Gymnastics Biceps

Off Topic
241

[quote]Professor X wrote:
forlife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I am not sure why some of you seem to hate the fact that some people are born with advantages that you may not have or why some of you think they don’t deserve praise at all.

I never said that. It’s awesome to watch a genetically gifted athlete in his prime. My point was that being genetically gifted isn’t in any way a reflection of what YOU have accomplished. It says nothing about your character, commitment, or the price you have paid to get where you are. The reason I respect the athlete isn’t because he is genetically gifted, it’s because he has spent a lifetime making the most of those genetics.

…and most people anywhere near famous enough for you to hear about them are anything BUT average. Michael Jordan was amazing to watch…but if you think he was just an “average” person who worked hard, you would be wrong. He was gifted. Therefore, his hard work led him to greater heights than someone of much lesser talent would ever experience. I am sure somewhere there was some kid trying really hard on a basketball court who never got anywhere near as good. According to you, they deserve the same respect?

Why?

Most people are STILL going to have to work hard to get anywhere special…but your attitude is akin to saying that famous heart surgeon doesn’t deserve much praise because he was simply born smart and there are people who never got to his level but who worked harder.

It comes across as simply “hater-ade”.

You are the guy who sees the big lifter with 20" arms and claims they don’t deserve any more credit than you do…and that is just bullshit jealousy.
[/quote]

Prof X: Lets put a little spin on this - Two guys have similar physiques and size as well as similar performance stats. They are both impressive to you. One is natural. The other is not. Both have achieved the same results, but their roads were different. Also, perhaps the initial starting points were different. Does that matter to you?

Just playing devils advocate here. And while your posts may sometimes bother me, that is ikely my issue. Usually your logic as you apply it makes sense once I think about it. I may not like it but I understand it. That is why I am curious to your answer.

242

[quote]forlife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Michael Jordan was amazing to watch…but if you think he was just an “average” person who worked hard, you would be wrong. He was gifted. Therefore, his hard work led him to greater heights than someone of much lesser talent would ever experience. I am sure somewhere there was some kid trying really hard on a basketball court who never got anywhere near as good. According to you, they deserve the same respect?

If the kid worked as long and hard as Michael Jordan did, showed as much character and commitment, and busted his ass with equal dedication, then YES he gets the same level of respect from me. I’m impressed by what people do, not by what is handed to them.

What is the alternative? Why would someone deserve RESPECT just because they were born a certain way? How does that in any way say anything about what they have accomplished?

Do you think it makes sense to be proud and take credit for something that was handed to you?[/quote]

If you haven’t noticed that is how the entire fucking world works. It has been that way since the beginning of time. Kings were praised for nothing but their blood line. Warriors were praised for an innate ability to fight and kill. Athletes are praised for greater than average genetic ability. Politicians are praised for above average up bringing and education.

Have you not noticed this? Do you think those average people crying for more praise can erase this?

Average people wanting more credit for shit they haven’t accomplished is why this country is fucked up right now.

It doesn’t matter how hard you worked if you have nothing to show for it.

243

[quote]Professor X wrote:
If you haven’t noticed that is how the entire fucking world works. It has been that way since the beginning of time. Kings were praised for nothing but their blood line. Warriors were praised for an innate ability to fight and kill. Athletes are praised for greater than average genetic ability. Politicians are praised for above average up bringing and education.[/quote]

Do you think being born with a silver spoon in your mouth should automatically entitle you to more respect, regardless of anything you’ve actually done? If so, why? Does being lucky translate to being more worthy of respect?

I don’t disagree that people get respect all the time for things they haven’t accomplished. I’m just pointing out that this kind of “respect” doesn’t mean much, when you consider it’s based on nothing that the person has actually earned in any way.

244

[quote]forlife wrote:

Do you think being born with a silver spoon in your mouth should automatically entitle you to more respect, regardless of anything you’ve actually done? If so, why? Does being lucky translate to being more worthy of respect?[/quote]

Simply being born rich doesn’t deserve shit. However, if that rich person goes on and actually does something, then yes, even if they were allowed to get further ahead because of their starting point, their accomplishments do matter. If they accomplish more than most people, their accomplishments matter even more even if the only way they could have done so was to be born the way they were.

The same applies to every other example I have posted. Athletes don’t get praise for simply being born with quick response time. They get praise for what they do with that ability.

