Help Building a Yoke

Training Bodybuilding
102

[quote]actionboy wrote:
hey MM, i do reverse grip in a smith machine, do you think this still applies?[/quote]

i’ve actually gotten quit a few PM’s regarding the reverse grip bench after my last post.

I started doing them in the smith. I feel that the smith allows you to really isolate the triceps by pressing towards the feet but if you are looking to maximize Yoke i would also do them with a barbell. I found that once i got comfortable with the movement and started to use some heavy weight, the mass came on really fast.

103

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Reverse Grip Bench
[/quote]

MM I have only ever seen this performed once because the guy in question was injured (as in your case) so would you rate this exercise as something that should be part of normal programming or just use it in an injury situation as you did?

Did you keep the shoulder blades pinched together throughout the movement?

You said there there was little pec involvement so you would’nt consider this a pec builder?

Very interesting about the rear delts (shoulders balancing out).

Apologies for all the Q’s

Thanks!

104

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Solution: hammer Strength shrugs. I have been doing those the majority of the time I’ve lifted meaning they are why my traps look like this. They work and there is no bar. I would ONLY use a barbell if I had no access to a plate loaded machine like this. get up to doing 6 plates a side for slow reps with no gloves and tell me if your traps are still small.[/quote]

I’ve tried these and they’re my favorite. Zero back pain when I’m not injured. My current gym doesn’t have them though. It’s a college gym that only has a couple HS machines.[/quote]

If you are doing regular barbell shrugs, your knees should be slightly bent. It means your own aren’t if you are having trouble catching your dick with the bar. It sounds like you are having a posture issue.

105

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
…believe it or not, my traps and rear delts blew up from doing reverse grip bench…[/quote]

MM, would you mind elaborating on how this happens? Is it due to stabilization, or something else?[/quote]

last year at the SPF Worlds i smacked one of my training partners before a big deadlift attempt and tweaked my front delt pretty bad. I couldn’t bench with a regular grip without major pain. I tried a few different bench variations but the all hurt my shoulder. Then one day i remembered seeing the barbarian brothers doing reverse grip bench presses. I saw one of them fail at 500 and of course i wanted to do more than that:) I decided to give them a shot and suprisingly i had no anterior shoulder pain at all.

The reason for this- The reverse grip bench is a lot like a really heavy face pull. If you’ve ever done those, you will understand. The upper back, medial and posterior delts pretty much support most of the weight. Theres substantially less anterior delt and pec involvement. The inner tricep also support a ton of the weight and is involved in most of the pressing.

At first the movement was very awkward and i was as weak as a kitten at them. I stuck with them out of necessity though and over a six month period, my reverse grip bench went from 225lbs to 520lbs.

A very unexpected result was all those muscles used to stablilize and lower all that weight ballooned up. It’s one thing to shrug a bunch of weight through a pretty short ROM, but it’s another to lower a huge load through a pretty big ROM and then hold it there at chest level.

I really didn’t realize how unbalanced my shoulders were before all of this. My anterior delts were way ahead of the rest of my should development. Now my shoulders are very balanced and my upper back and traps pop out.

So, to answer your question, it’s all about stabilizing all that weight on the way down and then holding it there at chest level while flexing the shoulders, upper back and traps.

I’ve recently switched back to a regular grip on bench and my shoulders are all healed up and I can lower the weight with so much more control now.

I’ve said this before, everyone should include reverse grip benching in their routines. [/quote]

Thanks, MM. I’ve tried these a total of once, and like you said, it was awkward, so I didn’t pursue it. it was also when I was much younger so didn’t have the patience to keep at it to figure it out. Any technique tips you can give? I think this is something I’ll give a shot at for a while, that area is one I’d like to improve.

[/quote]

i’m going to paste in a vid of one of my reverse grip benches that may help.

as for tips, hand placement is very important. you need to find a distance on the bar that allows you to get the most tricep acticvation plus stability. i place the edge of the heel of my hand on the rings. i also place the bar across my hands so that they are almost parallel to the bar. the bar sits right in the middle of my hands with the bar between my index and middle.

also, i lower the bar pretty much straight down and then as i press, i press towards my feet. not back towards the shoulders like a typical regular grip bench.

the great thing about reverse grip is that you don’t even have to think about tucking the elbows. it all happens very naturally.

106

[quote]worzel wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Reverse Grip Bench
[/quote]

MM I have only ever seen this performed once because the guy in question was injured (as in your case) so would you rate this exercise as something that should be part of normal programming or just use it in an injury situation as you did?

Did you keep the shoulder blades pinched together throughout the movement?

You said there there was little pec involvement so you would’nt consider this a pec builder?

Very interesting about the rear delts (shoulders balancing out).

Apologies for all the Q’s

Thanks!
[/quote]
IMHO, it should definitely be in the rotation. i used it originally for rehab but it has done so much for overall balance, mass and strength that i’ll definitely keep it in the rotation.

it’s definitely not a huge pec builder. It’s definitely a superior Yoke builder and tricep builder though.

no problem… let me know if you have other questions.

