Anorexia is a disorder because people can die from it. They can starve themselves to death and that is the end result of being anorexic. Being someone who simply wants bigger muscles than most people can’t possibly fall under the same category unless someone’s life is at risk. This fails to qualify…but it must make a whole lot of skinny or overweight psychologists feel better about themselves.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
<<< but it must make a whole lot of skinny or overweight psychologists feel better about themselves.[/quote]

LOL, no doubt. There’s probably more to that than a joke too.

On a related note, when someone puts their muscles under unfamiliar stress, dares to eat well and get enough rest they get bigger and stronger over time.

This is a natural process that folks are better off for having done. To push your potential takes commitment. At what pint did this become bad.

My God, what would the contemporary world have said about a guy like Edison?

57

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Anorexia is a disorder because people can die from it. […] Being someone who simply wants bigger muscles than most people can’t possibly fall under the same category unless someone’s life is at risk.[/quote]

Unfortunately (for those of us that lift), many will think our lives are at risk because, on top of lifting and controlling what we eat, we take dangerous supplements like protein powders, creatine, amino acids, fish oils and vitamins.

I’m not joking. Just yesterday I had my mum preaching to me not to take vitamins “and all that other crap” because a doctor said on the radio that a study has shown that people who take them are 16% more likely to die. People fear what they don’t understand, and if people that do understand use this knowledge to improve themselves, then they will be envied and vilified by the ignorant.

If somebody accuses me of bigorexia, my reply will be “I don’t have bigorexia, I just have bigger goals than you.”

58

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Straw man you? This term is being used in the most lame ways by some of you. There was no straw man argument thrown at you at all. You need to learn to comprehend better. It doesn’t matter that you were talking about this one man alone. I just gave you a video with a very well known bodybuilder who said damn near the SAME FUCKING THING. You have about equal info on both as far as their personal lives. That means if you believe this guy has a mental disorder, then you obviously would have to think the same of Vic Richards because you claimed the disorder is that they can’t stop lifting if they wanted to. That’s not a strawman, scarecrow, that’s logical thinking.

You don’t have any more facts about the guy in the original video. Do you honestly think he “hates” to workout? If he is as gullible as he seems, he used words like “obsessive” and “compulsive” because he was TOLD that was what he was by his “psychologist”. He also said he had no idea it was a disorder and didn’t know what it was until he was told.

You have no basis to jump to any conclusions about this man’s mental health from the information provided. You have sound bites and partial info showing a guy who is apparently so “ashamed” of his body that he is wearing a tank top and revealing most of it on national tv. Yeah, real ashamed and insecure. Just admit you don’t have enough to go on and stop trying to diagnose this guy as having a disorder.[/quote]

God damnit. First off. I’m not the one who diagnosed the bigorexia guy, his shrink did. And of course they said they couldn’t stop lifting. When they said it they meant two completely different things, because the reasons why they lift are completely different.

You think that just because someone isn’t flicking light switches on or washing their hands over and over again that they don’t have OCD? OCD can manifest itself any number of ways. And for some their light switch is a barbell.

There is already PLENTY of literature out there about it just do a google search for christ’s sake. Or to quote wikipedia’s sparse page on Muscle dysmorphia “Muscle dysmorphia is fairly rare and simple obsession with working out or bodybuilding does not fit the criteria of a body dysmorphic disorder.”

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[quote]Sliver wrote:

God damnit. First off. I’m not the one who diagnosed the bigorexia guy, his shrink did. And of course they said they couldn’t stop lifting. When they said it they meant two completely different things, because the reasons why they lift are completely different.

You think that just because someone isn’t flicking light switches on or washing their hands over and over again that they don’t have OCD? OCD can manifest itself any number of ways. And for some their light switch is a barbell.

There is already PLENTY of literature out there about it just do a google search for christ’s sake. Or to quote wikipedia’s sparse page on Muscle dysmorphia “Muscle dysmorphia is fairly rare and simple obsession with working out or bodybuilding does not fit the criteria of a body dysmorphic disorder.”[/quote]

“Bigorexia” isn’t a universally accepted “mental disorder” and wouldn’t even be part of a diagnosis unless someone’s life was at risk. It is pop terminology for the most part. OCD is not a severe mental disorder. Most of the people in medical schools, dental schools, law firms and many other higher levels of education are obsessive compulsive.

That doesn’t mean they need to change who they are or what they are doing unless it is harming themselves or others. You are trying to throw a diagnosis at this guy that isn’t warranted based on the half assed info given in that video.

I would say that I “couldn’t” stop lifting weights if I didn’t already know how those words would be accepted by dummies listening who would then jump on internet forums and label me as having a disorder because of it.

As you have been told before, even with a fucking video for emphasis, most of the people who actually look very developed would probably say the same thing considering it is a significant part of their lives. That doesn’t make it a disorder.

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Do most developed people tear their muscles, and train through it anyway because they had to finish their set? Do most developed people quit school because they couldn’t arrange their class schedule around their gym time? Do most developed people have kids that never see them because they spend all day in the basements training? Do most developed people lose their job because they had to be at the gym?

Because these are the kind of people I’m talking about. If this is the kind of thing that most developed people do, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree.