Help Building a Yoke

Training Bodybuilding
82

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ty Carlson wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ag918w35 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

  1. Deadlift

  2. Power cleans

  3. BB or DB rows

  4. Neck Harness

  5. Shoulder girdle stuff: Face pulls, rear laterals, Joe DeFranco scarecrow, etc

  6. Optional: shrugs.

Credit to Jim Wendler on these suggestions. He has one big fucking yoke.[/quote]

I don’t do half that shit and have traps about that size.[/quote]

I thought your advice was to watch what the guys with big traps do and follow that, rather than listen to some random guy spouting what he read on another site. So, the poster put up a program recommended by a guy with big traps and now you’re saying it doesn’t count because he doesn’t train to be a body-builder?

Would any advice that differed from what works for you be acceptable to you? Just because your program has clearly worked for you doesn’t mean that 1) it will work for everybody and 2) no other program will work.[/quote]

Wait, are you really asking why would you listen to someone who is big and trains like you will train? That needs an explanation?

I am also commenting on SOMEONE ELSE writing what SOMEONE ELSE does WHO ISN’T THEM when that very person may not even recommend doing the same if they were here themselves.

Ask Jim Wendler if he thinks you should do all of that just for direct trap growth. Don’t listen to some OTHER GUY on the internet acting like he is speaking for the man.

Most of the guys here don’t have really big traps yet are speaking for other people and acting like they do.

Bottom line, Jim Wendler didn’t write that advice to you. You didn’t even ask Jim Wendler. Some random guy who isn’t big spoke for Jim Wendler and you ate it up. How the hell does that make sense?[/quote]

Actually, those 6 suggestions were taken directly from an article on elitefts.com that was written by Jim Wendler about “building a massive yoke” or something like that

…so yeah, that advice actually was written by Jim Wendler.

but since the great ProfX said different, Jim must be wrong…I guess someone should inform him :frowning:
[/quote]

This post is dumb. No one said Jim Wendler is wrong. I said go to the source. That is what that post means. [/quote]

Digging it deeper

Why is it so hard to soften your stance on something you clearly overstated?

83

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Of all the times I’ve seen people do shrugs in the gym I’ve never seen any of them with good trap development. I feel like any row, deadlift and power cleans are much more effective.

Not saying shrugs don’t work, I’m just not a fan.[/quote]

How many people do you see with good traps period? Hell, even on this site how many people here really have stand out trap development that really looks like they pout some time into it?

Really. How many?

Let’s post pics for confirmation.

Most of the people I see doing shrugs aren’t going that heavy…or they cheat too much…or they haven’t even been lifting that long.

While we’re at it, I don’t see anyone with huge traps who focuses intently on deadlifts and rack pulls either.[/quote]

Im sure Im not the only person who’s first language is english that sees how this is completely lacking any logic.

How does the underachievement of others have anything to do with what things work to build big traps?

None of the substance in your posts is untrue but how does it apply at all to what’s being discussed. Usually you ask your own questions and then asnswer them but this time youre just talking about random shit.

If Wendlers stuff doesnt work BECAUSE people underacheive how would shrugs change anything?

If you cant acknowledge that there’s more than one way to skin a cat it’s impossible to disagree with what Wendler said. Seriously.

Instead of avoiding saying that things besides shrugs work by changing the subject, just save some face and concede that people get big without doing every/only things you do.

Do you have some bet with someone that you will never admit error on the internet or something? Shit’s weird[/quote]

Genius, Way is the one who used the underachievment of others by using it in relation to shrugs…as if shrugs don’t work because he doesn’t see people with big traps who do them.

I simply tossed it back at him…yet you came after me for it and not him.

Interesting.
[/quote]

Its not really that interesting.

I was referring to each post you made after the guy posted the picture of Wendler.

I do shrugs for my primary trap builder. Wendler doesnt. You do. Waylander doesnt.

Thats 4 people at different levels of development who are doing things right using different methods.

CLEARLY shrugs are not the only OR best way to build big traps.

But Im of the opinion that genetics are the best way to build big traps (overall and compared to other muscles) so I believe that providing as many reasonable choices as possible is the way to go.

Or just do shrugs, who gives a fuck, it’s the internet and 85% of the people reading this wont build big traps because girls think theyre gross. [/quote]

No one said shrugs were the ONLY way to train that area, but if your goal is development of traps, train them directly first before you add in tons of exercises under the belief that working it directly is somehow inferior.

Why pass up the most direct and efficient route under the assumption that it isn’t good enough?

Your last sentence may be right, but what good would it do to discuss ANY of this if we assume none of these guys have the potential?[/quote]

You tell me? Youre the one that brought up ‘underachievement’ as a possible reason, in the first place.

