Numbers drop if they were lifting totally raw. No straps or belt even and without ridiculous arches?
Say if someone benched 800 at a meet in full gear with an arch and super wide grip, how would tat translate with a slight arch, no gear and narrower grip?
How would wsbb wide squat transfer to non geared athletes?
i think nobody can tell that.
Do geared lifters never cross over into and lift raw? I just don’t get the point in using suits and arches to lift more if you are lowering two inches to your chest and wearing enhancing gear. Did anyone see that girl who bench presed like 240 but her ROM was about 2 inches. I just don’t get it.
Would Olympic lifters be stronger in the back squat for example if they competed against powerlifters in that one lift with no gear because you see olympic lifters squatting massive weight without even so much as a belt.
I get why you would label me a troll because I am a weak fuck and it probably seems like I am being rude to people much more accomplished than me. But if powerlifting is about strength why not drop the suits and crazy arches and lift lower but real numbers?
If I bench with a massive arch and wide grip I can add alot more weight onto the bar, but I don’t because it does not make me stronger.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
let me just end this here…lol [/quote]
I get that accusation because I am a weak guy and it probably sounds rude to be asking these questions about much more accomplished people.
I just don’t get te point of wearing enhancing suits and benching two inches to your chest. That is not real strength, otherwise you wouldn’t wear it if it did not help you.
For example Olympic lifters who back squat hundreds of pounds ass to grass in training without even a belt seems far more impressive than back squatting with double plyo suits to parallel with a stance so wide it can only be done in a suit.
Same when you see people arch so high they only lower the bar two inches, do they think they benched that weight or do they know they added lots of weight because they only had to lift it two inches? I can add alot more weight when I arch, but I don’t do it because whats the point?
^Is that more impressive than if she benched 100 lbs with a slight arch?
In advance.
I am not trying to shit on powerlifting in any way
I am weak skinnyfat and can only bench my bodyweight for one repetition
I have never competed in any sort of weightlfting event
I do not think I could bench 500lbs if only I had a suit and high arch
Strength that seems most impressive to me:
Ok I’ll play…
First. What ‘we’ do in training is vastly different than you see in PL competitions. MOST training is done raw. The rulebook says that one has to have their shoulders and ass on the bench. Where the chest is is wherever you can get it to. If I were a fat ass with a hyooge gut and alligator arms with an arch I’d prolly have a 3" bench stroke and could potentially press the shit out of some weights. I am not that guy so I don’t worry about such things.
Do you not realize that in a geared meet, everyone is geared? It’s not like raw guys are going up against those “cheating” gear whores… a meet is where one displays his or her strength. ALL the ‘tricks’ are used to get and move the most weight on the bar. It’s kind of like swimming. Does a swimmer show up and swim in his meet with a tank top and board shorts? fuck no, he shaves his whole body and wears a speedo to minimize drag and all that stuff. Unless he’s in a tank top and board short league. lol
It’s a totally different sport. do what YOU feel driven to do. I’ll remind you that in all sports the gear has evolved to make one better and faster. Why is lifting the only sport where people have the red ass with the gear? Don’t use it if you don’t want to, DON’t arch if you don’t want, to It’s that easy.
I like mtn biking. I have a single speed fully rigid frame. No shocks, no nothing but a frame, wheels and brakes. That’s about a raw as it gets in the bike world. I also have a 5" fully suspended bike hydraulic shocks, 30 freaking gears. It’s like a Motorcross bike that I peddle. Each serves it’s own role in my riding but in the end it’s still nme peddling the machine.
Back on topic. I bought a bench shirt ones and I couldn’t even bench the same weight I could raw. I had to learn the shirt and how to lift in it. MUCH like I have to learn how to move the maximum poundage raw by working on my form and what works best for me.
yep, impressive lifts… so if that same guy was wearing a deadlift suit and pulling 100# more, it suddenly would be less impressive? It’s still the same guy kicking ass… I don’t see the problem.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Ok I’ll play…
First. What ‘we’ do in training is vastly different than you see in PL competitions. MOST training is done raw. The rulebook says that one has to have their shoulders and ass on the bench. Where the chest is is wherever you can get it to. If I were a fat ass with a hyooge gut and alligator arms with an arch I’d prolly have a 3" bench stroke and could potentially press the shit out of some weights. I am not that guy so I don’t worry about such things.
Do you not realize that in a geared meet, everyone is geared? It’s not like raw guys are going up against those “cheating” gear whores… a meet is where one displays his or her strength. ALL the ‘tricks’ are used to get and move the most weight on the bar. It’s kind of like swimming. Does a swimmer show up and swim in his meet with a tank top and board shorts? fuck no, he shaves his whole body and wears a speedo to minimize drag and all that stuff. Unless he’s in a tank top and board short league. lol
It’s a totally different sport. do what YOU feel driven to do. I’ll remind you that in all sports the gear has evolved to make one better and faster. Why is lifting the only sport where people have the red ass with the gear? Don’t use it if you don’t want to, DON’t arch if you don’t want, to It’s that easy.
I like mtn biking. I have a single speed fully rigid frame. No shocks, no nothing but a frame, wheels and brakes. That’s about a raw as it gets in the bike world. I also have a 5" fully suspended bike hydraulic shocks, 30 freaking gears. It’s like a Motorcross bike that I peddle. Each serves it’s own role in my riding but in the end it’s still nme peddling the machine.
