Hard R (why is this Voldemort?)

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Congratulations! You win the prize for being the only poster here who missed the thread about fat people.

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I don’t know. Depends on the artist. I’ve seen videos of some black artists saying it’s fine and other saying it’s not. Everyone views it differently.

Are you not American? I thought you were.

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I’m from the south and my degree is in sociology with its concentration in music industry ethno-tourism. Specifically, I studied the economics of how major record labels marketed hip-hop to overwhelmingly white markets. I’ve lived most of my life in black neighborhoods, and for fifteen years taught at all-black schools in the city of Philadelphia. I played rugby around the world when I was younger, and have had many rough acquaintances. I’ll make one post here as I saw it on accident and wish I hadn’t.

A word is elegy to what it means.

The strength of someone can be measured also in their gentleness.

We admire and value people and ourselves most commonly when we do difficult things well, not when we complain over the smallest of entitlements.

An argument is an argument. A straw man is often what’s offered instead when a coherent point isn’t available. Coherent points on topics outside personal ownership usually have to be well-researched, so conversations on this topic are usually echo-chambers of personal emotion. “Why cant I
” “Why can they
” “Everyone should have to
” These are not developed stances, but frame the issue in easier ways to process. It’s easier to say “fair is fair” instead of “im not sure what fair is, but i want to.” It is easier to say “words are just words” and “dont let that bother you” when no slur against you carries any weight close or any similar narrative. Further, those assertions are -patently- childish and used ubiquitously as rulesets for young learners who don’t yet have any semblance of cognitive dissonance, or the ability to understand concepts with multiple perspectives.

If not described by the above, many comments here are pretty close to complaining that people whose histories were unfairly degraded to an unconscionable extent shouldn’t be able to explore the expressions branded on them unless the brander class is included in the privilege. Because that culture who presided over that degradation has become obsessed with those people, having at very least everything they have, and with minimizing and denying the weight that is still carried in society from historical trauma despite being repeatedly reminded by the surviving culture.

Why in hell would a white person WANT to say that word? Its not fun, doesnt feel good in any context, and every single story of its innocuous use by a white person comes along with at least one of these caveats:

*only white people were around (there is no representation of the described people so the word is used just to please whites, and how admirable is that
)

*a friend said i could say it (one or a few personal acquaintances made a personal connection with you and allowed you commonality in their presence by not taking offense to something that could easily unsettle or scare them)

*a black rapper said it (“i have the same entitlement to own and express black solidarity as a black person, and i am showing that by taking issue with how the vast majority of a very heterogenous black population would like me to behave regarding them” which is abjectly spiteful)

The litany of whites offering that they are/ would be unoffendable is remarkable, and likely just a complete misunderstanding of how people become hurt, or, more commonly, people who don’t want to do the work to understand non-physical violence, but who retort by pretending to be impervious as a sort of narcissistic plus-one to the initial arrogance. What achievement or value is created by saying “I don’t believe this hurts or should hurt you”, if the conversation exists because it obviously does?

As a white southern social science student who captained an international collision sport for the next ten years and sought out CSCS certification despite a different academic background, the only commonality in my pursuits is desiring to know exactly why something happens and taking joy in doing it the right way. Im new, but this seems to be a science-based forum for people who enjoy figuring things out and achieving difficult goals. It is interesting that spirit seems absent or buried once the premium comes to easily declining to wield a massively damaging archaic entitlement from a horrifyingly brutal period of unfairness that only profited the “slurrer.”

Respect can be difficult if the desire to respect isnt present in a person. We should desire to do difficult things well. Not complain that a historically subjugated demographic has claimed one shiny expression we must now also have, not because we asked nicely or cooperated on an understanding, but just because we feel slighted the word brings them together now and it’s “hard” for some of us to see that without wanting to participate. Im sure not saying that word is hard for some, as disappointing as that truly is, but if this is an entitlement issue for a white person its just fucking depressing from a social, economic, historical, family values, and personal character standpoint. But it’s easy, and gets validation from others who prefer the ease of denying the existence of privilege and violence in a vacuum chamber of unambitious like-minds.

Its very much like teammates starting to fight and get chippy in games they cant win. Losing means you didnt understand something or failed to act. Its emotionless if you have a learning process and enjoy difficult challenges. Looking to find something unfair about your situation is easier than winning, but its still losing.

