Help - Lots and lots of help

Training Bodybuilding
1

Um, I’m unsure where to begin, but first I guess I ought to say hello and such before going into the situation.

First, let me start out by saying this seems to be a nice (if not occasionally intimidating because everyone seems so knowledgeable about so many things) forum.

The problem (by the way, this might be a LONG reading session, just a warning) is that I’m unsure what to do to get rid of the fat. I thought I used to know, but now I?m more confused and disparaged than ever (I mention why below). I checked a few posts, but there doesn’t seem to be a situation matching mine. I would like to drop my BF% as quick as possible, while retaining as much strength and muscle as possible. This is where part of my concern lies. I kind of pride myself on my strength (perhaps too much, as, when I was gaining strength over the past two years, I didn?t watch what I ate and properly calculate what my calorie, carb, fat, etc… intake should have been) and I?m scared of losing vast amounts of it to drop off the fat.

Fall semester, I managed to actually calculate what I should have been getting to drop my BF% (which is like 35% right now) and I was doing great. I dropped almost 15 lbs about a month and a half in and had set up a binging day (or rather a day just to enjoy certain foods), just so I wouldn?t go crazy. I even occasionally enjoyed foods twice a week, but by then the whole thing had snowballed and before I decided to gain some mass about a month and a half before a bench press competition in late November, I had gone from 350+ to 329-ish lbs. All in about 2 months or so. And I discovered I hadn?t lost much strength at all at the competition! I have no idea what triggered the fat loss to go so well, but it was glorious, I hadn?t been under 330 in two years. Sadly, I haven?t been able to replicate it this spring semester. In essence I?ve only netted about a 5+ lb. loss (after having to go home spring break and all these family get-togethers where you?re stuffed going on nearly everyday; all the food I had to bring back; and other distractions). Prior to spring break, it was about a 13 lb. loss.

More problems: I?m an aerospace engineering major, in my senior year. So, when it comes to multiple workouts per day, it?s not a viable option for me (i.e. cardio in the morning, lift in the afternoon, etc?). In addition, I injured my myself in the middle of last fall semester, acquiring quadriceps tendonitis (went to the doctor, all should be cool, over time, it?s already coming back) and probably got some strain in one of my shoulders that nags me when the weight gets high (300+) and reps are 6-8 (popping noise too, similar to that joint popping topic). Because of these injuries I wanted to cut weight this semester and lifted lighter (except for legs, not much to do there, my knee is just now becoming fit to return to lifting at 25% of my original workout). Well, since I totally bombed my workout program this semester, I feel like I sort of wasted a semester of my life from a workout perspective. And I?m anxious to make some progress because at some point during the fall, I?ll have to return to bulking up before the competition. Not to mention it?s getting hard going to the gym, seeing people lifting heavy (when you?re sure you can lift FAR heavier) and resisting the urge to go start lifting heavy and gaining strength again.

Basically, the art of cutting down the fat just feels like one big futile exercise for me. I guess that?s it.

In all honesty, I?m more concerned with the BF percentage than the actual weight. And I?m not trying to ?look good? as much as I want to be healthier. I was wondering if anyone here would be willing to recommend a possible diet and dietary supplements for me this summer. And if you don?t mind, recommending any supplements for joint strength (or somewhere where I could research about them).

Please let me know if there is any information from me you require to clarify anything, or you feel it’s necessary to know.

2

Hi, FT. I see this is your first message, so welcome to the board!!!

There are lots of people here in the same boat as you – either a lot of BF to lose or discouraged about their progress (for one reason or another). The nice thing about that T-Mag community is that we kinda keep each other propped up or give each other a swift kick in the pants (when appropriate).

My recommendations are 1) To start reading your little heart out, back issues of T-Mag and searches on the forum, both; and 2) Start keeping a food log, measuring, weighing and tracking everything that goes into your mouth. Those are two extremely positive things you can start doing for yourself right off the bat.