107

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
…believe it or not, my traps and rear delts blew up from doing reverse grip bench…[/quote]

MM, would you mind elaborating on how this happens? Is it due to stabilization, or something else?[/quote]
.

last year at the SPF Worlds i smacked one of my training partners before a big deadlift attempt and tweaked my front delt pretty bad. I couldn’t bench with a regular grip without major pain. I tried a few different bench variations but the all hurt my shoulder. Then one day i remembered seeing the barbarian brothers doing reverse grip bench presses. I saw one of them fail at 500 and of course i wanted to do more than that:) I decided to give them a shot and suprisingly i had no anterior shoulder pain at all.

The reason for this- The reverse grip bench is a lot like a really heavy face pull. If you’ve ever done those, you will understand. The upper back, medial and posterior delts pretty much support most of the weight. Theres substantially less anterior delt and pec involvement. The inner tricep also support a ton of the weight and is involved in most of the pressing.

At first the movement was very awkward and i was as weak as a kitten at them. I stuck with them out of necessity though and over a six month period, my reverse grip bench went from 225lbs to 520lbs.

A very unexpected result was all those muscles used to stablilize and lower all that weight ballooned up. It’s one thing to shrug a bunch of weight through a pretty short ROM, but it’s another to lower a huge load through a pretty big ROM and then hold it there at chest level.

I really didn’t realize how unbalanced my shoulders were before all of this. My anterior delts were way ahead of the rest of my should development. Now my shoulders are very balanced and my upper back and traps pop out.

So, to answer your question, it’s all about stabilizing all that weight on the way down and then holding it there at chest level while flexing the shoulders, upper back and traps.

I’ve recently switched back to a regular grip on bench and my shoulders are all healed up and I can lower the weight with so much more control now.

I’ve said this before, everyone should include reverse grip benching in their routines. [/quote]

Thanks, MM. I’ve tried these a total of once, and like you said, it was awkward, so I didn’t pursue it. it was also when I was much younger so didn’t have the patience to keep at it to figure it out. Any technique tips you can give? I think this is something I’ll give a shot at for a while, that area is one I’d like to improve.

[/quote]

i’m going to paste in a vid of one of my reverse grip benches that may help.

as for tips, hand placement is very important. you need to find a distance on the bar that allows you to get the most tricep acticvation plus stability. i place the edge of the heel of my hand on the rings. i also place the bar across my hands so that they are almost parallel to the bar. the bar sits right in the middle of my hands with the bar between my index and middle.

also, i lower the bar pretty much straight down and then as i press, i press towards my feet. not back towards the shoulders like a typical regular grip bench.

the great thing about reverse grip is that you don’t even have to think about tucking the elbows. it all happens very naturally.

[/quote]

108

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Solution: hammer Strength shrugs. I have been doing those the majority of the time I’ve lifted meaning they are why my traps look like this. They work and there is no bar. I would ONLY use a barbell if I had no access to a plate loaded machine like this. get up to doing 6 plates a side for slow reps with no gloves and tell me if your traps are still small.[/quote]

I’ve tried these and they’re my favorite. Zero back pain when I’m not injured. My current gym doesn’t have them though. It’s a college gym that only has a couple HS machines.[/quote]

If you are doing regular barbell shrugs, your knees should be slightly bent. It means your own aren’t if you are having trouble catching your dick with the bar. It sounds like you are having a posture issue.[/quote]

This might be it. I’ve always had posture issues in general so it might be carrying over into this lift. At the moment, I can’t picture whether I bend my knees or not. I’ll make a mental note next time in the gym. Thanks.

109

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]worzel wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Reverse Grip Bench
[/quote]

MM I have only ever seen this performed once because the guy in question was injured (as in your case) so would you rate this exercise as something that should be part of normal programming or just use it in an injury situation as you did?

Did you keep the shoulder blades pinched together throughout the movement?

You said there there was little pec involvement so you would’nt consider this a pec builder?

Very interesting about the rear delts (shoulders balancing out).

Apologies for all the Q’s

Thanks!
[/quote]
IMHO, it should definitely be in the rotation. i used it originally for rehab but it has done so much for overall balance, mass and strength that i’ll definitely keep it in the rotation.

it’s definitely not a huge pec builder. It’s definitely a superior Yoke builder and tricep builder though.

no problem… let me know if you have other questions.

[/quote]

Great thanks’ much appreciated!

110

Has anyone else noticed that the “peanut gallery” filled with jackasses who do nothing but try to throw insults (even enough to create new accounts just for it) are fucking up good discussions?

This is why the T-cell was created.

111

Hey X

Are you talking about the Hammer Strength Flat BP that could also be used for shrugs, or the actual hammer strength shrug machine where you can also shrug seated.

112

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hise Shurugs? in addition to the usual Heavy BB shrugs, no one does heavy dumbell shrugs, I tend to like them better than BB shrugs[/quote]

So did I, when I was doing shrugs. I felt I could get a better ROM and contraction at the top when I didn’t have a bar crushing my crotch. [/quote]

This is the reason I can’t do BB shrugs. If I’m upright, I’m shrugging the bar into my shlong. If I slightly move my hips back to avoid this, it aggravates my herniated discs. I’m lucky enough to have a trap bar at my gym to avoid this.[/quote]

LOL same issue, to much friction with schlong no good when cardio bunnies abound

113

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the “peanut gallery” filled with jackasses who do nothing but try to throw insults (even enough to create new accounts just for it) are fucking up good discussions?

