Hardgainers Don't Exist

On this thread the term “hardgainer” is used synonymously with “fast metabolism” by some posters. This is the first time I’ve heard the term narrowly define like that.

In most popular weightlifting literature I’ve come across the term “hardgainer” was used to describe someone who is genetically below average in terms of achieving the bodybuilding “look”.

Causes for this might be that you are below average in multiple categories: Poor skeletal structure for bodybuilding (narrow clavicles and wide hips), poor hormonal profile (low testosterone and high cortisol), poor nervous system (more difficult to recruit fast twitch fibers) etc… All of which makes it more difficult to achieve the “look”.

Again, from popular literature, “Hardgainers” may have a fast metabolism, like they can have a sluggish one, or even an average one. Either way, the issue of metabolism should be the least of anyone’s concern as it is the easiest, of the above concerns, to overcome with some consistent effort.

The reason why I think this topic has gone on for as long as it have is because some seem to think there are only 3 types of people in this world: The genetically elite, the average, or the diseased.

The reality is that there are multiple shades of gray in each of the above categories. Let’s take a look at just the Average bracket. Some people that fit in this category might look like this (in terms of bodybuilding potential):

Type 1 -
Skeletal: Average
Hormonal: Average
Metabolism: Average
Nervous System: Average

But let’s face it, most “average” people have a mixed profile, so you might get something like this:

Skeletal: Below Average
Hormonal: Average
Metabolism: Average
Nervous System: Above Average

Some good, some bad, but overall it averages out when compared to others with average mix of good/bad characteristics. I think most will agree with this.

Now, if you can admit to the above it shouldn’t be a stretch to admit that there are people who are NOT “diseased” that score below average in the majority (doesn’t have to be all, but also note my list isn’t complete) of these categories. Seeing how they are still technically “average” I can almost guarantee that there are more than 5 of these individuals in all of Manhattan.

These people are “hardgainers”. Not “no gainers”, but individuals who will never get as much out of bodybuilding as many others who they themselves are not part of the genetically elite.

So what is the point of anyone acknowledging the existence of these trainees? None really.

I’m aware that these people exist (failing to do so is failing to understand that within the realm of “AVERAGE” we’re not all created perfectly equal and that some may have more good than bad or vise versa), but ultimately it doesn’t matter because no one can control these variables. We can just focus on what we can control, which is our diet, training, effort, consistency, etc…

At least this is how I view the topic.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

Being a “hardgainer” is a state of mind, not a physiological state.[/quote]

Like you said its a state of mind, a way of perceiving reality.

Changes in the way you see and understand things, only happen if you are ready and willing in the first place.

If you are locked in your own “special” way of doing, and understanding things, people can shove the facts on your face and you still will miss the point.

Im glad one day i started saying no to “hardgainer”,“cant grow without drugs”,“heavy exercises will hurt you”, and other false claims and just started to really train.

I’ll just inject this little nugget…

Someone with a very fast metabolism and a tendency toward slow twitch muscle fibers may have to eat three times as many calories as a normal person, and lift with unreal intensity to achieve any real gains. That’s hard.

Hard gains = Hard Gainer = Hardgainer.

^^ Not rocket science.

[quote]christine wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Some people with extremely fast metabolisms may need to take in over 4,000cals a day just to see any weight gain.

So wouldnt that make that person a “hardgainer” as compared to someone who can see muscle gain on a 3,000 calorie diet? Because its ‘harder’ to eat 4,000 cals a day than 3,000?

So, the “hardgainer” has to eat more caloric dense, possibly more enjoyable food, and has more options of what to eat than another person.

And then they whine and bitch about it?

Bunch of wimps if you ask me.[/quote]

um yeah, see my posts, lol

I’m 5’8 was 167 (now 179), have had my RMR tested and it’s 2,220, which means I need about 4500 cals/day to gain weight.

It sucks big time.
I’m spending a lot of money on food and supplements and shitting 3 x a day.

I’ll whine and bitch all I want thanks, lol

I will say though, that almost anything is possible if you put in the work for it. Some will have a harder time than others putting on size, but it really comes down to how bad you want it.

I can’t believe some people are so ignorrant to the fact that hardgainers do exist and I’m one of them! yes the term gets overused and it pisses me off when I see people claiming to be hardgainers simply because they are ectomorphs…

or they’ve been training for the whole of 6-12 months (yes, that is definitely enough time to come to the consclusion that you’re a hardgainer isn’t it?! lol) and they claim to be hardgainers but what they don’t realise is if they were consistent with their diet and training and actually trained sensibley and not use ‘the 5 day a week chest and bicep blockbuster routine’ they might not be a hardgainer… it’s these people that lead to posts/threads like this one.