Keeping a food log is the only way you’ll ever get useful advice from “the community.” As an example, I could tell you that I take in 170g of protein per day, less than 70g of carbs and that fats on any given day vary to meet my caloric requirements (1,500 kcal/day). I could also tell you that I eat P+F meals mostly, with a P+C meal post workout and upon rising. Since I weigh myself every day, for me, it’s a case of dropping calories by about 200 per day to pick progress up a bit if I’m not satisfied – either that or pick up the HIIT that I’ve been slacking on.(grin)

What I’m saying, FT, about keeping a food log is that if I posted a message with the stats above and asked for help, members here could provide me with some useful guidance. Though at this point I’ve learned the game and my own unique (stubborn) metabolism well enough that I am self managing and rarely need to ask for help.

Dieting and body composition goals are such a personal thing. We all have different preferences and our bodies respond better or worse to different macronutrient ratios and different degrees of caloric restriction. Those decisions ultimately need to be made by you after reading about the different options. Recommendation #3, read the FAQ, specifically the section about different diets here on T-Mag. From there, do a search on the forum to find out what kind of real-life results people are/were getting.

Okay, FT. Get to work. Do your homework. And read the T&N board as often as you are able. Everything I know today about diet and training I’ve learned from T-Mag. And good luck! (though, as is often said, “Luck has nothing to do with it.”)

3

There are tons of great programs here on the board, but I do have one suggestion for you: The Winning Formula by John Berardi in the Previous Issues.

This article details an excellent plan for long term successful weight loss.

Joel Marion’s Ripped, Rugged and Dense is another great choice that shows you the benefit of training heavy while dieting.

There is so much other reading, but those articles should get you started. Anyway, here are a few key points.

1)Listen to Terry and start keeping a food, workout and weight log.

2)Perform some type of activity at least 6 days a week. 3 Lifting sessions followed by 20 minutes of moderate cardio and 3 higher intensity training sessions (HIIT) or at least higher intensity cardio would be very beneficial.

3)Make excellent food choices: John Berardi’s Lean Eatin series and the Foods that Make you Look Good Nekid article are great starting points.

4)Don’t do anything extreme. You’ve got a long way to go and are in this for life. Don’t crash and burn off the bat.

5)Set short, medium and long term goals - write them down and make someone hold you accountable.

6)Be consistent - Don’t change your diet and exercise program at the whim of every article you read.

7)Ask for help when you need it, but remember that you can help yourself better than any of us on this board.

8)Get your diet, training, lifestyle and supplementation in order IN THAT ORDER.

9)Chronicle your progress - pictures, body composition measurements or something like that.

4

Thank you very much! I was afraid that I had been too general in my post, but I’ll definitely look into those articles (I’ve already began reading some things on the front page, and “wow”)! I noticed several things you guys mentioned I never did try, but one REALLY did stick out. Like my lifting, my dieting is typically a loner affair, perhaps if I did start holding someone accountable, there could be some noticeable changes just by that alone (not I’m stopping there though).

But, if no one minds me derailing my own topic (I don’t want to create another and cause another topic to fall further down), does anyone have any suggestions or know where I can research joint/tendon/ligament strengthening supplements for my injuries? I’ve cut down on my lifting load, but if there’s a beneficial supplement that can help me, I’m all for it.

5

I haven’t tried it myself, but when searching the forum (for something else) I found a number of posters found proteolytic enzymes (Wobenzym) to be helpful recovering from joint injury.
There was an interview with Kinakin on T-mag mentioning those enzymes. You may want to do a search and check it out.

I have found fish oil just eradicates my joint inflammation.

Also a diet that helps build muscle tissue is probably going to help build and repair all other kinds of tissue, too. That’s my intuition, anyway.

Other injuries are basically caused by imbalances and can be corrected with judicious exercises. For example, I eliminated my shoulder pain by working rotator cuff and rear delts. There are a number of articles on T-mag about exercises and joint injuries as well. There was an article on knee injuries by (I think) Lori Gross. Paul Chek and Ian King address imbalances a lot, too.

