Hey guys, looking for some help on pretty much where to go now.
Currently, I’m 6’2, 248-250lbs and about 30% bodyfat.
My lifts are a 235 bench, 415 deadlift, 405 squat and 150 OHP, with decent conditioning for my size as well (I play DII rugby and need to be in good aerobic shape). Ideally, Id like to drop from my high bodyfat to around 15-18%, but I’d rather not lose strength and ideally maybe even gain some.
My current program is lifting 5ish days a week, starting each day with a main movement (varying reps and intensity) but always trying to hit a rep PR of 5, 3, 2 or 1, followed by accessory work. I was considering adding in some LISS cardio 3 days, but I’d like to lose fat as fast as possible, to be frank.
Fat loss is driven by your diet more than anything- you’ll have to eat less calories. The macro split is up to you. You can walk to assist in the fat loss.
If you’re looking for a program, check out CT’s “Built for Battle” program, free, has you Dead/Squat/OHP/Row/Bench 5 days a week in a circuit fashion, mixes conditioning and conventional lifting, and is fun as hell.
Continue lifting in the same manner, but be ready to jettison the accessory work. Don’t eat much of anything except lean meat and vegetables. No cardio (yet). Prepare yourself to suffer.
(Or…)
Set less ambitious goals.
I was already considering keeping intensity and dropping volume to maintain muscle mass, I was just wondering what would help with fat loss lol.
I really should, but setting ambitious ones like these helps me put in a lot more work. So even if I fail, I go further than i would have gone otherwise
A smarter way is to approach this in a way so you don’t fail (or minimize the chances of failing).
The issue with failing is it usually puts you back further than where you started. The issue with what you’re proposing is it is what most people who fail do.
You’re right there lol, I used to be a really twiggy kid though so it’s just kind of hard to get out of that mental paradigm of ‘eat everything, lift hard and try and get as big as possible’
His Built for Battle plan actually looks good to run, so thank you!
From my own experience, accept that you’ll get weaker until you stop leaning out. You mightn’t get weaker at everything, but overall your strength will probably take a hit. It’s normal, so don’t worry. It’ll come back once you add lean mass back on.
IMO given you’re pretty big already (muscle and fluffiness lel) and not that strong for being a big athletic fella unless that shit in kilograms I think it is possible for you to lean out while making strength gains. We gotta be a little realistic tho. The strength gains arent going to be huge (probably tiny actually unless your lifting leverages improve with less fat on you or your technique improves significantly) nor will the fat loss process be quick if this is to work but with smart/appropriate programming and slow conservative dieting it’s certainly possible.
So… it comes down to diet and training.
For training.
Have a watch of this real quick:
I’ll try to define terms as I go but I might forget. Intensity (weight on the bar) alone is not enough to maintain gains. e.g. if you go from repping 3 biscuits for 5 sets to hitting a single at 4 plates twice a week you’re getting less of a stimulus for gains.
Volume is just as important. It’s not exactly multiplication but combining intensity x volume (= work done) over time gives you your stimulus for gains and holding onto muscle while in a deficit. So we gotta find a happy medium between doing enough work to get positive adaptions and training within your means and not exceeding your reduced recovery resources. Given where you’re at I think you’ll be able to recover from enough work to make modest strength gains.
Diet wise I think you got the basics already. Eat enough protein and create a deficit consistently. If you want to accomplish your goals the weight loss is gonna have to be real slow/conservative so you can allow your body maximum resources with which to fuel training, recover and adapt. The actual rate of fat loss that will be most effective is probably individual and will change as you become leaner so it’s hard to say.
LISS cardio is just extra work/volume that will take away from your already limited recovery resources but give no benefit in terms of holding onto muscle/strength. Train for your sport if you must but maybe chill on the extra cardio/work for recovery’s sake.
Honestly, it’s not the most difficult thing in the world. I’ve worked with plenty of powerlifters who once they have an actually well thought out and intelligent diet magically lose the fat that they’ve been maintaining, yet have no problem with their performance in the gym. Plenty have gone on to set that personal bests once all of the bases of their nutrition plan are covered.
Training wise, and I know I am going to get some flak for this from some folks, doing Nothing but powerlifting movements in your training isn’t the optimal approach to build muscle size. If strength is your goal, it shouldn’t be a factor, but if you are hoping to add lean muscle tissue, as well as enhance fat burning, there’s a reason why the volume part of bodybuilder specific training is so important.
Agree 100%. I read the OP as being interested in strength only, is why I endorsed a main-movement-only lifting regimen for someone apparently intent and willing to embark on a severely calorie-restricted diet.
From my experience you can lean out and keep up strength by basically keep doing what you’re doing workout wise, and go on a moderate caloric deficit, especially when your starting point is at quite high BF%. For big fellas, I don’t think you’ll lose much strength taking the ‘slow and steady’ approach to dieting. I feel that it’s when you go into too big caloric deficits wanting to have fast results that you start eating into muscle mass and strength…
I don’t think your strength is at its peak so you should be able to lose fat while maintaining these numbers at the very least.
I think you’re capable of improving your strength and your weight/body fat is just a result of overeating. Pick a program, work hard, and eat at a deficit. It will take a lot for you to drift into overtraining and under-recovering.
