Oh that wasn’t you? My bad!
(Just kidding by the way)
[quote]808fightconcepts wrote:
A bunch of bullshit [/quote]
Wow, you proved in a couple paragraphs that you know shit about MMA and the UFC. Congrats. Your post was horrible in general, but I want to pick apart a few specific parts to point out how wrong you are and how stupid you look:
“BJ Penn was bored and could have won.”
Listen buddy, just because you can roll with BJ and he submits you everytime does NOT mean that he can do that against GSP. BJ has SERIOUS issues with training hard and staying disciplined. He was a competitive and driven fighter when he first entered the UFC at 155. Once he won the title he was no longer hungry and went on his little tour around the world challenging Gracies and doint whatever else he pleased. If you check out his myspace he even mentions how he hates not being able to drink and party before fights. Now compare that to GSP who lives and breathes training and you can see why the more talented fighter had a HUGE advantage early in that fight and the more disciplined and prepared fighter won it. BJ has so much talent that it hurts me to watch him lose a fight that he easily could have won if he kept up the pace for a full 15 minutes. GSP took him down at will at the end of the fight and that cost him the decision. Period.
“UFC is about technique and endurance, not KOs”
Congrats, you have been force fed bullshit by the Gracies, finished it all, and then asked for seconds. You do know that the UFC was co-founded by the Gracies and the tournament match ups were set up for Royce to win right? And you know that Rickson could have easily gone to represent the family and destroyed all of them, but they chose Royce to go because he is small and would aptly display the technique of bjj triumphing over opponents who had no idea what bjj was?
What MMA fighters do today is exactly what is most efficient to win a fight. They don’t train solely in bjj because as a stand alone martial art it is lacking against someone who knows how to defend it. Is bjj training a part of their cross training? Of course, it is the most complete ground fighting technique, especially from the back, but it is NOT the end all be all of training and you can see that very easily by checking out bjj purists in MMA today (Charuto? I’m sure you know who he is since you are a hilo boy. Check out his recent fights. Watch Trigg pound his face in while he goes for a leg lock)
“I’m an MMA purist, I haven’t watched UFC since the 20s”
Well congratulations to you. Stay out of MMA discussions then because your information and opinions are about 6 years old and MMA is evolving at a rapid pace. Anyway, arguing with you is pretty pointless since you have nothing to base opinions on except for “BJ beats me when we spar”
[quote]Dizzle wrote:
Conan - its the UFC any fighter can lose on any given night, just bc you beat someone doesn’t mean that you are better than them…let’s see
Gomi losing to Aurillo…doesn’t mean aurillo is a better fighter…Gomi would beat him 9 out of 10…probably…
Shogun losing to Coleman(i know he broke his arm or whatever…still a loss)…but shogun would win that fight most of the time
there are upsets all the time…
and i personally do think BJ is a better fighter than GSP eventho Georges beat him
but i do agree w/ you…the only thing BJ lacks sometimes is heart…GSP was hungrier thats why he won the fight…[/quote]
Good post!
Christ, how did a thread about GSP going for the belt become a debate about BJ? I had a feeling it would go this route when I first saw it this morning and either I have powerful precognative skills, or I’ve seen many a thread go this way.
Either way, I’m taking St. Pierre to win this one. I don’t think Hughes can compete with his athleticism and I don’t see GSP making the same mistake he made in the last one of leaving his arm out, as I think his grappling has only gotten better.
As a sidenote, earlier in the thread someone said Sherk will run through Diaz…no fucking way. Either Diaz knocks him out or Sherk gets takedowns and gets submitted, or Sherk gets takedowns and does nothing with them but is given the decision anyway.
Ah I can’t leave it alone:
BJ has fought nothing but top competition since entering MMA. How many among MMA fighters can list:
Takanori Gomi
GSP
Hughes
Ryoto Machida
Renzo Gracie
Rodrigo Gracie
Jens Pulver
Duane Ludwig
Caol Uno
and (I hate to put him on here cause his record sucks, but he is a very good jiu-jistu guy) Matt Serra
and have NO stoppages…only 3 decision losses?
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Ah I can’t leave it alone:
BJ has fought nothing but top competition since entering MMA. How many among MMA fighters can list:
Takanori Gomi
GSP
Hughes
Ryoto Machida
Renzo Gracie
Rodrigo Gracie
Jens Pulver
Duane Ludwig
Caol Uno
and (I hate to put him on here cause his record sucks, but he is a very good jiu-jistu guy) Matt Serra
and have NO stoppages…only 3 decision losses?