Hope this helps!

6

Thanks andersons!

While I’m at it, I’ve been trying to research Mr. Bernardi’s Winning Formula, but since it appeared in a T-Mag issue about a million years ago :wink: would someone mind giving me the run down? I did do a search and found someone’s “Winning Forumla” (KraigY?). I’d like to know if I can implement it following my 3-4 weeks of Fat Fast. Speaking of which, does anyone want to take a look at the plan for those four weeks and tell me what’s wrong (or right)?

Weeks 1 ? 4: Fat Fast

Max Cals: 2510/ 1255 from Low Carb Protein Shakes, 1255 from Flax Seed Oil

Beginning BF%: Approximately 37~38%
Beginning Weight: Approximately 345~350lbs.
Beginning LBM: Approximately 217~220lbs.

However, I’m unsure what to take for anti-catabolism (What is it everyone takes here? 4-AD? What do you recommend?), and, if any, thermogenic supplements to take, or anything else anyone may recommend who’s been on this before.

7

At your weight, 4-AD would be fine for anti-catabolism during the fat fast. I’d suggest lots of moderate cardio during this period and heavy resistance training (low rep, high intensity). Also, I’d recommend creatine supplementation to assist with lifting workouts during this period.

Following the four weeks of Fat Fast, I would move into the Winning Formula as you suggested since that is a program that can be maintained for extended periods of time.

As for joint health, you can look into the following.

glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate
msm
coral calcium
wobenzyme
fish oil
omega-3’s in general
high rep lactic acid training (read about the 15 rep microcycle in HST - issues 218-219 about Bryan Haycock’s program or do a search about HST)

8

Thanks a lot!

Man, the wealth of info and aid you get here is staggering. I appreciate it everyone, really. :slight_smile:

And I just realized that these issues are online. laughs Man, I feel stupid.

Do you recommend a particular Creatine brand?

9

I use Prolab as you can get it cheaply through online distributors like dpsnutrion and it is a reputable brank.

Just use the plain powdered stuff and dissolve it in green tea, which you should be drinking a lot of especially during a cutting phase.

10

My motivation for dieting is getting up every morning and thinking about what I could look like. Right by my computer (which is next to my bed) there is a tack board. Right in the middle of the tack board are my long term goals, 7 of them to be exact. I see them every day, and it makes me work harder at it. Smaller, intermediate goals come along the way, and you can write those down too, as it can always help.

Once you start making good progress, people will notice. You’ll start getting comments about how great you look, etc. It is truly a great motivation.

Keep a food log. This really really works. It keeps you honest, as you can actually see if you eat crap foods or not.
Get a scale and measure everything for as long as it takes for you to memorize portions. Scales are cheap, like 30 bucks maybe.

Good luck with everything!!

11

FT, it sounds like you found The Winning Formula, but if you didn’t, it’s issue 204.

Berardi says that people can have trouble (i.e., blow up) with carbs after they come off a ketogenic diet. This was certainly true for my workout partner last year. Berardi makes recommendations for how to come off a ketogenic diet (gradually adding low-GI carbs, using various supplements, doing cardio, etc.). This was an answer to a question in his column Appetite for Construction in issue 150. This may be useful for you. Cy Willson wrote an article on The Taming of Insulin with more useful info.

12

Hey everyone, sorry to keep raising my own topic, but I wanted to see if anyone could tell me if my diet for the first 4 weeks (Fat Fast) was okay. I read someone mentioning that they wouldn’t recommend not actually eating solid food all day and to add something like Tuna at the end of the day, is that necessary? Or just a good idea?

