What’s up guys just wanting to know what do you guys think is the best for ramping up weights for powerlifting. whether it be Korte’s stuff, Sheiko, or Westside let it be known here. By the way, catchy title huh?
Well, the “Westside” method has worked very well for my training partner and I. I’m not going to say we do an exact Westside training, because we don’t, but we do 2 ME days and 2 DE days. We use bands and chains a lot, and always mix up our ME exercises and our supplemental stuff. Since starting to train for powerlifting in June I have put 85lbs on my squat (300-385), 100lbs on my bench (185-285) and 120lbs on my deadlift (315-425).
I attribute it to always trying to push max or sub-max weights as well as the use of chains and bands on my speed days. Plus always mixing up exercises ensures the gym doesn’t get boring.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
What’s up guys just wanting to know what do you guys think is the best for ramping up weights for powerlifting. whether it be Korte’s stuff, Sheiko, or Westside let it be known here. By the way, catchy title huh?[/quote]
Find a gym with strong people. Training with people who are strong will change your attitude and expectations. So if you really want to get strong, find a powerlifting gym because its the attitude and intensity of your training partners that matters most.
[quote]vandalay15 wrote:
Find a gym with strong people. Training with people who are strong will change your attitude and expectations. So if you really want to get strong, find a powerlifting gym because its the attitude and intensity of your training partners that matters most.[/quote]
I agree 100% get in with ppl DOING it that are trainging NOT lifting there is a difference and once youve been subjected to it for a while It will pay off.
Phill
vandalay15 ur on the money. i remember at 150lb trying to deadlift 200 and i remember thinking it was out of my league.
a BIG guy came to me and said “if u wanna reach 300+ u gotta get the 200 first”
now i’m like at 345lb
[quote]SprinterOne wrote:
Well, the “Westside” method has worked very well for my training partner and I. I’m not going to say we do an exact Westside training, because we don’t, but we do 2 ME days and 2 DE days. We use bands and chains a lot, and always mix up our ME exercises and our supplemental stuff. Since starting to train for powerlifting in June I have put 85lbs on my squat (300-385), 100lbs on my bench (185-285) and 120lbs on my deadlift (315-425).
I attribute it to always trying to push max or sub-max weights as well as the use of chains and bands on my speed days. Plus always mixing up exercises ensures the gym doesn’t get boring.
[/quote]
If you read most of the stuff at elitefts. , they don’t recommend chains and bands until you have built a decent base of strength first.
No offence, but at your strength levels, you would have probably made the same progress without the bands and chains, and now you won’t get the training effect from them as a plateau buster, that you would have if you hadn’t used them, if you can follow that.
[quote]deanosumo wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
Well, the “Westside” method has worked very well for my training partner and I. I’m not going to say we do an exact Westside training, because we don’t, but we do 2 ME days and 2 DE days. We use bands and chains a lot, and always mix up our ME exercises and our supplemental stuff. Since starting to train for powerlifting in June I have put 85lbs on my squat (300-385), 100lbs on my bench (185-285) and 120lbs on my deadlift (315-425).
I attribute it to always trying to push max or sub-max weights as well as the use of chains and bands on my speed days. Plus always mixing up exercises ensures the gym doesn’t get boring.
If you read most of the stuff at elitefts. , they don’t recommend chains and bands until you have built a decent base of strength first.
No offence, but at your strength levels, you would have probably made the same progress without the bands and chains, and now you won’t get the training effect from them as a plateau buster, that you would have if you hadn’t used them, if you can follow that.[/quote]
Yesh this is right on. It’s a big mistake to use too complex a method before you need it. The earlier you are in your training career, the less complexity you need to progress…take advantage of it and don’t waste complex training methods; if you ever approach a high level you may wish you still had something new to pull out of the bag.
