[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
holy shit rattler, is your avatar a recent pic? you are one LEAN dude. what do you weight right now, how tall?
[/quote]
I’m hovering at 160lbs at 6 foot, aint big 
[/quote]
Well, you’re looking damn impressive![/quote]
thank you 
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
HT, keep battling brother. You have a lot of people cheering your on.[/quote]
thanks!
[/quote]
Slide over super saying we need more room on the HT bandwagon!! GO HT!!
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
anyhoo, if Z and Strong are still interested in helping me, i would like to hear their opinions on whats up with my appetite, (213 lbs yesterday, thats 7lbs down in 5 days)
and any suggestions on low body training while my groin is healing up, i would like to hear them. [/quote]
I imagine this is your body getting used to a non-junk diet. The appetite does weird things, especially with inconcsistent and oddly-timed sleep cycles like you have with your job.
As far as lower body training, keep things moving, do what you can without re-injury. We’ll add the heavy stuff back in once you’re healed up. Stretch and mobilize daily, do the pump stuff when possible, and other than that, let it heal.
I hope you didn’t take my posts as attacks on you, big guy. Tough love is required with this stuff, but most of the hostility in my posts was directed at the couple of other posters who seemed to be pretty intent on excusing noncompliance. The absolute worst thing for someone who is trying to establish a new level of discipline for themselves with their first prep or serious fat loss phase is people going back against the coach telling them that it’s ok that they don’t stick to the plan because the plan is hard.
It’s enabling and a disservice to YOU because it’s getting in the way of YOU making the changes you need to make in order to achieve your goals. I’m successful when you’re successful, so I’m only saying things because I think they’re in your best interest.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
This being the first time he’s ever dieted down is exactly why excuses like “I don’t have time to boil eggs once a week” shouldn’t be acceptable. This is hard because it’s something he’s never done before.
This isn’t about someone being a stand-up guy. I know plenty of great people who will make all sorts of excuses for why they can’t eat better. This isn’t a matter of morality or good people vs. bad people, this is a matter of wanting something badly enought to remove the word “can’t” from the vocabulary and find a way to get it done.
Here’s a newsflash: there are a ton of bodybuilders out there that do what it takes to get shredded and stay lean, and they do it on a regular basis. 99.9% of them aren’t IFBB professionals and have other obligations. I don’t know where you’re from, USMCCDS, but you should go to the next NPC show in your area. Everyone on stage there is going to be a guy with a job, a wife or a girlfriend, and possibly a kid. Everyone on stage there is going to the sort of lean that HT wants to be, and all of them will have managed to do it in spite of all of the other obligations in their lives.
Like I said, I like HT, too. He’s a good guy. I’m providing him a service right now that I would normally charge someone about $100/month for totaly free, I wouldn’t do that if I didn’t respect the dude. Part of what comes with respect is the willingness to call someone on their own bullshit when they’re about to short change themselves.[/quote]
This is the last post I will make because the thread is a good one. You and ZRAW are obviously providing a service here that is above and beyond just helping someone out.
That said, I have often found encouragement is better than discouragement. Honey vs. vinager type of thing. To say someone is just plain lazy because they didn’t pre-cook their meals is harsh. From these forums anyone can see HeavyThrower is anything but lazy. Being that he has never dieted down these types of stumbles should be expected. Did you or ZRAW ever stumble on your diets? Did Stu or CT or anyone else for that matter ever take 2 steps forward 1 step back? The guy works is ass off helping people all day and from what I can gather is working his ass off to get lean. Can he find time to boil eggs, sure he can. Does he need to be called lazy because he didn’t, no. That’s all I’m saying.
Good for all these other bodybuilders working and getting shredded, that is their PASSION. This is a first step for HeavyThrower. There is a huge difference. Unless I missed something he isn’t dieting down to walk on stage, it’s for his health and I suppose for fun.
Lastly, I’m getting pretty sick of seeing people write stuff like, “I’d normal charge $100 dollars for my services,” either volunteer your time or don’t. Can you see how frustrating it is to read that? It’s like you want to help, but you also want it known that your valuable. I get it your volunteering a service for free, I mean this sincerely, good on you, it’s awesome truly. You just don’t need to remind us every freakin day.