Shrugs are the most direct and efficient route FOR YOU. Stop purposely ignoring the logic behind this shit. You sound dumb as shit right now. Over and over people are saying that there are mulipe ways to get to the final point but you, for some bizarre reason, insist that shrugs are the necessary method for big traps. CLEARLY YOU ARE WRONG. Traps are not something like lateral delts or the long head of the triceps that requires very specific movements to even activate the muscle.

The traps get a ton of work doing quite a few things that allow for heavy ass weight.

It’s almost as if youre trolling this thread at this point.

84

[quote]Jab1 wrote:
The reading comprehension of some people is shockingly poor. Somehow people took X saying “don’t listen to some random, go to the source” (in this case Jim Wendler) and thought he wrote “Jim Wendler is wrong, shrugs are the ONLY thing that builds traps, SO LONG as you eat enough hamburgers”.

My mind = blown. People read what they want to read and seem to ignore the actual words on the page.

In terms of the topic, I agree with Bonez about the role genetics play. I never do shrugs and my traps seem to grow faster than anything else and I feel them in just about any back movement I do - maybe I’m doing those wrong though. I’m still unimpressive so take that for what it’s worth.[/quote]

Explain the point of a post saying “I dont do half those things” in response to what Wendler says. How the hell does have anything to do with building a big neck and traps??

85

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
Baby traps!

[photo]30641[/photo][/quote]

Dude, you picked a bad picture to show off those traps!

86

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Jab1 wrote:
The reading comprehension of some people is shockingly poor. Somehow people took X saying “don’t listen to some random, go to the source” (in this case Jim Wendler) and thought he wrote “Jim Wendler is wrong, shrugs are the ONLY thing that builds traps, SO LONG as you eat enough hamburgers”.

My mind = blown. People read what they want to read and seem to ignore the actual words on the page.

In terms of the topic, I agree with Bonez about the role genetics play. I never do shrugs and my traps seem to grow faster than anything else and I feel them in just about any back movement I do - maybe I’m doing those wrong though. I’m still unimpressive so take that for what it’s worth.[/quote]

Explain the point of a post saying “I dont do half those things” in response to what Wendler says. How the hell does have anything to do with building a big neck and traps??
[/quote]

Wait, you mean BESIDES showing that you can build a huge yoke without worrying about power cleans or “face pulls” meaning that working from the basics (meaning DIRECTLY) and THEN going from there in finding what works best for you should be the goal?

You mean BESIDES making the point that simply following the crowd as far as what is popular now is NOT the way to go because let’s face it, if you CAN’T build big traps without doing 500 hundred obscure movements you probably don’t have the genetics for this?

No one was arguing WITH Jim Wendler and Jab1 understood what I wrote just fine.

87

[quote]Jab1 wrote:
The reading comprehension of some people is shockingly poor. Somehow people took X saying “don’t listen to some random, go to the source” (in this case Jim Wendler) and thought he wrote “Jim Wendler is wrong, shrugs are the ONLY thing that builds traps, SO LONG as you eat enough hamburgers”.

My mind = blown. People read what they want to read and seem to ignore the actual words on the page.

In terms of the topic, I agree with Bonez about the role genetics play. I never do shrugs and my traps seem to grow faster than anything else and I feel them in just about any back movement I do - maybe I’m doing those wrong though. I’m still unimpressive so take that for what it’s worth.[/quote]

It amazes me as well, but they often seem to spend more time trying to find SOMETHING to argue with in my posts…like that argument after the Olympia because I dared to write that I hope my back is about the size of one of the competitors now. That one caused the same type of response. They don’t read or understand anymore. They just look for certain words to complain about.

88

[quote]FattyFat wrote:

But seeing how shrugs can be learned way easier than rows, why overcomplicate matters?
Any maybe BONEZ isn’t that far off the mark: either you have traps or you don’t. I had good traps, bis, quads and delts before I took up lifting.

They’re still my best body parts although I’m neglecting the shit out of them.
Shrugs work, but you have to do them right (I’m a genius, I know) or you’re not going to be able to use a lot of weight in a progressive manner before fucking yourself up.
Just tell me a beginner who has no problems squatting twice his bw for reps? There are just a few.
But shrugging at least 1.5 your bw for reps after a few months of training isn’t all that hard.

[/quote]

Hey, I wrote pretty much the same thing but I don’t see anyone attacking you for it.

89

believe it or not, my traps and rear delts blew up from doing reverse grip bench. traps have never been a strong point for me but now they are very large. they almost over power my shoulders now. and i’ve tried everything over the years- really heavy shrugs, deadlifting, upright rows, bent over rows, face pulls, ect.

it just goes to show that everyone will have to find that movement that those stubborn bodyparts will respond to.