[quote]
I don’t disagree that people get respect all the time for things they haven’t accomplished. I’m just pointing out that this kind of “respect” doesn’t mean much, when you consider it’s based on nothing that the person has actually earned in any way.[/quote]

Who is talking about respecting people who don’t accomplish anything? We are talking about whether people who accomplish more deserve more respect because of it even if the reason they accomplished more was because of genetic ability.

245

[quote]forlife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If you haven’t noticed that is how the entire fucking world works. It has been that way since the beginning of time. Kings were praised for nothing but their blood line. Warriors were praised for an innate ability to fight and kill. Athletes are praised for greater than average genetic ability. Politicians are praised for above average up bringing and education.

Do you think being born with a silver spoon in your mouth should automatically entitle you to more respect, regardless of anything you’ve actually done? If so, why? Does being lucky translate to being more worthy of respect?

I don’t disagree that people get respect all the time for things they haven’t accomplished. I’m just pointing out that this kind of “respect” doesn’t mean much, when you consider it’s based on nothing that the person has actually earned in any way.[/quote]

Prof X is saying that it doesn’t matter.
Whether you work your way up to earning 20 million dollars, or you win the lottery, at the end of the day, you are rich.

Now back to topic.

I agree with the post that 70 pounds is 70 pounds. If you can’t lift 100 pounds just cause your arms are longer, well then you are weaker. We all have our weaknesses and strengths.
Just cause some gymnasts weigh a buck 40 does not mean they are weak. Being able to hold those positions for long periods of time is very difficult.
Whether you can do 60 pull ups at body weight of 140 or 2 pull ups at body weight of 265, in the end the strength is more or less the same.

Westclock and Zephead are fucking retards.

Gymnasts are strong as fuck.
Power lifters are strong as fuck.
Strongmen are strong as fuck.

End of story.

246

[quote]ComixGuy wrote:

Prof X: Lets put a little spin on this - Two guys have similar physiques and size as well as similar performance stats. They are both impressive to you. One is natural. The other is not. Both have achieved the same results, but their roads were different. Also, perhaps the initial starting points were different. Does that matter to you? [/quote]

No, it doesn’t matter to me. Why would it? That is the same as saying the guy who eats nothing but “natural foods” is somehow deserving of more credit than the guy who used protein shakes and processed baby food even though they both reached the same level of development.

When you are dead and gone, you will be judged on what you accomplished. The ends will justify the means.

247

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
forlife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If you haven’t noticed that is how the entire fucking world works. It has been that way since the beginning of time. Kings were praised for nothing but their blood line. Warriors were praised for an innate ability to fight and kill. Athletes are praised for greater than average genetic ability. Politicians are praised for above average up bringing and education.

Do you think being born with a silver spoon in your mouth should automatically entitle you to more respect, regardless of anything you’ve actually done? If so, why? Does being lucky translate to being more worthy of respect?

I don’t disagree that people get respect all the time for things they haven’t accomplished. I’m just pointing out that this kind of “respect” doesn’t mean much, when you consider it’s based on nothing that the person has actually earned in any way.

Prof X is saying that it doesn’t matter.
Whether you work your way up to earning 20 million dollars, or you win the lottery, at the end of the day, you are rich.

Now back to topic.

I agree with the post that 70 pounds is 70 pounds. If you can’t lift 100 pounds just cause your arms are longer, well then you are weaker. We all have our weaknesses and strengths.
Just cause some gymnasts weigh a buck 40 does not mean they are weak. Being able to hold those positions for long periods of time is very difficult.
Whether you can do 60 pull ups at body weight of 140 or 2 pull ups at body weight of 265, in the end the strength is more or less the same.

Westclock and Zephead are fucking retards.

Gymnasts are strong as fuck.
Power lifters are strong as fuck.
Strongmen are strong as fuck.

End of story.
[/quote]

LOL. Me and Westclock > you.

248

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ComixGuy wrote:

Prof X: Lets put a little spin on this - Two guys have similar physiques and size as well as similar performance stats. They are both impressive to you. One is natural. The other is not. Both have achieved the same results, but their roads were different. Also, perhaps the initial starting points were different. Does that matter to you?

No, it doesn’t matter to me. Why would it? That is the same as saying the guy who eats nothing but “natural foods” is somehow deserving of more credit than the guy who used protein shakes and processed baby food even though they both reached the same level of development.