I’ve slogged my guts for years and still don’t look like I lift weights! years - 8 YEARS!

and please don’t come back at me with “you don’t eat enough, you must use really shitty routines” - two professional sports nutrionists would argue otherwise and so would the guy who’s been training me for the last couple of years.

Have a read of this thread, it may (or may not) chnage ya mind.

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10412&highlight=species

[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
I can’t believe some people are so ignorrant to the fact that hardgainers do exist and I’m one of them! yes the term gets overused and it pisses me off when I see people claiming to be hardgainers simply because they are ectomorphs…

or they’ve been training for the whole of 6-12 months (yes, that is definitely enough time to come to the consclusion that you’re a hardgainer isn’t it?! lol) and they claim to be hardgainers but what they don’t realise is if they were consistent with their diet and training and actually trained sensibley and not use ‘the 5 day a week chest and bicep blockbuster routine’ they might not be a hardgainer… it’s these people that lead to posts/threads like this one.

I’ve slogged my guts for years and still don’t look like I lift weights! years - 8 YEARS!

and please don’t come back at me with “you don’t eat enough, you must use really shitty routines” - two professional sports nutrionists would argue otherwise and so would the guy who’s been training me for the last couple of years.

Have a read of this thread, it may (or may not) chnage ya mind.

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10412&highlight=species

[/quote]

Some of the worst advice I’ve heard with regards to eating has come from “nutritionists”, at least from a physique development standpoint.

How much do you weigh? How old are you? How tall are you?

I believe that if someone ate enough food (3-5k clean calories) and trained properly (4 day a week bodypart split) they WILL put on muscle.

I also believe that people that ‘don’t put on muscle’ have some sort of psychological problem, which involes them completly lying to themselves:

  • thinking they are eating enough yet they are not
  • thinking they are training hard yet they are not

These ‘hardgainers’ could also be putting on a decent amount of muscle but get very impatient thinking it is not enough, or being almost like an anorexic and starving themselves if they think they are gaining fat.

People also search desperately for some magic advice that is just not going to come, there isn’t a lot to this:

train hard, eat alot, get good rest.

And thats pretty much what most of the advice boils down to, it’s not going to change.

I generally think only a few people have poor genetics to building muscle (low testosterone, high thyroid, shitty glucose tolerance in, low IGF levels and frail CNS systems).

I think these ‘hardgainers’ read all these symptoms, excuses and 100% believe that they have all these things wrong with them, yet in reality if they went and got tested all the things above would be perfectly normal.

Hi proff X - we’ve been through this a year or two ago…

The nutrionsists specialize in bodybuilding

I weigh 142lbs, I’m 5 feet 9 and I’m 30 years old.

Although I’m skinny, I’m not exactly as lean as I could be either - I just finished a cut in which I lost 36lbs, but have regained 13lbs since then - some lost muscle and some fat.

I eat well, eat the right foods, enough protein, good fats - can gain fat all day long, but strength is another matter altogther… I just can’t get the weight added to the bar… I’ll add weight but the more I add, the more the reps fall each session - this has been an ongoing thing for a long time.

[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
I’ll add weight but the more I add, the more the reps fall each session - this has been an ongoing thing for a long time.
[/quote]

So, you think that increasing the weight is supposed to mean you are able to do the same number of reps as with a lighter weight?

one week i’ll get 11 reps then say if I add 2.5lbs the next week, I’ll get 9-10 reps, I’ll add 2.5lbs the following week, I’ll get 8-9 reps, so my reps will fall as the weight goes up and so on.

Basically I don’t get stronger.

anyway, I dont really wanna go into why I’m not gaining - it’s been done to death.

[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
one week i’ll get 11 reps then say if I add 2.5lbs the next week, I’ll get 9-10 reps, I’ll add 2.5lbs the following week, I’ll get 8-9 reps, so my reps will fall as the weight goes up and so on.

Basically I don’t get stronger.

anyway, I dont really wanna go into why I’m not gaining - it’s been done to death.[/quote]

Hold up, we’re not done yet. You thought that you were going to get stronger without working out with the heavier weight until you could get more reps with it?

you might not be done with, but I am lol

no, that’s not the case.

of course I’ve tried adding reps, the trouble is adding reps is impossible!