90

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]FattyFat wrote:

But seeing how shrugs can be learned way easier than rows, why overcomplicate matters?
Any maybe BONEZ isn’t that far off the mark: either you have traps or you don’t. I had good traps, bis, quads and delts before I took up lifting.

They’re still my best body parts although I’m neglecting the shit out of them.
Shrugs work, but you have to do them right (I’m a genius, I know) or you’re not going to be able to use a lot of weight in a progressive manner before fucking yourself up.
Just tell me a beginner who has no problems squatting twice his bw for reps? There are just a few.
But shrugging at least 1.5 your bw for reps after a few months of training isn’t all that hard.

[/quote]

Hey, I wrote pretty much the same thing but I don’t see anyone attacking you for it.
[/quote]

Well, not intending to derail this, but since you asked…

Maybe because I’m not at your size.

See it this way: at least they’re bullying the big guys. And most of them need to gang up to do that.

Honestly, though, I have a hunch they get a kick out of it because you’re diligent and reply to every attack, be it grounded on verifiable criticism or shit. I remember a few arguments a few weeks back, when some of the heavier hitters, here, challenged your POV a few times. Some of the criticism might have been valid.
Then, all of a sudden, a few of your non-fans you’ve accumulated over the years got emboldened enough to crawl out of the woodworks to ‘harrass’ you :wink:

Then, sometimes, you might come across as a frustrated know-it-all. Not to me, but not everybody’s as cool, relaxed, handsome, suave and intelligent a hunk as I am, so…
This is the internet. The majority of people is frustrated in real life. You’re a good target for venting off some built-up steam for some of them. I can pick out the crucial bb-oriented info you’re putting out, but maybe not everyone can or wants to.

Just let shit slide, man: this is one of the very few times where it’s actually OK to fuck up the rotation.

<3 U, bro.

PS: if the harrassment shouldn’t stop, maybe give Pechnak of Veluca a call. I guess he’ll gladly take care of your non-fans.

91

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
believe it or not, my traps and rear delts blew up from doing reverse grip bench. traps have never been a strong point for me but now they are very large. they almost over power my shoulders now. and i’ve tried everything over the years- really heavy shrugs, deadlifting, upright rows, bent over rows, face pulls, ect.

it just goes to show that everyone will have to find that movement that those stubborn bodyparts will respond to. [/quote]

Can we maybe just leave it at this post here?

…probably not.

92

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
…believe it or not, my traps and rear delts blew up from doing reverse grip bench…[/quote]

MM, would you mind elaborating on how this happens? Is it due to stabilization, or something else?

93

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
…believe it or not, my traps and rear delts blew up from doing reverse grip bench…[/quote]

MM, would you mind elaborating on how this happens? Is it due to stabilization, or something else?[/quote]

last year at the SPF Worlds i smacked one of my training partners before a big deadlift attempt and tweaked my front delt pretty bad. I couldn’t bench with a regular grip without major pain. I tried a few different bench variations but the all hurt my shoulder. Then one day i remembered seeing the barbarian brothers doing reverse grip bench presses. I saw one of them fail at 500 and of course i wanted to do more than that:) I decided to give them a shot and suprisingly i had no anterior shoulder pain at all.

The reason for this- The reverse grip bench is a lot like a really heavy face pull. If you’ve ever done those, you will understand. The upper back, medial and posterior delts pretty much support most of the weight. Theres substantially less anterior delt and pec involvement. The inner tricep also support a ton of the weight and is involved in most of the pressing.

At first the movement was very awkward and i was as weak as a kitten at them. I stuck with them out of necessity though and over a six month period, my reverse grip bench went from 225lbs to 520lbs.

A very unexpected result was all those muscles used to stablilize and lower all that weight ballooned up. It’s one thing to shrug a bunch of weight through a pretty short ROM, but it’s another to lower a huge load through a pretty big ROM and then hold it there at chest level.

I really didn’t realize how unbalanced my shoulders were before all of this. My anterior delts were way ahead of the rest of my should development. Now my shoulders are very balanced and my upper back and traps pop out.

So, to answer your question, it’s all about stabilizing all that weight on the way down and then holding it there at chest level while flexing the shoulders, upper back and traps.

I’ve recently switched back to a regular grip on bench and my shoulders are all healed up and I can lower the weight with so much more control now.

I’ve said this before, everyone should include reverse grip benching in their routines.

94

hey MM, i do reverse grip in a smith machine, do you think this still applies?

