[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
humble wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
humble wrote:
The Prophet Muhammad had a Jewish neighbor. His neighbor quite disliked him and his preaching so would make it his mission to offend him. He’d throw garbage and dead animals towards his house often.
One day, Muhammad noticed that he didn’t receive any garbage from the man and because this wasn’t the norm, he grew concerned and visited him.
Upon receiving him, his neighbor was surprised and asked him about the nature of his visit.
Muhammad told him that he was used to receiving garbage from him on a daily basis and when he didn’t he was afraid something was wrong with him. The neighbor again moved by this informed him he was ill and felt guilty for his actions and embraced him and his teachings.
I wonder if you have read the Koran. (Many Muslims have not, and the same is true for most non-Muslims who feel a drive to praise Islam.)
I have. I did skim the poetic passages, I will admit, but the theological and historical passages I read every word.
Don’t recall your story.
Do recall instances of attacking, killing, and robbing simply for not being Muslim. Do recall passages directly instructing to kill the infidel for no reason other than not being Muslim and not converting.
Your “history” is fantasy. I will accept the Koran as being historically accurate regarding the deeds of Mohammed, but not “histories” written long after and not provably based on contemporary documents.
I’ve read it in the language it was revealed and the only language it’s true meaning can be understood. Everything else is otherwise translation of supposed meaning.
Excuse.
Sorry, there is no credible claim that the Arabic does not have the same meanings with regard to the instructions and histories in question.
Your story is fantasy, not proven history.
It’s pathetic that you had to reach for an ADMITTEDLY unreliable anecdotal source to make your case, not the Koran.
Perhaps you’re not quite aware of the basis by which Muslim belief is founded, that is, the Quran and the Sunnah. Don’t google it… you do know about this yes?
Yes.
And as the latter contains untrue material, fantasy, Muslim scholars have had to come up with methods to determine which parts are considered true and which are not. No one claims that it is inerrant or that every account in it actually happened – at least not among educated Muslims.
tIn you’re adventurous yet seemingly poor research which seems lackluster at best and downright ignorant at worst, did you ever come across the sunnah and what it means?
In you’re research surely you came across the term mutawatir and what it means… you know, being the expert you are reading a doctrinal and divine text in the unintended merely translated language.
Excuse.
The instructions and deeds in question happened.
Whereas to prove your case on the matter in question, you have to cite a fantasy rather than being able to prove it from the Koran.
Ok, your turn to post some hate filled twisted interpretations of what you think passages mean. I sit at your feet oh scholarly one.
Ad hominem. They say what they say, while you have to cite fantasy to make your case, and make ridiculous excuses that just no one in the world can get the meaning right on anything at all so the instructions to kill unbelievers aren’t really there, the murderous acts of Mohammed as the Prophet aren’t really there, the great charity of Mohammed isn’t really lacking, a humble and mild attitude towards those who acted offensively or disrespectfully to him (as in your fantasy) isn’t really lacking, etc.
Why, it’s the translation that’s to blame. Actually the truth is just totally the opposite, don’cha know! Like totally!
What an excuse, blaming translations for anything and everything.
It’s one thing to point out that a word here and a word there are problematic, but the blanket excuse so typically made and that you make is pathetic. Man up and agree that the history and general meaning of statements of the Koran as translated into English by Muslim scholars are generally about what it says. But you won’t because you rely on the excuse. You have to have the excuse, because of what the Koran says.
Goodbye.[/quote]
There is of course huge flaws in this tired excuse that those who don’t speak Arabic can’t know the “true Islam”. The majority of Muslims are not Arabs and do not speak Arabic.
So if Humble is correct then the majority of Muslims do not understand their holy book because they don’t speak Arabic. Or to look at it another way using Humbles standard, the Muslims who best understand the true meaning of their Holy book and therefore are the most accurate practitioners of their faith are the Arabs.
So by Humble’s standard, if we want to understand what Islam truly is about we should consider the Saudi’s to be the best representatives. On the other hand more moderate Muslims like the Indonesians, Turks, Uigher’s, Sufi’s are by Humble’s standard not practicing the religion properly because they can’t properly understand the religion through a translation.
If we accept Humble’s standard as fact it doesn’t look good for Islam, because the most moderate Islamic countries are the ones that don’t understand the religion properly. While the countries that are the most fucked up also happen to be the ones who understand the religion the best.