[quote]deanosumo wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
Well, the “Westside” method has worked very well for my training partner and I. I’m not going to say we do an exact Westside training, because we don’t, but we do 2 ME days and 2 DE days. We use bands and chains a lot, and always mix up our ME exercises and our supplemental stuff. Since starting to train for powerlifting in June I have put 85lbs on my squat (300-385), 100lbs on my bench (185-285) and 120lbs on my deadlift (315-425).
No offence, but at your strength levels, you would have probably made the same progress without the bands and chains, and now you won’t get the training effect from them as a plateau buster, that you would have if you hadn’t used them, if you can follow that.[/quote]
I was going to say the samething. You made good progress, but your starting lifts were so small, anything woould have worked. Maybe you started westside too soon. Bands and chains and you don’t even have a 300 lb raw bench?
All three methods have produced world champions. Who is to say which is the best?
Not to mention there are plenty of other approaches out there, eg Ed Coan, Fred Hatfield etc etc.
Hell, what about Bob Peoples, who used to train deadlift 4-5 days a week in his dirt backyard? Deadlift of 729 lb at 178lb bw ain’t shabby.
I disagree, westside can be good for the following reasons:
1.No boredom, a lot of different exercises
2. Beginners can also get strong with this template, just look at joe Defranco’s clients.
3. When you plateau, choose new exercises.
I agree though that there can be a more simplified version of getting strong for someone at a relative beginner level.
I have followed a few protocols- westside variations, old school periodization, Sheiko, etc. Here’s what I beleive to be key:
-Training with heavy singles, doubles and triples will make you strong.
-Try to be exposive on all your core lifts. I don’t use a DE bench or squat day any more. Rather, I do this on my warm-ups and when I am working up to my heavy sets.
-If you are competing in gear- especially good gear, train in your gear. In my experience, raw lifting has very limited carryover to geared lifting.
-Give yourself a backoff week every 2 to 4 weeks. Even if you don’t feel beat up.
-Choose accessory lifts wisely. Don’t fry yourself doing shit that doesn’t give much in return. This may vary somewhat form lifter to lifter- but personally, I’ve gotten doodly-squat out of overhead pressing, single-leg work.
[quote]SprinterOne wrote:
Well, the “Westside” method has worked very well for my training partner and I. I’m not going to say we do an exact Westside training, because we don’t, but we do 2 ME days and 2 DE days. We use bands and chains a lot, and always mix up our ME exercises and our supplemental stuff. Since starting to train for powerlifting in June I have put 85lbs on my squat (300-385), 100lbs on my bench (185-285) and 120lbs on my deadlift (315-425).
I attribute it to always trying to push max or sub-max weights as well as the use of chains and bands on my speed days. Plus always mixing up exercises ensures the gym doesn’t get boring.
[/quote]
Nice improvements! It seems that you’re doing things right for you.
Roland.
I do not agree that training with people stronger than you will improve your progress. I think my progress is top notch and I train with my wife.
In the past, I have trained with bigger, stronger guys and my gains were no better then, than they are now training with my wife.
It is my intensity that makes the difference, not my partners intensity. I may have misunderstood the point you all were making, so please clarify if I am missing it.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
deanosumo wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
Well, the “Westside” method has worked very well for my training partner and I. I’m not going to say we do an exact Westside training, because we don’t, but we do 2 ME days and 2 DE days. We use bands and chains a lot, and always mix up our ME exercises and our supplemental stuff. Since starting to train for powerlifting in June I have put 85lbs on my squat (300-385), 100lbs on my bench (185-285) and 120lbs on my deadlift (315-425).
I attribute it to always trying to push max or sub-max weights as well as the use of chains and bands on my speed days. Plus always mixing up exercises ensures the gym doesn’t get boring.
If you read most of the stuff at elitefts. , they don’t recommend chains and bands until you have built a decent base of strength first.
No offence, but at your strength levels, you would have probably made the same progress without the bands and chains, and now you won’t get the training effect from them as a plateau buster, that you would have if you hadn’t used them, if you can follow that.
Yesh this is right on. It’s a big mistake to use too complex a method before you need it. The earlier you are in your training career, the less complexity you need to progress…take advantage of it and don’t waste complex training methods; if you ever approach a high level you may wish you still had something new to pull out of the bag.
