[quote]monkeyarms wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
do all those who think homeopathy is garbage also think the same thing of acupuncture?
They are considering abolishing acupuncture in California due to all of the fraud.
[/quote]
there will always be frauds in every industry.
i once got acupuncture for injury ramification foot pain/stiffness, neurological impingement pain in back, and neurological impingement pain in shoulder. it did nothing for the back and shoulder, but was awesome for the foot.
this thread actually gave me a headache last nite.
before going to my homeopathist i’d taken different homeopathic remedies, they didn’t work, i thought all homeopathy was dumb, and i knew about the reasons for the scientific community saying homeopathy is a scam.
i then took something that i was told was homeopathic and the results were definately out of my world. so i credited homeopathy, despite my tendency to disbelieve unproven or unprovable or disproven things.
now, ive been seriously considering the fact that i ingested the equivalent of sugar. but i know it will always remain a mystery to me due to the fact that placebo has never been shown to be nearly as powerful as my situation.
if homeopathy is truly a scam then i agree, it is quite a shame that the FDA cracks down on prohormones and the like instead of this elaborate scam.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
monkeyarms wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
do all those who think homeopathy is garbage also think the same thing of acupuncture?
They are considering abolishing acupuncture in California due to all of the fraud.
there will always be frauds in every industry.
i once got acupuncture for injury ramification foot pain/stiffness, neurological impingement pain in back, and neurological impingement pain in shoulder. it did nothing for the back and shoulder, but was awesome for the foot.[/quote]
In this case, the fraudulent claims are being propagated by the state sponsored, California Board of Acupuncturists.
People don’t get hurt by what “alternative cures” do, but by what they don’t do.
In your case, there was nothing life threatening with your foot or back, so it’s worth a shot. But when they start making absurd claims and folks fore-go proven medical treatments for serious illnesses, people can die. That’s where the line needs to be drawn.
To be fair, I have seen studies showing acupuncture has a place in pain management. But it has nothing to do with “meridians” or any of that stuff.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
here’s my story…
[/quote]
Wow. I’m so happy for you. 
[quote]
now, for anybody who will deride true homeopathy without knowing it or experiencing it: i would pity you, but i’d prefer to laugh at your steadfast ignorance as i pass you on the road to where ever it is we’re bound.[/quote]
And I’ll be right there with you, bro.
BTW, your walks in the rain sound lovely! I stayed in Seattle area for 2 weeks a few years ago and loved every minute of it.
[quote]larryb wrote:
You and your mom knew he was taking it. You may have had a more positive and hopeful attitude about his condition during that time, which may have changed his own outlook and perceptions, and reduced his stress levels. Or, it may not have really been a homeopathic preparation. What was the dilution?[/quote]
What? do you think we don’t know what true homeopathy is? Please! My doctor is a former president of the NCH!
The dilution, since you asked, was 30c, if I recall correctly. I was 13 years old; it’s been a coupla years!
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
is “the mind is a powerful thing” news to anybody? i think we all know that, and it seems that people only use that expression when they have no clue how to explain the current topic.
[/quote]
Yup.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
in a nutshell, a homeopathic remedy that cures the sneezes when given to a guy with the sneezes would give people who dont have the sneezes the sneezes.
[/quote]
Like cures like.
[quote]xfrankx wrote:
there is a scientific here in quebec that took millions of em’ homeopathist told him he was going to die, guess what nothing happen. [/quote]
That’s a load of crap.
My son has taken a whole bottle of a remedy before when he didn’t need it. (My bad for leaving it close to his reach.) All he did was prove the remedy. He became a cranky, unhappy little person, whereas 20 minutes before he was happy and fine.
[quote]xfrankx wrote:
there is a scientific here in quebec that took millions of em’ homeopathist told him he was going to die, guess what nothing happen. [/quote]
Well, Jean-Rene Dufort does have a B.sc in biochemistry but he’s more of a journalist now. His stunt proves one thing to me: homeopath believe more in their own medecine than the lay people But all jokes aside, I repeat what I said in my post and what some people didn’t seem to understand: absence of proof is not a proof in itself. I don’t endorse that water memory thing, I don’t think you’re gonna die if you swallow a few bottles of homeopathic treatment. But it DOES work…and not only with that placebo effect opponents to homeopathy are touting around. Logically the argument doesn’t make sense at all. In fact, look at closely, not much arguments make sense from one side or the other, so I say believe in results till proven false. So far, homeopathy as worked for me, and I wasn’t a believer in the first place, so I’ll stick to it.
What I fail to understand is why such a rage to prove something is crap when it gets results? The best thing that can happen is the government take a hand in it and gives a right of practice only to those who have gone to a recognised establishment. That will avoid much of the fraud and false representation that plague any of the medical disciplines, and help people to know what it is and if its good for them.
[quote]monkeyarms wrote:
In this case, the fraudulent claims are being propagated by the state sponsored, California Board of Acupuncturists.
People don’t get hurt by what “alternative cures” do, but by what they don’t do.