[/quote]
Not to answer my own question, but Rich Franklin can’t…does he suck and lack heart? GSP can’t…does he suck? Caol Uno can’t…Jens Pulver can’t…Hughes can’t…
I don’t care who wins the GSP Hughes fight as long as Penn gets to fight the winner. He won’t let what happend his last fight happen again. Against either of them! Go BJ.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Christ, how did a thread about GSP going for the belt become a debate about BJ?[/quote]
I don’t know how it happened. To be honest, what interested me the most about the original article I posted was the part:
“(In 2005) he made close to $350,000. And if everything goes as planned, this year he’s going to make close to a million. He’s making a lot of money with his fights, and also a lot of money with his endorsements.”
“It’s safe to say he’s going to be a millionaire.”
I was under the impression that most pro fighters make considerably less than this, even with endorsements. That’s what seemed the most interesting/impressive about St. Pierre.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
How did a thread about GSP going for the belt become a debate about BJ? I had a feeling it would go this route when I first saw it this morning and either I have powerful precognative skills, or I’ve seen many a thread go this way.[/quote]
I think it was a natural to go this way based upon BJ’s lackluster performance vs GSP.
Your man had a chance to get back in the running and was found lacking.
Yes, he’s talented. But it seems that he has other problems (perhaps emotional) which keeps his performances unpredictable.
We are all left to wait and see which BJ Penns shows up to fight.
The incredible stiker BJJ expert. Or, the inefficient fighter who looked like he ran out of gas sometime after the first round when he fought GSP.
Please don’t bet on that one. I like you and I don’t want you to lose your money.
Hughes will crush GSP!
He may not tap him out, but the ground and pound that GSP will have to endure will leave many wishing that Hughes tapped him out.
Athleticism is an interesting word. Does one acquire atheleticism in 18 months?
It will have been just about 18 months ago (when they fight for the second time) that Hughes submitted GSP.
So, in 18 months GSP has acquired a certain athleticism which will prohibit Hughes from submitting him in the first round, as he did in their first fight?
Or, are you claiming that GSP always had this stupendous athleticism and that Hughes just got lucky the first time?
GSP just left his arm out there and BANG…just a bad break right?
Well…great fighters cause those they oppose to make mistakes. Maybe GSP won’t leave an arm dangling this time. It might be something else under Hughes constant onslaught.
But rest assured it will be something as GSP is NOT going to defeat Matt Hughes, not now and not ever.
One thing I’ll point out that has been overlooked is GSP’s mindset since the first fight. Did he acquire some magical athleticism in 18 months? No. Did he acquire a whole new outlook on his fighting abilities and new perspective on Hughes? Hell yeah he did.
He said in an interview that the first time he fought Hughes he was star struck to even be in the octagon competing for the belt against the most dominant champ in UFC history. He gave him too much respect. Now he has continued to dominate top tier fighters and his come from behind win over BJ must have his confidence at an all time high.
Come September he won’t step in there to fight Hughes and challenge for the title, he will step in there to defeat Hughes and take the title. And that IS a big difference.
[quote]Dizzle wrote:
Conan - its the UFC any fighter can lose on any given night, just bc you beat someone doesn’t mean that you are better than them…let’s see[/quote]
I don’t care if you catch someone with a lucky punch, if you knock them out you are the better fighter. Stats and past glories don’t mean shit when you step into the ring. We are not talking about your bowling league average.
The hard cold reality is that since Cain beat down Able the better fighter has always been the winner of a head to head matchup.
[quote]alfuh wrote:
One thing I’ll point out that has been overlooked is GSP’s mindset since the first fight. Did he acquire some magical athleticism in 18 months? No. Did he acquire a whole new outlook on his fighting abilities and new perspective on Hughes? Hell yeah he did.
He said in an interview that the first time he fought Hughes he was star struck to even be in the octagon competing for the belt against the most dominant champ in UFC history. He gave him too much respect. Now he has continued to dominate top tier fighters and his come from behind win over BJ must have his confidence at an all time high.
Come September he won’t step in there to fight Hughes and challenge for the title, he will step in there to defeat Hughes and take the title. And that IS a big difference.[/quote]
So, the reason he lost to Hughes is because he was “star struck?”
I see…
Will his excuse be that he was over confident this time?
I suppose he could have lost because he was star struck.
Or…
He lost because Hughes is THE strongest fighter at that weight and has THE best ground and pound skills.