[/quote]
Here’s what Louie Simmons says on the topic…
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/advanced_system_for_beginners.htm
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
I do not agree that training with people stronger than you will improve your progress. I think my progress is top notch and I train with my wife.
In the past, I have trained with bigger, stronger guys and my gains were no better then, than they are now training with my wife.
It is my intensity that makes the difference, not my partners intensity. I may have misunderstood the point you all were making, so please clarify if I am missing it.
[/quote]
If you’re goals are to get bigger and look good, then it’s not necessary to train with a group of lifters.
However, if your goal is maximum strength, training with a group of strong, experienced lifters is the best way to get there and a common trait among strong lifters.
Maybe you have made good progress training with your wife, and you say its “top notch” but your goals are probably different than someone who wants to be really strong. A lot of this depends on your perception of strength.
[quote]AK47 wrote:
Ramo wrote:
deanosumo wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
Well, the “Westside” method has worked very well for my training partner and I. I’m not going to say we do an exact Westside training, because we don’t, but we do 2 ME days and 2 DE days. We use bands and chains a lot, and always mix up our ME exercises and our supplemental stuff. Since starting to train for powerlifting in June I have put 85lbs on my squat (300-385), 100lbs on my bench (185-285) and 120lbs on my deadlift (315-425).
I attribute it to always trying to push max or sub-max weights as well as the use of chains and bands on my speed days. Plus always mixing up exercises ensures the gym doesn’t get boring.
If you read most of the stuff at elitefts. , they don’t recommend chains and bands until you have built a decent base of strength first.
No offence, but at your strength levels, you would have probably made the same progress without the bands and chains, and now you won’t get the training effect from them as a plateau buster, that you would have if you hadn’t used them, if you can follow that.
Yesh this is right on. It’s a big mistake to use too complex a method before you need it. The earlier you are in your training career, the less complexity you need to progress…take advantage of it and don’t waste complex training methods; if you ever approach a high level you may wish you still had something new to pull out of the bag.
Here’s what Louie Simmons says on the topic…
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/advanced_system_for_beginners.htm
[/quote]
I get the EliteFTS mailer too.
Louie believes in his system and it obviously works great, especially for multi-ply guys. I don’t know that Louie has ever taken a male lifter to train at Westside who couldn’t bench 300 pounds.
You have to think about what you need more. Honing your technique (which really isn’t happening if you use a lot of band tension on DE day,) or making yourself feel special by training w/ bands, chains, boards, releasers and special bars.
It’s true that WSB has taken a lot of guys that weren’t elite and made them so, but these guys were still pretty strong already. We’re not talking about guys like the OP. The overwhelming majority of guys go from weak to pretty strong w/ basic progressive overload training, and developing technique on the three lifts.
The most important thing by far, though, is that whatever kind of training you’re doing, you believe in it.
[quote]vandalay15 wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
I do not agree that training with people stronger than you will improve your progress. I think my progress is top notch and I train with my wife.
In the past, I have trained with bigger, stronger guys and my gains were no better then, than they are now training with my wife.
It is my intensity that makes the difference, not my partners intensity. I may have misunderstood the point you all were making, so please clarify if I am missing it.
If you’re goals are to get bigger and look good, then it’s not necessary to train with a group of lifters.
However, if your goal is maximum strength, training with a group of strong, experienced lifters is the best way to get there and a common trait among strong lifters.
Maybe you have made good progress training with your wife, and you say its “top notch” but your goals are probably different than someone who wants to be really strong. A lot of this depends on your perception of strength.[/quote]
Getting bigger is sweet and all but mainly I want to lift heavy Sh*&. Besides, if I eat the calories, size will come. I’m thinking about trying out Sheiko because of what i have heard about it. Also i don’t have a lot of weight to work with right now so because of the low intensity I can do it.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
AK47 wrote:
Ramo wrote:
deanosumo wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
Well, the “Westside” method has worked very well for my training partner and I. I’m not going to say we do an exact Westside training, because we don’t, but we do 2 ME days and 2 DE days. We use bands and chains a lot, and always mix up our ME exercises and our supplemental stuff. Since starting to train for powerlifting in June I have put 85lbs on my squat (300-385), 100lbs on my bench (185-285) and 120lbs on my deadlift (315-425).