Anyway, I still thing these threads are great. You, Zraw, etc… are stand up guys and the forum needs guys like you. I’d just hate to see a guy like HeavyThrower get discouraged this early on because of word choice or accusations.
Like I said even if you respond, this is the last I’ll post. Please keep up the good work.
-Chris [/quote]
My problem with your poss is that you are enabling excuse making. No offense man, but people with attitudes like yours are a big reason why many fail on diets.
Encouragement is “come on HT, there’s a way to get it done! You can do it!”, enabling is “I believe him when he says he is too busy, if you were a better coach, you would help him adjust.”
THAT is offensive to Z and I. This diet and program is already tailored to a hectic lifestyle. We expect HT to meet us half way with this, and I think he’s getting to where he is figuring out how to do that. That’s a big part of the growth that happens when people undertake something like this. Have you ever gotten seriously lean, USMCCDS? There’s a lot that goes into the mental game here for first timers like HT that I don’t think you’re getting.
And real quick, a personal rant in response to this:
Lastly, I’m getting pretty sick of seeing people write stuff like, “I’d normal charge $100 dollars for my services,” either volunteer your time or don’t. Can you see how frustrating it is to read that? It’s like you want to help, but you also want it known that your valuable. I get it your volunteering a service for free, I mean this sincerely, good on you, it’s awesome truly. You just don’t need to remind us every freakin day.
Fucking please. We’re irritating you because we’re offering our services and daily feedback for free and expecting the client to meet us halfway? Sack up, bud. Our only compensation for spending them time we’re spending is the client’s success. If the client can’t work with us, then we’re wasting our time. Sorry if it offends your delicate sensibilities that we aren’t interested in wasting our time. We bring it up when the clients push back. It’s a reminder that we don’t have to do this. We want to help, but we want the clients (and I’m not referring specifically to HT, but to all of the coaching subjects who have gone through this now to an extent) to realize that our services are take it or leave it. We’re doing this for free, so they don’t get to make the rules.
Speaking of frustrating, do you understand how frustrating it is as a coach to see someone come into threads and tell a client who is struggling that is OK to break the rules, that its OK to just keep doing what they’ve always done? That’s what YOU are doing, and it’s far less constructive than anything Z or I have posted in this thread.
/Rant.
Good work on putting it together, HT. Be like water: where there is no way, find a way.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
I am also a nurse, I work on the day shift (7a-7p) at New York Presbyterian on the cardiac surgery stepdown unit. Our surgeons average 8-10 cases a day, so we usually get between 5-10 admissions on my time in addition to the same number of discharges. Additionally, we do the most heart and solid organ transplants in the country IIRC, and we take the sickest patients that nobody else will in the area. So, we are very busy.
That being said, there is absolutely no reason HT cannot make his breakfast or even all of his meals the night before his next shift. Granted, I don’t work 5-6 shifts a week, but I can cook a week’s worth of food in under an hour (including prep) while running laundry at the same time. Now that I have a grill, I can probably cook even more food simultaneously after getting the timing down.
If he really doesn’t have the time to boil eggs every day, he can boil a few dozen at once on his day off and throw them in the fridge. Hell, he could boil eggs while he takes a shower, or while he eats a meal, or takes a dump… it isn’t that hard.
I see that he’s married, I’m not sure why his wife doesn’t help with meal prep here if it’s such a problem. If she is complaining about cooking “so much” every day, then get a slow cooker, throw a bunch of shit in there, set it and forget it.
HT, have you ever had your thyroid hormone levels checked? On 200mg of t cyp a week and 2 IU of GH/day, you should be getting leaner by accident IMO.[/quote]
hey to a fellow allied health professional! \
i have worked cardiac stepdown, cvicu, nticu, nicu, ticu. just about every kink of icu ecept burn. and none of those jobs had me hustling and on my feet RUNNING as much a ED.
i am not exaggerating, sometimes i go nearly 8 hours before i take my first piss break.
i have to eat on the run, and i usually do not take breaks, even though contract we are allowed 30 minutes during a 12 hour shift.
Z’s diet called for 2 shakes as my at work meals, and that works great, i have not missed any of them, though i remember not finishing the entire shake a couple of times.