[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:

of course I’ve tried adding reps, the trouble is adding reps is impossible!

[/quote]

i used to feel like that. you might need to stay at a certain wieght a couple workouts to get more reps on it. and if your not eating enough to build to gain muscle only keep what you have the reps are never going to go up. if you dont take enough time to rest they will never go up either…

plus its going to be easier to add wieght/reps to say squats/deadlifts versus curls…or even bench/rows/etc…

[quote]djwhizkid wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:

of course I’ve tried adding reps, the trouble is adding reps is impossible!

i used to feel like that. you might need to stay at a certain wieght a couple workouts to get more reps on it. and if your not eating enough to build to gain muscle only keep what you have the reps are never going to go up. if you dont take enough time to rest they will never go up either…[/quote]

stay at a certain weight for a coupleof workouts? I’ve been at the same weight for about 6 years lol

I’m slowly gaining fat again so I know I’m eating enough and I’m currentley doing a 2 day a week routine after finishinga 3 dayer.

I came off the cut about 4 months ago, regain lost muscle + strength, added a bit more fat and for the last 5 weeks or so i’ve made no progress once again.

I had a week off not so long ago, went back to the gym and nothing has changed since, other than slight fat gain.

anyway back to prof x, that really is all I’m gonna say on the matter, i refuse to be drawn into a debate about why I’m not gaining, it really has been done to death a million times and I really don’t fancy being bitch slapped. lol

[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
djwhizkid wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:

of course I’ve tried adding reps, the trouble is adding reps is impossible!

i used to feel like that. you might need to stay at a certain wieght a couple workouts to get more reps on it. and if your not eating enough to build to gain muscle only keep what you have the reps are never going to go up. if you dont take enough time to rest they will never go up either…

stay at a certain weight for a coupleof workouts? I’ve been at the same weight for about 6 years lol

I’m slowly gaining fat again so I know I’m eating enough and I’m currentley doing a 2 day a week routine after finishinga 3 day a week routine.

I came off the cut about 4 months ago, regain lost muscle + strength, added a bit more fat and for the last 5 weeks or so i’ve made no progress once again.

I had a week off not so long ago, went back to the gym and nothing has changed since, other than slight fat gain.

anyway back to prof x, that really is all I’m gonna say on the matter, i refuse to be drawn into a debate about why I’m not gaining, it really has been done to death a million times.
[/quote]

ive been all of 135lbs at 5’10 20 years old before. i think anybody that says they cant gain wieght doesnt try hard enough. unless as has been mentioned you have some type of desiese.

i think i may have joked about being a hardgainer earlyer in the thread i was just joking… its a cop out…

here we go… I can’t gain weight because I dont try hard enough… yeah, I knew I’d get that type of response! lol

“i think anybody that says they cant gain wieght doesnt try hard enough.”

oh, I can gain weight… at my heaviest I was 174lbs… but when I first started training I weighed 112lbs @ 22 years old. (around 8-8.5 stone) trouble is, I’ve probably added about 4lbs of muscle.

oops, I thought I was gonna leave this thread alone? lol

[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
here we go… I can’t gain weight because I dont try hard enough… yeah, I knew I’d get that type of response! lol

“i think anybody that says they cant gain wieght doesnt try hard enough.”

oh, I can gain weight… at my heaviest I was 174lbs… but when I first started training I weighed 112lbs @ 22 years old. (around 8-8.5 stone) trouble is, I’ve probably added about 4lbs of muscle.

oops, I thought I was gonna leave this thread alone? lol

[/quote]

If you honestly believe that you can’t make any gains, why do you even bother?

[quote]IQ wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:
here we go… I can’t gain weight because I dont try hard enough… yeah, I knew I’d get that type of response! lol

“i think anybody that says they cant gain wieght doesnt try hard enough.”

oh, I can gain weight… at my heaviest I was 174lbs… but when I first started training I weighed 112lbs @ 22 years old. (around 8-8.5 stone) trouble is, I’ve probably added about 4lbs of muscle.

oops, I thought I was gonna leave this thread alone? lol

If you honestly believe that you can’t make any gains, why do you even bother?[/quote]

I like going to the gym, I like training.

[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:

I like going to the gym, I like training.
[/quote]

Well enjoy WANTING to be big then…

wannabebig;

have you tried sticking with the same weight until you can get more reps with it, and only then adding more weight?