I attribute it to always trying to push max or sub-max weights as well as the use of chains and bands on my speed days. Plus always mixing up exercises ensures the gym doesn’t get boring.
If you read most of the stuff at elitefts. , they don’t recommend chains and bands until you have built a decent base of strength first.
No offence, but at your strength levels, you would have probably made the same progress without the bands and chains, and now you won’t get the training effect from them as a plateau buster, that you would have if you hadn’t used them, if you can follow that.
Yesh this is right on. It’s a big mistake to use too complex a method before you need it. The earlier you are in your training career, the less complexity you need to progress…take advantage of it and don’t waste complex training methods; if you ever approach a high level you may wish you still had something new to pull out of the bag.
Here’s what Louie Simmons says on the topic…
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/advanced_system_for_beginners.htm
I get the EliteFTS mailer too.
Louie believes in his system and it obviously works great, especially for multi-ply guys. I don’t know that Louie has ever taken a male lifter to train at Westside who couldn’t bench 300 pounds.
You have to think about what you need more. Honing your technique (which really isn’t happening if you use a lot of band tension on DE day,) or making yourself feel special by training w/ bands, chains, boards, releasers and special bars.
It’s true that WSB has taken a lot of guys that weren’t elite and made them so, but these guys were still pretty strong already. We’re not talking about guys like the OP. The overwhelming majority of guys go from weak to pretty strong w/ basic progressive overload training, and developing technique on the three lifts.
The most important thing by far, though, is that whatever kind of training you’re doing, you believe in it. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure Dave Tate wrote in a artical that chains and bands should be used by the lifter who has 2-3 years behind him. As you said.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Getting bigger is sweet and all but mainly I want to lift heavy Sh*&. Besides, if I eat the calories, size will come. I’m thinking about trying out Sheiko because of what i have heard about it. Also i don’t have a lot of weight to work with right now so because of the low intensity I can do it.[/quote]
I had fun with the Sheiko routine I did. It was brutal at first, completely unlike the Westside-style plans I was used to. However, your body acclimates to volume in about a week or so. It does a good bit for your raw strength.
The downside was that I was never able to find a way to adapt the Sheiko appraoch to geared lifting. Even if I tuned the percentages down a bit take into account the radical top-end loading you get from lifting in gear, I still could not create a workout that I could remotely complete. I think that the Sheiko routines were probably great for the gear that his lifters were using when these routines were written 10-15 years ago. I would be interested to see what Boris Sheiko is having his lifters do now- now that folks are getting triple digit carryover and are training in their gear.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
Getting bigger is sweet and all but mainly I want to lift heavy Sh*&. Besides, if I eat the calories, size will come. I’m thinking about trying out Sheiko because of what i have heard about it. Also i don’t have a lot of weight to work with right now so because of the low intensity I can do it.
I had fun with the Sheiko routine I did. It was brutal at first, completely unlike the Westside-style plans I was used to. However, your body acclimates to volume in about a week or so. It does a good bit for your raw strength.
The downside was that I was never able to find a way to adapt the Sheiko appraoch to geared lifting. Even if I tuned the percentages down a bit take into account the radical top-end loading you get from lifting in gear, I still could not create a workout that I could remotely complete. I think that the Sheiko routines were probably great for the gear that his lifters were using when these routines were written 10-15 years ago. I would be interested to see what Boris Sheiko is having his lifters do now- now that folks are getting triple digit carryover and are training in their gear.
[/quote]
If you train in the gear all the time, when do you get strong?
We usually save the gear for mini-maxes and meets. That’s what has worked best for the team of guys I lift with.