[/quote]
Hard to take a 30 min break when you have gun shots and people on dopamine and one room with a psycho that has OD’d on valium [/quote]
or you are trying to establish an I-O access on a coding baby, when the 6 foot 200lbs homeless guy who is tripping on bath salts and meth the cops dumped on you busts into your room with screaming and flailing around, spraying everyone with the still connected but tubing tore in half IV in his arm with hepatitis infected blood,o
sigh, good times.
[/quote]
These story’s were always great for party’s HT, but honestly I dont miss them my friend. Thank you for your service and carrying the torch. When you are ready to semi-retire, I will find a job for you.[/quote]
be careful, i may hit you up for that one day. sometimes i wonder if i should just do vascular access full time (piccs, ios etc.)
[/quote]
that is a great idea. I don’t know how old you are (I’m guessing in your 40’s), but I’m only 31 and about 7.5 years served on this unit, and I’m already burned out despite my relatively easier circumstances (I don’t generally have large men barging into my room when I’m trying to start an IV). I’m already thinking about getting a cushier job elsewhere and I’m surprised you haven’t already. Working on a vascular access team and doing OT shifts or per diem work somewhere else would likely do you good. leave the ED to the young bucks.
I repeat my question: have you ever had your thyroid hormone levels checked?
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
it might be a good idea for you just to go insane with food for one day, literally just all you want and as much as you can to get kickstarted again?
Again, don’t flame me if my ideas are bro science/retarded/unfounded just typing thoughts as they come[/quote]
Jesus Christ, no. This is a bad idea.
Guys, is it too much to ask that the only people posting suggestions/protocols/whatever in these threads are the coaches themselves?
I know posts like this have good intentions, but you know what they say about good intentions.
Telling a fat guy who is trying to lose weight and establish good eating habits that “just going insane with food one day, literally all you want and as much as you can” is a viable strategy is enabling and planting a seed in his mind that may lead to a major falling off the wagon. I don’t know if you read his diet history, but this is basically what he’s done habitually in the past and it’s a big part of why he’s where he’s at now. Binge eating is never a viable strategy.
Contradicting the coaching is counterproductive, it undermines the client’s trust in the coach, can we please keep the static out of this thread and let Z and I provide the sole input? This thread is ZRaw and Stronghold helping HT transform himself, not the T-Nation Peanut Gallery weighing in on what they think is best.
If its okay with strong hold, I found this banded groin stretch to be helpful.
[quote]zraw wrote:
Here is what I would like every week, as a report
Yes for measurementa plz
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
i have been getting up just minutes before my shift start, and only have time for a shake, then i drink one shake at work
[/quote]
By the way, the point of my post(s) was not to talk you down or discourage you but this is what you wrote
This =/= not being able to stomach the food even if I try
Now what you are saying is you have trouble eating the food, which isnt the same.
What I do not want and absolutely hate is people that make false excuse. I’d much prefer a “I didnt prep my meal 1 and I have no excuse for it” then going as if you tried but couldnt make it
Now on the issue of you have trouble eating enough, when would you say are you the most hungry and the less hungry during the day/night
Do you notice appetite changes, at all?
[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:
I am also a nurse, I work on the day shift (7a-7p) at New York Presbyterian on the cardiac surgery stepdown unit. Our surgeons average 8-10 cases a day, so we usually get between 5-10 admissions on my time in addition to the same number of discharges. Additionally, we do the most heart and solid organ transplants in the country IIRC, and we take the sickest patients that nobody else will in the area. So, we are very busy.
That being said, there is absolutely no reason HT cannot make his breakfast or even all of his meals the night before his next shift. Granted, I don’t work 5-6 shifts a week, but I can cook a week’s worth of food in under an hour (including prep) while running laundry at the same time. Now that I have a grill, I can probably cook even more food simultaneously after getting the timing down.
If he really doesn’t have the time to boil eggs every day, he can boil a few dozen at once on his day off and throw them in the fridge. Hell, he could boil eggs while he takes a shower, or while he eats a meal, or takes a dump… it isn’t that hard.
I see that he’s married, I’m not sure why his wife doesn’t help with meal prep here if it’s such a problem. If she is complaining about cooking “so much” every day, then get a slow cooker, throw a bunch of shit in there, set it and forget it.