When you are dead and gone, you will be judged on what you accomplished. The ends will justify the means.[/quote]

One of my bigger clients has a plaque on his desk that reads: “Never confuse effort with results.”

He doesn’t give a fuck how many hours or how hard you work, if you fucked it up, you fucked it up. If someone was there half the time and did it right, someone is getting fired, and it isn’t the dude doing it right.

249

[quote]Professor X wrote:
forlife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I am not sure why some of you seem to hate the fact that some people are born with advantages that you may not have or why some of you think they don’t deserve praise at all.

I never said that. It’s awesome to watch a genetically gifted athlete in his prime. My point was that being genetically gifted isn’t in any way a reflection of what YOU have accomplished. It says nothing about your character, commitment, or the price you have paid to get where you are. The reason I respect the athlete isn’t because he is genetically gifted, it’s because he has spent a lifetime making the most of those genetics.

…and most people anywhere near famous enough for you to hear about them are anything BUT average. Michael Jordan was amazing to watch…but if you think he was just an “average” person who worked hard, you would be wrong. He was gifted. Therefore, his hard work led him to greater heights than someone of much lesser talent would ever experience. I am sure somewhere there was some kid trying really hard on a basketball court who never got anywhere near as good. According to you, they deserve the same respect?

Why?

Most people are STILL going to have to work hard to get anywhere special…but your attitude is akin to saying that famous heart surgeon doesn’t deserve much praise because he was simply born smart and there are people who never got to his level but who worked harder.

It comes across as simply “hater-ade”.

You are the guy who sees the big lifter with 20" arms and claims they don’t deserve any more credit than you do…and that is just bullshit jealousy.
[/quote]

This is a great post. Ultimately, you are judged by your results. I know first hand, that some guys are hesitant to take advice from me on lifting in general due to a my high BF%. This usually changes when they see me lift however, and it changes when I’m leaner.
“Hater-ade” that’s funny, but is so true. Some guys will get upset over anything. This almost reminds me of being jealous of good looking guys who score with hot women.

250

whether or not the end justifies the means is ethically debateable…

as “bodybuilders”, “powerlifters”, “gymnasts”, or “weightlifters”, however, the “end” is certainly all we’re really concerned with. and, just to state the blatantly obvious, each of these categories of strength athlete is concerned with a different end altogether, and must train to achieve these ends accordingly.

the problem with this philosophy, though (and the reason so many of us seem to be compelled to respond to this thread) is the fact that we have a minority of people here who seem to be able to reach their physique, strength, or performance goals relatively easily while a great majority of us have a MUCH harder time in doing so… this much has already been acknowledged.

the real problem here lies in the fact that even in light of this already recognized and accepted fact, we have some people who mistakingly believe that the fact that they’re genetically predisposed to achieving a certain “end” (and, remember, it’s already been established that these folks DO exist) somehow qualifies them as training experts who are capable of prescribing sound training advice, and/or, unfortunately, somehow justifies them in making light of the accomplishments of others, simply because they are different, or perhaps not as ABSOLUTELY impressive.

the real irony here lies in the fact that if you actually asked a professional bodybuilder, powerlifter, or what have you, if they thought gymnasts to be strong, you’d probably be almost universally affirmed… and vice versa, as it should be.

i love how people love to hide here in cyberspace, posting under fake names, talking trash, playing the fool, etc…

the reality of the matter is that the weakest/worst-built olympic-caliber gymnast/professional powerlifter/bodybuilder is most likely stronger/better built than you… but if talking down on them makes you feel better about your own physical or behavioral shortcomings, by all means… as you were.

251

[quote]Professor X wrote:
We are talking about whether people who accomplish more deserve more respect because of it even if the reason they accomplished more was because of genetic ability.[/quote]

Accomplishing more because of genetic ability is cool and all, but it says shit about that person’s motivation, drive, commitment, sacrifice, and dedication compared to someone with less genetic ability.

If someone accomplishes more because of good genetics, that’s fine but he shouldn’t act as if it means he is any more dedicated than someone else. It’s because he got lucky, compared to someone with equal dedication but worse genetics.

I’m more impressed with what people actually earn through hard work and sweat than with what is handed to them by no act of their own.

252

[quote]Professor X wrote:
When you are dead and gone, you will be judged on what you accomplished. The ends will justify the means.[/quote]

If you really want to go there (Mark 12: 41-44):

[quote]41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.

42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.