Self-activated: “I am uncomfortable, how can I learn and adapt?”
Entitled: “I am uncomfortable, someone should make me comfortable.”

Self-activated: “Politics of recognition frustrate me, how can I learn and adapt?”
Entitled: “Politics of recognition frustrate me, so I shouldnt have to care.”
Entitled: “I dont understand why this issue is important, so others should have to educate or convince me.”
Entitled: “I dont have to care about this issue, so others who do are stupid or weak. Not me.”
Entitled: “He looks happy playing with his toy, no fair, someone should let me play with it.”
Entitled: “He wants me to stop hurting his feelings by not calling him a name, but not feeling ashamed about name-calling is more important to me than how it feels to them.”

Whether you feel right or not on any of these tracks, they’re all just easy ways to stay the same, defer accountability, and not stay open to difficult learning. Asking “why no hard r?” on what seems to be a nearly all-white website doesn’t exactly come across as a genuine attempt to locate or understand relevant or challenging viewpoints, so I felt a bit of obligation here.

Pardon the edits, and thank you to anyone who was open-minded enough to read that whatever your opinion. If I pissed you off, no worries. I’ll read any and all direct replies, but will be sticking firmly to the science threads now for a while.

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@PhilaSCS I’ll only respond with my opinion on this issue. You’re also speaking in absolutes such as “If this
”. you’re “this” which is simply NOT true. It’s just your view. For example 


Not true.

Not true again. Just two examples.

I don’t think most people do “want” to. I for one don’t. However, I DO NOT want others “will” imposed on me in a free country unless it’s law. While laws are still imposing will from some starting point they are generally accepted as rules for ALL PEOPLE.

I don’t take offense from your opinion just your direct assertions that anything but your opinion is “insert immoral dig”.

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I was asking more regarding the general public.
Like, you’re at a Snoop Dogg concert singing along, nigga comes up, which you also repeat, and everything stops, all eyes on you, judging. “Hey y’all, this white motherfucker said *nigga”.
Now your life is over.

Regarding any individual artist, I cannot understand the thought process of thinking that a fan of yours who is giving you his money because he likes your work, cannot repeat a part of the lyrics in your songs.
How can it be racist to do so under such circunstances? It’s obviously not meant to be insulting.
I’d argue it’s racist not to allow someone to sing along based on the color of their skin.

No, that’s why this seems so silly to me. I understand the negative connotation of such word, but if one has the capability for rational reasoning, nuance and context should still matter.

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Therein lies the rub.

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Beautiful. You must have been a fantastic teacher.

But do you see the irony, given the history of the word? Enslavement: the complete removal of agency by force. Permitted rape. The snatching away of parents’ children. The state-sanctioned beating to death of a man because his owner was in a sour mood. Torture for fun by malevolent children. A life lived in cold shacks, eating whatever slop someone cared to feed you. This is where the problem lie; the law failed some people so profoundly, the idea of “a free country” so ludicrous in considering the not-so-long-ago-history, that there is simply no right path to disgruntlement over use of a word or words that represent that permitted, legal removal of will and freedom in the most basic sense. Say the word if you’d like! But surprise over the reactions of the people hearing you exercise your free will? Eh. Not such a severe consequence. It’s not as if you’re tied to a post and whipped for saying it.

No one wants others’ will imposed on us. “Agency” is perhaps the most precious concept in our language. “Freedom” indicates something given by others or agreed upon by the group, while “agency” is something we exercise for and by ourselves. I have the agency to say the word, but what freedom does it represent? You are legally allowed to say the word, but should you?

And if so, why? This is the thing missing from the thread. A rationale for its use that isn’t “why shouldn’t I?”

*I love the concept of the word “cozy.”
*I love the mouth feel of words like “indubitably!”
*I love the reaction I get when I say the word “sexy” slow and low to the right person.
*Saying my dog’s name makes me feel happy.

I’m looking for something along the lines of “I like to say nigga/nigger because it makes me feel _______”

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I do see where you are coming from. Perhaps I’m too lacking in empathy or just numb these days to the overwhelming ‘what about me / I’m special’ attitude especially of many young people.

FWIW, I can honestly say I don’t recall EVER using the word. I probably have in a reference to how bad it is, but I don’t recall it. I certainly wouldn’t expect anything but a negative response if I did. I just feel NOBODY should say it and the double standards of today’s society is what I take issue with. I hope that makes sense.