Weeks 1 ? 4: Fat Fast

Max Cals: 2860 (what I’d like to get maximum)/ 1430 from Protein Shakes, 1170 from Flax Seed Oil

Supplements: Protein (55g Protein, 3g Carbs, 3g Fat, 260 KCals per serving), Flax Seed Oil (130 Kcals, 14 g Fat), Creatine (140 Kcals, 29g Carbs, 7g Protein)

For sixth protein serving, only get 1 scoop (About 27g Protein, 1.5 Carbs, 1.5g Fat, 130 KCals)

9 Flax Seed Oil servings (1170 Kcal, 126g Fat)

On workout days: Two servings of Creatine (before and after workout) (280 Kcal, 58g Carbs, 14g Protein)

Diet:

Morning: Protein Shake (one serving) with mixed in Flax Seed Oil (Two servings) ? multi-vitamin

Between Morning and Lunch: Protein Shake (one serving) ? mixed with Flax Seed Oil (One serving)

Lunch: Protein Shake (one serving) with mixed in Flax Seed Oil (Two servings)

Between Lunch and Dinner: Protein Shake (one serving) ? mixed with Flax Seed Oil (One serving)

Dinner: Protein Shake (one serving) ? mixed with Flax Seed Oil (Two servings)

After Dinner Protein Shake (half a serving) ? mixed with One serving of Flax Seed Oil

13

A question for you all. I’m in day 5 of Fat Fast and even though I decided to check my weight weekly, I had to check it this morning after breakfast, but before my workout out of curiosity. I noticed I had lost about 6 lbs. My dilemma is, is this too fast? I’m concerned about if I’m dropping water moreso than fat or (hopefully not) muscle.

I’m getting about 200 less calories than my body needs (2880 @ LBM x 13), but I don’t think that should contribute to major muscle loss or anything. I’m also averaging about 290g Protein and 129g Fat. In addition I’m getting a lot of glutamine (couldn’t get ahould of 4-AD immediately). I don’t think there’s been any noticeable drop in my LBM (none I can see).

Also, I’m drinking over a gallon of water a day (not counting water ingested to due mixing supplements, that factored in, it’s probably two gallons) and I’m on creatine - a scoop before and after workouts. I figured this would also help in water retention so that I’m not dropping water weight like crazy.

Then I figured that I’m pretty sedentary outside of my workouts (which I’ve managed to drop to about 1.25 hours), so I didn’t think I was doing anything intense enough to burn off muscle. Especially since I’m only doing cardio at ~70% my max heart rate. And lifting heavy @ ~60% max lift on most exercises (except most leg exercises due to the injury).

Is anything going wrong? Do I need to drink more water? Or push my diet up to my calorie need? Or am I just overreacting? You decide! :slight_smile:

If anyone needs to see what I’ve been eating and doing activity-wise, I can post it.

14

This is something of an update, I guess. I figure, since you guys took the time to help, I feel I at least owe you a status on my progress.

I can’t say it’s good, because there’s no particularly good way for me to quantify it. In short, I really don’t know what to say…

I’m well into the 320’s now down from 350 (April+). I went from 350 to 334 after Fat Fast. But I hated having to use the scale and analyzing my diet to determine if I was doing anything improperly. And, in all honesty, I don’t care about my weight, it’s the BF that has me concerned. Supposedly I dropped 3% BF. However, this is done with a tape measure/girth measurement, which is probably the worst way to measure BF%. I wasn’t able to get any anti-catabolic/testosterone/andro agent like 4-AD…

I have been on a derivative of the Winning Formula for 3 weeks now (2710 Cals, 75 Fat, 306 Protein, 157 Carbs, eating the 3 P+F and 3 P+C meals, 3 days of anaerobic, 3 days of lifting, 1 comprehensive abs day, alternating workouts weekly) and it seems okay, but I’m just worried about losing my muscle and not being able to adequately tell if there’s a change in BF%. I have not noticed a lack of strength in my lifts, in fact, I’ve had to up the weight several times in several exercises and still max out the weight on some exercises.

I want to have a look at this HOT ROX product to help accelerate progress a bit. I’ve been reading about it in the HOT-ROX forum and paying attention to Cy’s recommendations and explanations on intake and complementary supplements - and I would love to try it out.