44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything â?? all she had to live on"[/quote]

253

[quote]IgneLudo wrote:
I think a lot of women like the physique . . .[/quote]

Then you’re wrong.

Most women would find the pic you posted above revolting.

254

[quote]AmandaSC wrote:
I’m sure there are plenty of women who would like a 5’ 4" guy with an awesome physique.[/quote]

Lmao, no there aren’t. And I bet that every man you’ve ever dated has been over 6 feet tall, because that’s what women go for.

255

[quote]forlife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
When you are dead and gone, you will be judged on what you accomplished. The ends will justify the means.

If you really want to go there (Mark 12: 41-44):

41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.

42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.

44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything â?? all she had to live on"
[/quote]

Not everyone believes that what you quoted isn’t just a fictional novel.

256

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Not everyone believes that what you quoted isn’t just a fictional novel.[/quote]

You don’t know me very well, I take it :wink:

The point is that it’s not so uncommon to believe people should be judged based on what they do with what they have, rather than being judged based on what they were given.

257

[quote]forlife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
We are talking about whether people who accomplish more deserve more respect because of it even if the reason they accomplished more was because of genetic ability.

Accomplishing more because of genetic ability is cool and all, but it says shit about that person’s motivation, drive, commitment, sacrifice, and dedication compared to someone with less genetic ability.

If someone accomplishes more because of good genetics, that’s fine but he shouldn’t act as if it means he is any more dedicated than someone else. It’s because he got lucky, compared to someone with equal dedication but worse genetics.

I’m more impressed with what people actually earn through hard work and sweat than with what is handed to them by no act of their own.[/quote]

Because he got lucky? Look, I know I am not “average” as far as genetics, but if you think I didn’t work my ass off for the past decade plus you would be greatly mistaken. My hard work may have gotten me further along than some people, but it was still hard fucking work.

Who are these people who get really big without working hard for it?

No, it doesn’t matter if you THINK you worked so hard if in the end you still end up with far less results. You could have been training wrong for all we know and lacking the ability to figure that out doesn’t mean you get the same respect as someone who figured out their own body quickly.

258

[quote]forlife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
When you are dead and gone, you will be judged on what you accomplished. The ends will justify the means.

If you really want to go there (Mark 12: 41-44):

41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.

42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a fraction of a penny.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.

44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything â?? all she had to live on"
[/quote]

I’m not God…and neither are you. We are talking about the VANITY of bodybuilding here, not giving back to the community or any other higher order.

That is, unless you put the discussion of professional athletics on the same moral plain as giving to the Church or the community.

259

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Because he got lucky? Look, I know I am not "average as far as genetics, but if you think I didn’t work my ass off for the past decade plus you would be greatly mistaken. My hard work may have gotten me further along than some people, but it was still hard fucking work.[/quote]

I never implied otherwise. Your accomplishments are admirable, and you wouldn’t be where you are without a shitload of hard work and dedication.

My point is that you’re no more worthy of respect, and are no better able to dish out advice, than someone with lesser genetics who has invested the same shitload of hard work and dedication.

Having good genetics doesn’t qualify people in any way to be gurus…it’s their commitment, hard work, and intelligent development based on what they have that qualifies them.

260

[quote]forlife wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Because he got lucky? Look, I know I am not "average as far as genetics, but if you think I didn’t work my ass off for the past decade plus you would be greatly mistaken. My hard work may have gotten me further along than some people, but it was still hard fucking work.

I never implied otherwise. Your accomplishments are admirable, and you wouldn’t be where you are without a shitload of hard work and dedication.

My point is that you’re no more worthy of respect, and are no better able to dish out advice, than someone with lesser genetics who has invested the same shitload of hard work and dedication.

Having good genetics doesn’t qualify people in any way to be gurus…it’s their commitment, hard work, and intelligent development based on what they have that qualifies them.[/quote]

What separates people is PROGRESS. This, much like Sparta, is fucking BODYBUILDING. No, the guy who “trains” for 15 years but still has 15" arms does NOT deserve as much praise or respect as the guy who gained 70lbs of muscle and 3 extra inches on his arm or more.

I am not sure how you are disagreeing with this. In 99% of those cases where the little guy who doesn’t even look like he lifts is crying for more respect, the truth is he had his head up his ass for most of the years he lifted or he really didn’t try as hard as he would like others to believe.

I mean, shit, if you train that fucking long and don’t look like it, this is NOT the activity for you. Find a new fucking hobby.