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I see the hypocrisy and pandering and self righteous victimhood behind saying it is the single most vile word in the English language. It implies if not overly states that one group has more humanity than others; that one group’s suffering is greater than other groups’ suffering because that group is inherently more human.

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It does, but this is a special case in our country because of our history. I would imagine there’s a great deal of energy in Germany around the enslavement and extermination of Jews, while not so much in America.

I can say that my people weren’t even here when slavery was occurring (some of them were trying to stay alive in Germany), but what difference does it make? What on earth am I trying to defend or protect in saying I shouldn’t have to toe whatever line? If black people are still working through this, then they are. I just don’t see an emergency around it. And I suspect that if people stopped agitating over the word, it would become obsolete pretty quickly.

Again, I have sympathy with a similar trend we see, which is to disallow words that simply describe something. I have no idea what people with the medical condition dwarfism are called now, so I have to trip all over myself if I want to talk about the change that Game of Thrones and Peter Dinklage made to
people with the medical condition of dwarfism. I think it’s silly. I get that people misuse terms like this, e.g. “What are you, a retard?” “Jesus Christ, are you deaf?” But the constant shifting of allowed terms is ridiculous.

The n-word is not in the same category, though. It’s not a medical term describing a state of being. It’s a word used by slave owners to describe the people they owned.

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Is kxke? Or chixk?

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No. Just the opposite.

What do you think is the most vile word in the English language? I’m curious.

Also, it’s just so much energy. Why does it deserve this kind of emotional language from you? I just figure I have so many words to use, I’ll let that one be.

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There isn’t one.

I haven’t been arguing for the right to use that word without consequences. If black people want to use it amongst themselves in any context, I don’t have any issue with it. I don’t have an issue with a supposed double standard. If you aren’t black and you call a black person that word, it is racist. There is no credible argument against that. I do take issue with the idea that any use is racist, such as indirect or reported speech. I mean, are we all too stupid to understand the concept of context?

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I have used the word here. I have used the word in a therapy session with an adolescent mixed race girl. I feel fine. No anxiety whatsoever.

Again, you’ve stated what you’re arguing against. What are you arguing FOR? That isn’t clear to me.

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I think it’s also the fact that some people are much better than you or me and make a point of showing it to the world.They live on a higher (moral) ground and are extremely tolerant and devoid of prejudice, so naturally will not tolerate the utterance of words like nigger, faggot or retard.
These people will take a public stance, lest you be unaware of how kind and egalitarian they are.

The same kind of people who will rise against those who opress the innocent people of Polynesia by allowing their little racist white girls to dress up like Moana.

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I think you’re taking it too far. I don’t think children are inherently racist. I know my sons are not at 8 and 11 as they have more friends that are minorities than white friends despite our local population being the opposite. I’ve never had to address racism with them yet although I’m sure I will one day. Perhaps I already should have, I don’t know. They don’t view the world in colors
 yet. They also haven’t been exposed to the MSM.

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Never have truer words been typed!

Fuck, bro! I’m always impressed by the bravery shown by the white people who defend others against all sorts of things. It’s even more impressive because they tend to live in wealthy, white neighborhoods in states that are also wealthy and white.

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Are you talking about people like me and @PhilaSCS, who’ve answered an asked question? Or, like, the word police, or what?

If me, what do you care that I don’t think the word is one worth fighting for? What does it matter to you that I don’t use it and feel sympathy for the people who’d rather I not? If I feel sympathy for the people also wanting to use it but suppress its use for others, given their history, so? Where is your freedom impinged? Hate speech is completely legal. Go for it!

Under current First Amendment jurisprudence, hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group .

Just be careful that you don’t accidentally kill someone right after making your hate speech, because there may be increased penalties.

Also, I don’t think my choice not to use certain words indicates anything more than exactly that. I’ve chosen not to use certain words, for reasons of my own, or in this case reasons I’ve expressed above. It doesn’t indicate that I’m without prejudice or bias. Humans are tribal, and very few of us don’t exhibit group biases. But that doesn’t mean we have to be assholes for no discernible reason.

If you’re talking about the word police, well then you’re talking about politicians or would-be politicians, and then my assumption is that their goal is either power or money.

When will someone explain the use of the word to them personally? Or what they stand FOR in using it?

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Common sense.

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Buzz word. What does it mean in this specific case?

“If we went about this in a common-sense way, nigger would be used______”

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