Do you all have any suggestions? Or is this a question for the HOT-ROX forum?

I dunno whether to note my progress as good or bad, so I’m a little confused…

15

I must say that you’re doing everything that we could ask a new-comer on this forum to do. I greatly appreciate how much you’ve contributed to this thread as opposed to just asking a question and lurking. It’s obvious that your heart’s in this.

If you’re concerned about whether or not you’re losing LBM, try to find other ways to measure BF% (calipers, scales, etc.). Jason Norcross had a two part article on measuring body fat, so just type “Jason Norcros body fat measurement” into the search engine, or something like that, and you should find it.

Another option might be to see how your girths are changing. If your proportions are getting better (i.e. not a larger relative change in size of chest, arms, quads compared to waist), then you’re probably doing just fine.

Also, you said that your strength was going up? If it is, I wouldn’t think you’re losing too much LBM. Maybe I’m wrong. This is kind of my concern now too, as I’m dieting. I’m losing weight at an appropriate pace, but my concern is the same as yours (am I losing muscle?). I’ve just been getting stronger the whole time that I’ve been cutting, so I’m not going to worry too much about it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you do lose LBM & strength, it will come back quickly after a diet. It’s not lost forever! :slight_smile:

16 
 FT welcome to the Testosterone community! Here you'll find people from all levels of experience, from complete virgins to the game to the 'brand names' of the weightlifting and coaching world.

 Christian Thibeaudeau in 'Lair of the Ice Dog' is one such expert. Coach Davies in 'Renegade Training' is another. You'll find articles from the best coaches and nutrionists in the World. This is a no bull Magazine. They dont give pretty pics of Ronnie Colemans ass and tell you how much weight he squats. No. They tell you what you need to do to succeed. These are articles written upon extensive experience and fact. John Berardis articles for example are based upon solid research going on today.

  You're lucky to have found this here site. Make good use of it, and let others know where to find QUALITY no-bull info. Good luck!
17 
 Your attitude seems to be right on. You want to learn, and buddy in this world, there is nothing more valuable for someone who wants to accomplish something to set themselves out to search for the knowledge they need.
18

I’m not sure Berardi’s Winning Formula is all that accurate at high body fat levels. Even he says the formula needs adjustment for big guys. As an example, check out the thread “Morbidly Obese? Do the Math” for an example. The numbers just don’t look right at high BF%

19 
 While I agree with John Berardi's diet guidelines, his caloric intake numbers seem to work only if you have a very high metabolism. F.ex., I can gain mass at caloric intake levels which are much lowerr than those he recommends. Likewise, when leaning down my caloric intake numbers need to be much lower than those he recommends in one of his articles. If I recall correctly he recommended a caloric intake which for an individual like me would be in the high 3000s, which did nothing for me. I needed to bring that number down to the low 2000s to see good results (and by good results I mean 1-2 lbs mass/week, no more and no less)
20

Oh, I’m sorry, I should’ve mentioned more things in my research on this site for the past four months. Sadly, I haven’t caught up on everything (due to engineering), but I’ve been reading Beast Evolves, “Foods that make you look good nekkid,” Thibeaudeau’s Ab program (which I just incorporated three weeks ago…man that hurts), Ways to protect the shoulders, diagnosing shoulder problems, and many more. Coincidentally, I read Mr. Norcross’ articles on BF% measurement this morning and will search for some calipers soon.

The reason the carbs are so low and the protein is so high in the P+F/P+C combo diet is because I took a bit from Thibeaudeau’s “Beast Evolves.” (as I also did for Fat Fast)

Sorry about the HOT-ROX, didn’t know if it was appropriate here or not, but I wanted to make sure it was recommended in my case before I invested in it (since money’s a little tight).

Yorik, you don’t happen to know the time frame of that thread do you? I’ve been trying to use the search feature to find it and haven’t had any luck (is it down?).