High School Football Conditioning

Training
21

[quote]-mc- wrote:
i’m sorry for your experience in growing up with mean spirited, small minded men who had your training, physically and psychologically in their hands, and gave you such foul models of intelligent interaction about same, especially with women, and somehow could only retaliate by taking their in securities about their skills on the field, about their communication and their facility with women out on children.

The important thing is that you - and the rest of your colleagues who have such the same here - have transcended that, are well rounded, strong, independent men, who can engage in a discussion about practice - esp with women - without being reduced to fears for your male member.

WAY TO GO.

mc
[/quote]

Oh christ. Someone was the ugly duckling in high school huh.

22

Listen MC,
Not to be sexist (which I knows how you’re going to tale this) but you’re a woman. You have no idea what it’s like cause you never played highschool football. Please do not speak on things that you don’t know about. I wouldn’t go tell a girls volleyball coach how to run a program cause I’m not a volleyball player and I never did that.

.greg.

23

[quote]gregron wrote:
Listen MC,
Not to be sexist (which I knows how you’re going to tale this) but you’re a woman. You have no idea what it’s like cause you never played highschool football. Please do not speak on things that you don’t know about. I wouldn’t go tell a girls volleyball coach how to run a program cause I’m not a volleyball player and I never did that.

.greg.[/quote]

nope not being sexist and not taking your comments as sexist

but i do think there’s a few things at play here,

so here ya go:
there is a difference between culture and physical practice. check. understood. the locker room culture you describe is not unlike what i grew up hearing about from the males in the family. fear not.

to be clear, though, there’s also a difference between “telling someone how to run a program” and asking someone about parts of a program - about having a conversation about training.

I don’t think any of us here were talking telling a foot ball coach how to run “his” program, but it is curious that the mere suggestion of talking with said coach about that program to two of you sends fear of consequences.

On the plus side, at the university level and beyond, this has not been my experience talking with coaches about their programs, but then usually they’re deliberately talking with me about how to bring down injury rates during the year. so perhaps that’s part of the difference.

so
just saying
i do get the culture part you’re describing
i aslo get that no one likes someone waltzing in to say you suck; this is how to do it - no one is suggesting that

and i do hope in exchange you might hear me too on simply suggesting that it seems very odd that a collegial discussion about methodology would have be perceived among adults (a professional mom who is a trainer talking with an adult male who may also be a father, so concerned about his kids, too) as being so threatening, someone would take it out on a child/player.

it may be the way it is, but if it is, really, how healthy is that?
all things aside about “the way it is” - do you think that’s either healthy or the only way it can be and be successful?

when you think of some of the most successful coaches in pro ball - or any team sport - is that what comes up? i’m not being rhetorical; it’s a real question.

mc

24

[quote]-mc- wrote:
nope not being sexist and not taking your comments as sexist

but i do think there’s a few things at play here,

so here ya go:
there is a difference between culture and physical practice. check. understood. the locker room culture you describe is not unlike what i grew up hearing about from the males in the family. fear not.

to be clear, though, there’s also a difference between “telling someone how to run a program” and asking someone about parts of a program - about having a conversation about training.

I don’t think any of us here were talking telling a foot ball coach how to run “his” program, but it is curious that the mere suggestion of talking with said coach about that program to two of you sends fear of consequences.

On the plus side, at the university level and beyond, this has not been my experience talking with coaches about their programs, but then usually they’re deliberately talking with me about how to bring down injury rates during the year. so perhaps that’s part of the difference.

so
just saying
i do get the culture part you’re describing
i aslo get that no one likes someone waltzing in to say you suck; this is how to do it - no one is suggesting that

and i do hope in exchange you might hear me too on simply suggesting that it seems very odd that a collegial discussion about methodology would have be perceived among adults (a professional mom who is a trainer talking with an adult male who may also be a father, so concerned about his kids, too) as being so threatening, someone would take it out on a child/player.

it may be the way it is, but if it is, really, how healthy is that?
all things aside about “the way it is” - do you think that’s either healthy or the only way it can be and be successful?

when you think of some of the most successful coaches in pro ball - or any team sport - is that what comes up? i’m not being rhetorical; it’s a real question.

mc

[/quote]

a lot of your points would be valid if you were talking about a college coach or pro coach (thats what you referenced several times) but we are talking about a highschool coach. If they were that great of a coach they would not be coaching in highschool. Unless they are at a national powerhouse highschool then they would have moved up. That being said you’re not going to get the same response from a coach like that as you would a coach at another level.

It doesnt even matter if the coach gives the kid shit about his mom coming to his rescue but if the other players ever found out about it he would be the laughing stock of the team. He would get made fun of to no end and that is definitely not how you want to start off your freshman year of highschool.

If a mom goes into a coach and starts questioning his practices she is, in a sense, telling him that he doesnt know what he’s doing (especially if she tells him shes a trainer) and that she could do it better. That would not go over well.

.greg.

25

I agree with greg, even though I kinda skipped the middle of this lengthy thread. Hoppy, the number one thing you should be concerned with in terms of strength training for your son is neck strength. With the way kids lead with their heads in HS FB, as long as your son is doing that I think I’d leave the rest alone.

It sounds like theyre doing good strength training exercises, just arranged poorly. I don’t think that is much to complain about.