HT, have you ever had your thyroid hormone levels checked? On 200mg of t cyp a week and 2 IU of GH/day, you should be getting leaner by accident IMO.[/quote]
hey to a fellow allied health professional! \
i have worked cardiac stepdown, cvicu, nticu, nicu, ticu. just about every kink of icu ecept burn. and none of those jobs had me hustling and on my feet RUNNING as much a ED.
i am not exaggerating, sometimes i go nearly 8 hours before i take my first piss break.
i have to eat on the run, and i usually do not take breaks, even though contract we are allowed 30 minutes during a 12 hour shift.
Z’s diet called for 2 shakes as my at work meals, and that works great, i have not missed any of them, though i remember not finishing the entire shake a couple of times.
[/quote]
Hard to take a 30 min break when you have gun shots and people on dopamine and one room with a psycho that has OD’d on valium [/quote]
or you are trying to establish an I-O access on a coding baby, when the 6 foot 200lbs homeless guy who is tripping on bath salts and meth the cops dumped on you busts into your room with screaming and flailing around, spraying everyone with the still connected but tubing tore in half IV in his arm with hepatitis infected blood,o
sigh, good times.
[/quote]
These story’s were always great for party’s HT, but honestly I dont miss them my friend. Thank you for your service and carrying the torch. When you are ready to semi-retire, I will find a job for you.[/quote]
be careful, i may hit you up for that one day. sometimes i wonder if i should just do vascular access full time (piccs, ios etc.)
[/quote]
that is a great idea. I don’t know how old you are (I’m guessing in your 40’s), but I’m only 31 and about 7.5 years served on this unit, and I’m already burned out despite my relatively easier circumstances (I don’t generally have large men barging into my room when I’m trying to start an IV). I’m already thinking about getting a cushier job elsewhere and I’m surprised you haven’t already. Working on a vascular access team and doing OT shifts or per diem work somewhere else would likely do you good. leave the ED to the young bucks.
I repeat my question: have you ever had your thyroid hormone levels checked?[/quote]
YES, they are fine, but thanks for the idea. any yes, i am in my mid 40’S (46) and with all my surgeries, and the ones i need, i am feeling more and more like i need to “as you say” leave the ED to the young bucks.
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
i have been getting up just minutes before my shift start, and only have time for a shake, then i drink one shake at work
[/quote]
By the way, the point of my post(s) was not to talk you down or discourage you but this is what you wrote
This =/= not being able to stomach the food even if I try
Now what you are saying is you have trouble eating the food, which isnt the same.
What I do not want and absolutely hate is people that make false excuse. I’d much prefer a “I didnt prep my meal 1 and I have no excuse for it” then going as if you tried but couldnt make it
Now on the issue of you have trouble eating enough, when would you say are you the most hungry and the less hungry during the day/night
Do you notice appetite changes, at all?[/quote]
yes, i am most hungry after my workout in the mornings after work. that is, if strongs routine does not make me vomit, lol. seriously, even if it does, an hour or so later i am really craving my normal meal.
i am not very hungry at work, i am moving so much and honestly, some of the shit i do and see and smell is pretty fucking gross, so even if i did have more time, i would not eat much there.
also, i one problem with working nights, and sleeping days, is frequent wake ups during the day. one it is hard to sleep with bright daylight peeking through your window blinds, also with me having kids in school and a wife on night shift too we have to leave our phones on in case of emergency, so we get woke up by phone calls, fed ex, door to door soliciters, the dogs barking at random noised, them wanting out to go potty, etc.
i do notice that when i wake up mid day, like right now, as i type this(got up to let dogs outside) i am hungry. if i had permission i would eat some rice and steak right fucking now. lol
i am least hungry first thing in the late afternoon(5pm) right before work. i really am tired, mentally stressed wondering what sort of fucked up war zone work is gonna be that night, etc, so it is a real struggle to force down food then when i already do not have an appetite.
measurements cold flexed this morning after work
5’6" 212.2lbs
neck-19"
calf- 17
arm-17.5
waist- 37
chest- 50
thigh-26.5
also, Z, did you see the question about if i could add avocados and or black rice to the diet?