This is why the T-cell was created.
[/quote]

There was like 3 of them in this thread alone. It’s pretty pathetic.

114

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hise Shurugs? in addition to the usual Heavy BB shrugs, no one does heavy dumbell shrugs, I tend to like them better than BB shrugs[/quote]

So did I, when I was doing shrugs. I felt I could get a better ROM and contraction at the top when I didn’t have a bar crushing my crotch. [/quote]

This is the reason I can’t do BB shrugs. If I’m upright, I’m shrugging the bar into my shlong. If I slightly move my hips back to avoid this, it aggravates my herniated discs. I’m lucky enough to have a trap bar at my gym to avoid this.[/quote]

Solution: hammer Strength shrugs. I have been doing those the majority of the time I’ve lifted meaning they are why my traps look like this. They work and there is no bar. I would ONLY use a barbell if I had no access to a plate loaded machine like this. get up to doing 6 plates a side for slow reps with no gloves and tell me if your traps are still small.[/quote]

Yeah, those two. That machine really takes the brunt off the spine too.

115

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that the “peanut gallery” filled with jackasses who do nothing but try to throw insults (even enough to create new accounts just for it) are fucking up good discussions?

This is why the T-cell was created.
[/quote]

GTFO

The peanut gallery didnt derail shit in this thread.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Of all the times I’ve seen people do shrugs in the gym I’ve never seen any of them with good trap development. I feel like any row, deadlift and power cleans are much more effective.

Not saying shrugs don’t work, I’m just not a fan.

professor X wrote:
How many people do you see with good traps period? Hell, even on this site how many people here really have stand out trap development that really looks like they pout some time into it?

Really. How many?

Let’s post pics for confirmation.

Most of the people I see doing shrugs aren’t going that heavy…or they cheat too much…or they haven’t even been lifting that long.

While we’re at it, I don’t see anyone with huge traps who focuses intently on deadlifts and rack pulls either.
[/quote]

[quote]
profX
No one said shrugs were the ONLY way to train that area, but if your goal is development of traps, train them directly first before you add in tons of exercises under the belief that working it directly is somehow inferior.

Why pass up the most direct and efficient route under the assumption that it isn’t good enough?

Your last sentence may be right, but what good would it do to discuss ANY of this if we assume none of these guys have the potential? [/quote]

That exchange right there. That’s called derailing a therad. You asked waylander how many people he sees with big traps, regardless of their training approach. Then you asked what the point of discussing underachievers was. YOU BROUGHT IT UP.

But yea, everyones picking on you becuase youre special. No. You arent. You say dumb shit just like anyone else does.

You are no god of the internet forum. Get over yourself. This is a joke. The amount of hubris displayed in your posts in this thread is absurd. But everyone’s picking on you becuase its the cool thing to do. Sure.

And maybe no one said anything to FattyFat because he doesnt preach his training methods as gospel when there are people just as big and bigger saying otherwise.

Im done. This thread is miserable.

edited

116

I got to agree with Bonez, particularly about the hubris in your posts. No one really ‘derailed’ this thread, except from maybe one person who created an account and posted once, big deal. There are different methods to reach the same goal (a big yoke). Saying something like “I don’t do half that shit” adds nothing to the discussion. I’m just trying to give options to the OP from a man, Jim Wendler, who has a big yoke, and he uses those exercises I gave out.

And that’s going to be my last comment, because this thread can actually be good due to maraudermeat’s discussion of the reverse bench press. The ‘face pull’ comment he made was particularly interesting, about how he is lowering a heavy ass load and that his stabilizer muscles came into play which = bigger yoke.

117

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

That exchange right there. That’s called derailing a therad. You asked waylander how many people he sees with big traps, regardless of their training approach. Then you asked what the point of discussing underachievers was. YOU BROUGHT IT UP.
[/quote]

Once again, I wrote that after HE wrote that he saw no one with big traps who did shrugs. That means HE ALONE brought up underachievers first. My response was to show that most people don’t have huge traps making his observation irrelevant.

I don’t see how in the world that needs that much explanation.

118

lol

MM I gotta say after reading all that about reverse grip benches I am definitely going to throw them in on my rotation. I’ll try them tomorrow actually.

119

It isn’t that complicated.

Shrugs
High/Low Pull’s (these made my traps explode)
Deadlifts

to a lesser extent Upright Rows.

You can power clean/snatch as well, but if your just looking to add size then its a lot of work to master the lift just for trap size.

120

I just wanted to say I successfully reverse grip pressed today

I’ve had shoulder impingement and haven’t been able to do any upper body work except for a couple curl and tricep extension variations, but I tried the reverse grip and it didn’t hurt! I’m fuckin excited.

121

What about direct neck training with harness etc? Seems that almost nobody uses it, but this is probably the only exercise which is specialized on the neck itself.