26

I agree with the folks who say just let him be. Part of being in football is developing mental toughness. Even if you feel the program is not optimally designed for performance, it teaches him to play through pain. Conceptually, it is similar to navy seal training. They don’t make you swim, run and do all sorts of things to make you a better swimmer or runner. They are purposely trying to break you down physically and mentally to see how you respond. Its why a navy seal won’t necessarily come out looking like Rambo. But you can rest assured that he is one of the toughest SOBs on the planet.

27

[quote]-mc- wrote:
so here ya go:
there is a difference between culture and physical practice. check. understood. the locker room culture you describe is not unlike what i grew up hearing about from the males in the family. fear not.

to be clear, though, there’s also a difference between “telling someone how to run a program” and asking someone about parts of a program - about having a conversation about training.

I don’t think any of us here were talking telling a foot ball coach how to run “his” program, but it is curious that the mere suggestion of talking with said coach about that program to two of you sends fear of consequences.
[/quote]

Let me spell this out as clearly as I can- football is a man’s world. there is no female equivalent and no female that hasn’t played the sport (and there are some, of course) understands what it takes to get through that violent-ass sport.

I am 100 percent sure that coaches want neither advice nor “suggestions” from a mom. Whether she knows her shit or not.

Healthy? How healthy is it?

Again, you’re looking at it from some pansy ass new age perspective. High school football coaches are fucking drill seargents, and mine were exactly how they’re all perceived to be. Going through football camp was like going through BUD/S when you’re 17. No one cares about healthy or cares about your feelings about open things are. It’s a direct hierarchy, and if the parents get involved, it equals a bigass grudge.

Like the other dude said- they’re not HS coaches because they’re the best in the world, but a drill seargent isn’t the best strategist either, or else he’d be a general.

No one gives a shit about “healthy.” They give a shit about winning.

I’m a journalist. And just like how if you walked into my office and told me how I should write, I’d throw your ass out and then laugh at you when you left, the football coach will do the same.

It’s going to sound sexist, and it probably is, but there’s shit women just don’t understand. This is one of them.

28

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Let me spell this out as clearly as I can- football is a man’s world. there is no female equivalent and no female that hasn’t played the sport (and there are some, of course) understands what it takes to get through that violent-ass sport.
[/quote]

LOL, while I agree with the general point of your posts- that unless the coach is putting her son in direct physical danger (ie, making them practice with concussions, etc., not “squatting too frequently”), she needs to butt out, but c’mon now. Football’s a game. A pretty violent game, but I think you are giving it a bit too much credit. I played with and against some badass dudes in high school, but I also played with and against some real pussies too. I know and have trained plenty of girls who are a lot tougher than some of the pussies I played with/against in high school. I don’t think that the sport of football is beyond comprehension of those without a Y chromosome.

But, that’s kind of besides the point. She may well understand the nature of football, but what some are not totally getting (as you said) is the nature of football coaches. Most football coaches are not particularly (enlightened), nor do they care to be. Rest assured, openly questioning his coach is not going to reflect well on the kid. As already seen in the thread, there is also going to be resistance purely based on a being a woman.

I train lots of kids, and many of them going into high school. Most of these schools have “voluntary” workouts, that really aren’t voluntary for somebody coming in and trying to get noticed to make varsity as freshman. I tell them to go in there, and if the coaches are watching, bust their ass and impress and I’ll adjust what they do with me to compensate.

It also depends on your reputation. There are a few coaches who have now had 10-15 kids that have trained with me over the years and I’ve gotten good results, now all I do is send them an e-mail saying, “they are training with me, here are copies of the workouts they are doing and the progress they are making, etc.” and now they’ll just tell the kid to skip the voluntary workouts (not the skill stuff/summer league, of course) and just train with me. If you have a reputation beyond, “personal trainer at the YMCA,” you can get away with this.

It’s my experience that most coaches know that their summer workouts aren’t the best thing and that half the time the kids are just dicking around. But understand that they have a lot of experience with high school kids and know that most of them are lazy and/or make excuses to not do anything but hang out at the beach and play video games all summer. Try going to the coach and say that you really want to make sure he’s going to be at his best for fall and he has the opportunity to train with a friend of yours who was an assistant strength coach for (insert some random college) and agreed to let your son train with him. Or some bullshit like that. Phrase it like going to the school’s workouts would be great, but your son wants to do even more.

Of course, in that case, you actually need to follow through and get good results with your son, or you/him are just going to look like fools.

29

Wow, interesting stuff on this topic. The last post probably had the most important advice of the thread - to train the neck. Most high schools do a terrible job of this. If you don’t know how to do this, check out Site Suspended - This site has stepped out for a bit for some ideas and videos that will show you how. I don’t remember seeing anything like this on here, but there could be. You could also YouTube neck exercises, but I don’t know much I’d trust all of those videos - just can’t tell which ones to pick.

You have to really two the line between protecting your kid and allowing him to assimilate to the “team.” As long as he’s not in danger, you can supplement his school training with your own training. If they’re forcing him to do cleans, then see if he can get away with going super light so he doesn’t get hurt.

I also agree with -mc- that you might want to have a talk with the coach to find out more about the program. You have to approach it carefully, like you’re simply inquiring and possibly asking if you can help since you’re a professional. If you go in and start questioning him, he’ll put up his defenses and you won’t get anywhere. You have to act like you’re super interested and open to helping in any way you can. You need to kind of get your foot in the door before you start complaining or questioning. Chances are, your can stay safe if you instruct him to keep things light for now and learn good technique. that might buy you some time to get “inside” the program.