Firstly, thank you very much for the comprehensive response, it really helped a lot. You’re right that I’m not that strong for my size. I’ve always been athletic so that’s made up for it but yes, my lifts aren’t good enough for my bodyweight which is partially why i’d like to drop it.
Thank you for the tip on LISS, I’ll stick to my 3 weekly practices, I think those at a deficit along with some lifting will help me lean out.
You’re definitely right, I’ve only really been on the lifting journey for a year, maybe a little over. And i only started doing an actual strength program about 6-8 months ago. I’ve just let myself get too crazy with the food, but thank you.
I agree with everything but I’m gonna add that muscle and strength are very much linked in this case. One can be as neurologically efficient as can be but if you’ve lost muscle your strength/output is gonna decrease. So keeping in assistance/accessories in order to promote muscle maintenance/gains is essential to strength.
I’m glad we’ve all contributed but while it’s all been good advice but lacking a little in the way of specifics and practical recommendations.
Diet’s been covered more or less because it’s straightforward. Would like to add that you should keep carbs high both to fuel high intensity training and to give you a variable to adjust easily when fat loss stalls.
Training wise we need to get a bit more specific tho.
Great idea here. @tambar5000 your training history is a good place to start at. How better to maintain gains then to continue to provide the same work / training stimulus? Our goals are a bit loftier tho because you want to get stronger not just maintain.
Best case your current training has been getting you decent consistent gains, it’s not so hardcore that you won’t be able to cope with it in a deficit and you’ll be able to continue this training and continue to make gains tho they might be a bit slower than if you had been in a caloric surplus. Might not know if this applies to you until after you’ve been dieting and training for a few weeks.
If you’re not making decent gains on your program, going super crazy like in the gym or it is actually the weight gain that has contributed to most of your gains as opposed to smart programming then going into a surplus may stall you out or make you go backwards.
So tell us or show us as much as possible about your program. From basic stuff like your training split, exercise selection to periodisation strategies or lack thereof, training diary/logs, thoughts/comments on your own training e.g. what works/has worked well for you in the past and what specific things are worrying you e.g. being a relatively poor bench presser.
Well, when I first started actually my weightlifting journey, it was on my Rugby Teams off-season program. Essentially a 4-day upper-lower split, with the upper body days containing bench and OHP (Accessories included super-setting every movement with an antagonistic muscle movement, like bench with B.B rows) and lower body having Squats and Deads (GHR’s, Good Mornings, RDL’s, Leg Press). It went in waves. The first week, we’d do 4 sets of 12 on everything at 60i=5sh percent of our max. Each week, we’d increase the weight by 5% and decrease the reps by 2, so by the last week we’d be doing 4 reps at 85%. Then we’d just restart the cycle, increasing our TM by 3-5%. This got me on a 1/2/3/4 plates on the big four lifts in about 5 months. Let me say though, when I had first started lifting while i’d never been in the weightroom I had gained most of my size (was at about a husky/chunky 230)just by being athletic and doing Wrestling and Rugby for most of my life.
Currently, I’m doing a GZCL style routine, going 6 days a week. I always start with a main movement, one accessory and then more assistance work. On the second day of a lift, i drop the weight and try to work on power/technique. I try to do 10-15 minutes of HIIT or general conditioning after every session (After deadlift days, I’ll try and to 200-400 swings with a kettlebell, etc).
Not sure what else. My diet isn’t a problem so much as low willpower
Lifting heavy has always been enjoyable for me. Personally, seeing the weight on the bar increase was always a big sense of motivation and fun and what actually kept me going back when I first started. My concerns are an injured shoulder (being worked and rehabed currently) I have a poverty bench and went from being able to do 3-4 pullups to 0.
Might not mean workout to workout, week to week or even month to month depending on the program and how often it gives you opportunity to express your progress tho you should be able to gauge whether or not you’re going in the right direction. Are you making progress on all your lifts currently? Perhaps differently on each lift?
Be cool if you could present it like this or at least list the exercises you do.
The principles underpinning GZCL are solid enough for someone at your level. As per the above post the important question is whether you are currently progressing with your current program. Can’t really move forward without knowing that.
Some thoughts for now:
The HIIT or general conditioning is the stuff I was getting at that you should minimise as much as possible. If it’s what is maintaining your fitness for rugby and that’s very important to you then cutting it out is not much of an option but still it’s quite a recovery sink.
Bench is indeed poverty so probably gonna have to do make changes there.
In terms of your shoulder injury: What kind is it first of all. Does it/has it held you back in some way when training upper body e.g. can’t do certain exercises or go heavy or is it pretty much all g now. Has it forced you to take time off or ease off on upper body training perhaps being why bench is disproportionately weak?
Pretty big problem to have lel. My tips are to make it as easy for yourself as possible e.g. don’t try to eat super strict super clean no carbs broccoli and chicken breast if you can’t. IIFYM if you like. Low calorie or calorie free soft drinks to satisfy your sweet tooth. etc. Not really my area of expertise tho
Probably gonna be applicable for bench but other lifts also if you’re technique is shitty than just fixing that up and becoming more efficient will improve your output/strength. Sort of cheating but it could go some way towards helping you achieve your goals. Post a video with decently heavy weight from a few different camera angles if you’re interested.