Back on topic. I bought a bench shirt ones and I couldn’t even bench the same weight I could raw. I had to learn the shirt and how to lift in it. MUCH like I have to learn how to move the maximum poundage raw by working on my form and what works best for me.
yep, impressive lifts… so if that same guy was wearing a deadlift suit and pulling 100# more, it suddenly would be less impressive? It’s still the same guy kicking ass… I don’t see the problem. [/quote]
As I say man I didn’t mean anything disrespectful but rather just wondering if people consider themselves as strong as they are in gear. If you can’t bench your max lift raw that you did in gear do you count the assisted lift as your actual strength?
When did the use of suits etc emerge? Would you consider being the strongest assisted powerlifter in the world to be more impressive than the strongest RAW powerlifter?
As you can probably tell I am really new to lifting in general and just wanted to ask questions really.
Cheers.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
yep, impressive lifts… so if that same guy was wearing a deadlift suit and pulling 100# more, it suddenly would be less impressive? It’s still the same guy kicking ass… I don’t see the problem. [/quote]
NO NO NO NO. This was not what I meant. I guess my point was why want to lift another hundred that you can’t lift without a suit. Why not just focus on what you can actually lift with just your body?
Not that it is less impressive.
[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
yep, impressive lifts… so if that same guy was wearing a deadlift suit and pulling 100# more, it suddenly would be less impressive? It’s still the same guy kicking ass… I don’t see the problem. [/quote]
NO NO NO NO. This was not what I meant. I guess my point was why want to lift another hundred that you can’t lift without a suit. Why not just focus on what you can actually lift with just your body?
Not that it is less impressive.[/quote]
this is just one of those things that you have to try before you get it. I once thought gear was dumb too. Then, my hips were always hurting from squatting 2 times a week. A buddy told me to try some squat briefs. I got pair of single ply and they made my squatting feel really nice. They let me lift more weights and I don’t feel beat up. Since I ain’t beat up, I can lift more often, which makes me suck less. When I suck less, I look better, feel better, and I like that.
Lifting in gear is a challenge in and of itself. Once you master the lifts as best you can the next phase, if you chose to take it, is with gear. Some people compete raw and geared. It’s just fun both ways. Kind of like strippers with big natty tits or big fake tits. They are all fun, just a bit different. In the end we have to decide what’s best for us and what we want to do as individuals.
LOL@ being butt hurt over a 13 y/o girl benching more than you.
[quote]Curls4Girls wrote:
LOL@ being butt hurt over a 13 y/o girl benching more than you.
[/quote]
What does butt hurt mean?
Didn’t read all the posts, but if you’re just starting out benching your own weight, maybe you shouldn’t worry about how much gear will help a lifter, ect. Just follow a 5x5, and eat at a surplus, and cross the gear bridge when you come to it. One more thing don’t call yourself weak, it’s a confidence flaw, that does no good, and a HUGE turnoff for girls, trust me. A novice is a better term.
I lift single ply and train mostly raw. My numbers are posted in my federation as equipped numbers as we have both raw and equipped. My numbers are to qualify for championship meets not to impress some jojo in a gym. I typically won’t discuss any of it with anyone who doesn’t compete because it’s meaningless even to people who train the big three but don’t compete.
Worry less about what others do and more about what you do.
geared lifting is simply a different sport from non-geared. Different techniques are employed to achieve different results. There’s no real reason to compare geared lifting and raw lifting.
As to a few questions you asked: Would I be more impressed if that girl bench pressed 100 lbs with no arch? Fuck no. I can guarantee you she reps 100 lbs with no arch without a problem. That seems obvious to me. In fact I’m sure she can hit 150+ with no arch. The fact that this isn’t obvious to YOU shows how ignorant and inexperienced you are.
Your original post can elicit a more interesting conversation, although that conversation has been had a hundred times on these boards. Technique changes for geared vs raw lifters. The ultra wide squat is done to maximize the benefit of the squat suit, particularly out of the hole. A raw lifter would not see the same benefit, and would therefore not likely take the same stance. Same goes for bench press. Stan Efferding, for example, takes a much narrower grip on bench press than most geared lifters.
The strength of geared lifters certainly carries over to raw lifting to a high degree. The poundages that they can handle raw are obviously going to be less than what they can handle with gear, but that doesn’t mean their strength is ‘fake’ in any way. As previously mentioned, most training is done raw.
Just think of geared lifting as a niche sport. It is a particular way to compete and display a combination of technique and strength. Just like any other sport, it’s not for everyone. I love watching basketball. I think soccer is boring as hell. But I still respect soccer players for their athletic achievements. They’re different sports, I don’t have to like both. You don’t have to prefer geared lifting, but that doesn’t make it a lesser form of competition.
[quote]sgdiablo wrote:
Didn’t read all the posts, but if you’re just starting out benching your own weight, maybe you shouldn’t worry about how much gear will help a lifter, ect. Just follow a 5x5, and eat at a surplus, and cross the gear bridge when you come to it. One more thing don’t call yourself weak, it’s a confidence flaw, that does no good, and a HUGE turnoff for girls, trust me. A novice is a better term. [/quote]
Dude I am a master at turning girls off. If I needed your advice on the subject I would ask. As soon as they see me giving my mother a foot massage they get all weird.
[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
[quote]sgdiablo wrote:
Didn’t read all the posts, but if you’re just starting out benching your own weight, maybe you shouldn’t worry about how much gear will help a lifter, ect. Just follow a 5x5, and eat at a surplus, and cross the gear bridge when you come to it. One more thing don’t call yourself weak, it’s a confidence flaw, that does no good, and a HUGE turnoff for girls, trust me. A novice is a better term. [/quote]
Dude I am a master at turning girls off. If I needed your advice on the subject I would ask. As soon as they see me giving my mother a foot massage they get all weird.[/quote]
Sounds like you did…maybe some therapy too