95

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
…believe it or not, my traps and rear delts blew up from doing reverse grip bench…[/quote]

MM, would you mind elaborating on how this happens? Is it due to stabilization, or something else?[/quote]

last year at the SPF Worlds i smacked one of my training partners before a big deadlift attempt and tweaked my front delt pretty bad. I couldn’t bench with a regular grip without major pain. I tried a few different bench variations but the all hurt my shoulder. Then one day i remembered seeing the barbarian brothers doing reverse grip bench presses. I saw one of them fail at 500 and of course i wanted to do more than that:) I decided to give them a shot and suprisingly i had no anterior shoulder pain at all.

The reason for this- The reverse grip bench is a lot like a really heavy face pull. If you’ve ever done those, you will understand. The upper back, medial and posterior delts pretty much support most of the weight. Theres substantially less anterior delt and pec involvement. The inner tricep also support a ton of the weight and is involved in most of the pressing.

At first the movement was very awkward and i was as weak as a kitten at them. I stuck with them out of necessity though and over a six month period, my reverse grip bench went from 225lbs to 520lbs.

A very unexpected result was all those muscles used to stablilize and lower all that weight ballooned up. It’s one thing to shrug a bunch of weight through a pretty short ROM, but it’s another to lower a huge load through a pretty big ROM and then hold it there at chest level.

I really didn’t realize how unbalanced my shoulders were before all of this. My anterior delts were way ahead of the rest of my should development. Now my shoulders are very balanced and my upper back and traps pop out.

So, to answer your question, it’s all about stabilizing all that weight on the way down and then holding it there at chest level while flexing the shoulders, upper back and traps.

I’ve recently switched back to a regular grip on bench and my shoulders are all healed up and I can lower the weight with so much more control now.

I’ve said this before, everyone should include reverse grip benching in their routines. [/quote]

Thanks, MM. I’ve tried these a total of once, and like you said, it was awkward, so I didn’t pursue it. it was also when I was much younger so didn’t have the patience to keep at it to figure it out. Any technique tips you can give? I think this is something I’ll give a shot at for a while, that area is one I’d like to improve.

96

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hise Shurugs? in addition to the usual Heavy BB shrugs, no one does heavy dumbell shrugs, I tend to like them better than BB shrugs[/quote]

So did I, when I was doing shrugs. I felt I could get a better ROM and contraction at the top when I didn’t have a bar crushing my crotch.

97

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Explain the point of a post saying “I dont do half those things” in response to what Wendler says. How the hell does have anything to do with building a big neck and traps??
[/quote]
Considering X had already mentioned his primary way of building traps I took it to mean “there are different ways of achieving this goal, but start simply”. I don’t think that’s too far off the mark.

98

Type this exact phrase into google search box (“quotes too”)

jim wendler “the yoke”

It’ll be the first hit. Good article by someone with a big yoke. It’s not just a list of exercises, it’s the how’s and why’s. There’s 8 varations of shrugs on along with a bunch of other exercise listed in this thread. It’s an entertaining read too.

99

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hise Shurugs? in addition to the usual Heavy BB shrugs, no one does heavy dumbell shrugs, I tend to like them better than BB shrugs[/quote]

So did I, when I was doing shrugs. I felt I could get a better ROM and contraction at the top when I didn’t have a bar crushing my crotch. [/quote]

This is the reason I can’t do BB shrugs. If I’m upright, I’m shrugging the bar into my shlong. If I slightly move my hips back to avoid this, it aggravates my herniated discs. I’m lucky enough to have a trap bar at my gym to avoid this.

100

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hise Shurugs? in addition to the usual Heavy BB shrugs, no one does heavy dumbell shrugs, I tend to like them better than BB shrugs[/quote]

So did I, when I was doing shrugs. I felt I could get a better ROM and contraction at the top when I didn’t have a bar crushing my crotch. [/quote]

This is the reason I can’t do BB shrugs. If I’m upright, I’m shrugging the bar into my shlong. If I slightly move my hips back to avoid this, it aggravates my herniated discs. I’m lucky enough to have a trap bar at my gym to avoid this.[/quote]

Solution: hammer Strength shrugs. I have been doing those the majority of the time I’ve lifted meaning they are why my traps look like this. They work and there is no bar. I would ONLY use a barbell if I had no access to a plate loaded machine like this. get up to doing 6 plates a side for slow reps with no gloves and tell me if your traps are still small.

101

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Solution: hammer Strength shrugs. I have been doing those the majority of the time I’ve lifted meaning they are why my traps look like this. They work and there is no bar. I would ONLY use a barbell if I had no access to a plate loaded machine like this. get up to doing 6 plates a side for slow reps with no gloves and tell me if your traps are still small.[/quote]

I’ve tried these and they’re my favorite. Zero back pain when I’m not injured. My current gym doesn’t have them though. It’s a college gym that only has a couple HS machines.