going back to bed, i will glance at this when i wake up a few hours later. thanks for all the support from Everybody, i am sure Z and Strong realize it comes from a good place,
and thanks again for z and strong for helping out.
please everybody, continue to drop in and give constructive criticism, i need it, and support, i need that too. this is the first time i took a real diet seriously, i have cut weight to make a contest before but that was just starving myself for a few weeks, then binging after.
and it is new to eAT planned meals on a regular schedule.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
anyhoo, if Z and Strong are still interested in helping me, i would like to hear their opinions on whats up with my appetite, (213 lbs yesterday, thats 7lbs down in 5 days)
and any suggestions on low body training while my groin is healing up, i would like to hear them. [/quote]
I imagine this is your body getting used to a non-junk diet. The appetite does weird things, especially with inconcsistent and oddly-timed sleep cycles like you have with your job.
As far as lower body training, keep things moving, do what you can without re-injury. We’ll add the heavy stuff back in once you’re healed up. Stretch and mobilize daily, do the pump stuff when possible, and other than that, let it heal.
I hope you didn’t take my posts as attacks on you, big guy. Tough love is required with this stuff, but most of the hostility in my posts was directed at the couple of other posters who seemed to be pretty intent on excusing noncompliance. The absolute worst thing for someone who is trying to establish a new level of discipline for themselves with their first prep or serious fat loss phase is people going back against the coach telling them that it’s ok that they don’t stick to the plan because the plan is hard.
It’s enabling and a disservice to YOU because it’s getting in the way of YOU making the changes you need to make in order to achieve your goals. I’m successful when you’re successful, so I’m only saying things because I think they’re in your best interest.[/quote]
cool i can live with that no need for hostility to the guys trying to help, i am sure if we explained why things are done this way they would change how they replied to stuff in this thread without having to get nasty,
thanks again Strong.
oh, btw, i hit 260kg x 1 easy the week i started this diet, weighing only 208 in a starved depleted state. that is a post neck surgery(done in december) PR.
i want 600 again before the end of the year, and i think your routine is making me stronger too, as well as fixing some things.
HT, stay strong man. A person like you will definately reach your end goals and even surpass them. Have faith in your trainers, even if it means being handled once in a while. Sooner or later, it actually becomes a luxury haha.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
also, Z, did you see the question about if i could add avocados and or black rice to the diet?[/quote]
And where would this be added…?
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
going back to bed, i will glance at this when i wake up a few hours later. thanks for all the support from Everybody, i am sure Z and Strong realize it comes from a good place,
and thanks again for z and strong for helping out.
please everybody, continue to drop in and give constructive criticism, i need it, and support, i need that too. this is the first time i took a real diet seriously, i have cut weight to make a contest before but that was just starving myself for a few weeks, then binging after.
and it is new to eAT planned meals on a regular schedule. [/quote]
Hey HT - As a dude who was formerly epically fat, and I definitely know the “legendary appetite” moniker that you were mentioning earlier, I can 100% tell you without any kind of issue that your appetite should return. Sometimes, especially when a drastic weight loss (like, 30 lbs in a few weeks IIRC,) happens I think the brain + body can kind of “slow things down” quite a bit.
Before too long, especially as you get further into the diet, there’s not a doubt in my mind the hunger will return. Then you’ll be having an even worse time trying to come to terms with that issue. (It’s the bane of my existence.)
For now - embrace the lack of hunger. Hell, that’s going to help you keep losing weight! It’s likely a combination of stress, as well as the rapid weight loss and a lot of other unaccounted smaller factors. Keep trucking brother - you’ll get through it.
Just wanted to drop by to say good luck mate. You’re gonna look like a fucking machine when you’re lean.
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
also, Z, did you see the question about if i could add avocados and or black rice to the diet?[/quote]
And where would this be added…?[/quote]
well, i thought mabey replace one of the fat serving with the avocado, and one of the rice servings with the black rice.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
also, Z, did you see the question about if i could add avocados and or black rice to the diet?[/quote]
And where would this be added…?[/quote]
well, i thought mabey replace one of the fat serving with the avocado, and one of the rice servings with the black rice.[/quote]
You can replace the pb with avocado
you can replace white rice with black rice on off days, not on training days