In your case, there was nothing life threatening with your foot or back, so it’s worth a shot. But when they start making absurd claims and folks fore-go proven medical treatments for serious illnesses, people can die. That’s where the line needs to be drawn.
To be fair, I have seen studies showing acupuncture has a place in pain management. But it has nothing to do with “meridians” or any of that stuff.[/quote]
im pretty sure the roots and purposes for acupuncture were solely pain alleviation. i just hope that acupuncture doesn’t get taken down with the many frauds who prescribe it for things it can’t do.
Good post, Zen.
[quote]wufwugy wrote:
im pretty sure the roots and purposes for acupuncture were solely pain alleviation. i just hope that acupuncture doesn’t get taken down with the many frauds who prescribe it for things it can’t do.[/quote]
You’re not sure enough, and not correct.
Western medicine has been around for what…100 years? And we think we’re hot sh%t? Come back in 100 years and energy work e.g. acupuncture will still be around in some form (perhaps not needles, but there are many ways to work with energy now).
[quote]ScottL wrote:
wufwugy wrote:
im pretty sure the roots and purposes for acupuncture were solely pain alleviation. i just hope that acupuncture doesn’t get taken down with the many frauds who prescribe it for things it can’t do.
You’re not sure enough, and not correct.
Western medicine has been around for what…100 years? And we think we’re hot sh%t? Come back in 100 years and energy work e.g. acupuncture will still be around in some form (perhaps not needles, but there are many ways to work with energy now).[/quote]
what are you talking about?
besides, mythologically, acupuncture was first learned of when a warrior got struck with an arrow he noticed a regular pain he had was eliminated.
[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
But all jokes aside, I repeat what I said in my post and what some people didn’t seem to understand: absence of proof is not a proof in itself.[/quote]
If homeopathic preparations were even slightly more effective than placebos, this would be very easy to prove.
They sell water and tell people it’s medicine. I find that offensive - I’m funny that way.
[quote]Gothic77 wrote:
larryb wrote:
You and your mom knew he was taking it. You may have had a more positive and hopeful attitude about his condition during that time, which may have changed his own outlook and perceptions, and reduced his stress levels. Or, it may not have really been a homeopathic preparation. What was the dilution?
What? do you think we don’t know what true homeopathy is? Please! My doctor is a former president of the NCH!
The dilution, since you asked, was 30c, if I recall correctly. I was 13 years old; it’s been a coupla years![/quote]
People disagree about what “true homeopathy” is - see earlier posts.
[quote]Gothic77 wrote:
xfrankx wrote:
there is a scientific here in quebec that took millions of em’ homeopathist told him he was going to die, guess what nothing happen.
That’s a load of crap.
[/quote]
What is a load of crap, that homeopathic overdoses can be deadly, or that someone took such a dose and nothing happened?
Come on larryb, drop the three stooges act. What’s your point? Homeopathy doesn’t work, it just water and sugar pills blah blah blah. Have you ever tried it? Or better yet, what makes your so uncomfortable to see other people spend their money on water (if that is just what it is, and you’ve brought nothing that’s satisfactory as to that) when coke sell water from the city duct in bottles? I don’t think you such a good samaritan, but I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt. Instead of staw man-ing others arguments, why don’t you bring something good, tangible and worth hearing in the debate, so we can discuss it. We’ve all said our opinion, but now it’s time for something more solid. Don’t shy out on me
[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
Or better yet, what makes your so uncomfortable to see other people spend their money on water[/quote]
Not just water - water that is marketed as medicine.
[quote]
(if that is just what it is, and you’ve brought nothing that’s satisfactory as to that)[/quote]
The homeopaths themselves admit that it is nothing but water, only they claim that this water has some “memory” of a substance in it, but for some reason, no memory of all the other substances it has been in contact with.
You would compare selling expensive tap water to selling fake medicine?
Eh? You think I might have some financial interest in the failure of homeopathy?
I have refuted several arguments with evidence. Arguments of the form “well, it worked for me” can be refuted with the equally convincing “No, it didn’t.”
[quote]larryb wrote:
Gothic77 wrote:
xfrankx wrote:
there is a scientific here in quebec that took millions of em’ homeopathist told him he was going to die, guess what nothing happen.
That’s a load of crap.
What is a load of crap, that homeopathic overdoses can be deadly, or that someone took such a dose and nothing happened?[/quote]
That someone said he’d die from it. I’ve yet to hear about a death form homeopathy. Not that those deaths don’t exist, but how many ppl die from aspirin every year? GOBS.
[quote]larryb wrote:
Eh? You think I might have some financial interest in the failure of homeopathy?
[/quote]
I don’t know - are you part of Big Pharma or the FDA? I don’t trust either one of those organizations as far as I can throw them.
How the hell do you know it didn’t work FOR ME, FOR WUFWUGY, FOR ZEN, FOR SILENCER? You don’t. You can not tell me something doesn’t work for my body when I know full well it does. You’re not me! You’re not my body! You’re not in my head!
You do have your head up your ass, though.
You probably never even tried homeopathy, so until you do, STFU.