[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
Dizzle wrote:
Conan - its the UFC any fighter can lose on any given night, just bc you beat someone doesn’t mean that you are better than them…let’s see
I don’t care if you catch someone with a lucky punch, if you knock them out you are the better fighter. Stats and past glories don’t mean shit when you step into the ring. We are not talking about your bowling league average.
The hard cold reality is that since Cain beat down Able the better fighter has always been the winner of a head to head matchup.[/quote]
I think that’s a poor assesment, that makes them better on that particular evening, not indefinitely.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
ConanSpeaks wrote:
Dizzle wrote:
Conan - its the UFC any fighter can lose on any given night, just bc you beat someone doesn’t mean that you are better than them…let’s see
I don’t care if you catch someone with a lucky punch, if you knock them out you are the better fighter. Stats and past glories don’t mean shit when you step into the ring. We are not talking about your bowling league average.
The hard cold reality is that since Cain beat down Able the better fighter has always been the winner of a head to head matchup.
I think that’s a poor assesment, that makes them better on that particular evening, not indefinitely.[/quote]
I understand your argument (as lame as it is). Obviously the Colts were a better team than the Steelers but once again as I have repeatedly pointed out, the Colts, like BJ Penn lost. If you want to say he is better, whatever helps you sleep at night sweetheart. It still shows up as a “L” on Penn’s record and a “W” for GSP. Me personally I’d rather hang my hat on a “W”. Anyone else agree?
[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
I understand your argument (as lame as it is). Obviously the Colts were a better team than the Steelers but once again as I have repeatedly pointed out, the Colts, like BJ Penn lost. If you want to say he is better, whatever helps you sleep at night sweetheart. It still shows up as a “L” on Penn’s record and a “W” for GSP. Me personally I’d rather hang my hat on a “W”. Anyone else agree?[/quote]
Oh did you guys see what he did there? He trivialized my position by calling me “sweetheart” and questioning my manliness thereby seeking to undermine my position by making it seem girlie. How clever.
No shit it is better to have the “W” but anything can happen in a given fight…for now GSP can indeed claim to have been better on that night…at least in the NSAC judge’s eyes. I wasn’t even arguing about BJ, but any fighter in general. Fedor once lost to a scrub due to a freak cut over his eye…did that make that guy better than Fedor? Couture once lost to Belfort because of a freak cut, did that make Belfort better?
Obviously the answer is no to both of those because Fedor and Couture both handily destroyed those two guys. But whatever helps you sleep at night sweetcheeks.
[quote]alfuh wrote:
One thing I’ll point out that has been overlooked is GSP’s mindset since the first fight. Did he acquire some magical athleticism in 18 months? No. Did he acquire a whole new outlook on his fighting abilities and new perspective on Hughes? Hell yeah he did.
He said in an interview that the first time he fought Hughes he was star struck to even be in the octagon competing for the belt against the most dominant champ in UFC history. He gave him too much respect. Now he has continued to dominate top tier fighters and his come from behind win over BJ must have his confidence at an all time high.
Come September he won’t step in there to fight Hughes and challenge for the title, he will step in there to defeat Hughes and take the title. And that IS a big difference.[/quote]
GSP doesn’t need people to make excuses for him. A loss is a loss.
GSP fought to win the title the first time around (if Paul Newman punched me, I wouldn’t be so star-struck that I wouldn’t want to kick his ass), Hughes was the better fighter that night (that was a damned nice transition into japanese armbar).
GSP has gotten better, but it’s not like Hughes are just sitting around being twiddling his thumbs and eating Doritos all day since that fight (and you can be certain that Hughes has been watching GSP’s fights).
Hughes is a great wrestler and he’s much stronger than GSP, if it wants to take the fight to the ground it will go to the ground. Hughes will eat a few blows, but he can easily lift GSP and take him down (but a good shot while Hughes is closing could end the fight… remember Liddel vs. Couture III?).
Once it’s on the ground the clear advantage goes to Hughes… but that doesn’t mean that GSP can’t submit him.
It’s impossible to tell who’s going to win the fight; even if one fighter is favoured it could go either way because they’re both very skilled fighters. I just hope that it’s a good fight.
3mg melatonin and ZMA.
[quote]ConanSpeaks wrote:
slimjim wrote:
ConanSpeaks wrote:
Dizzle wrote:
Conan - its the UFC any fighter can lose on any given night, just bc you beat someone doesn’t mean that you are better than them…let’s see
I don’t care if you catch someone with a lucky punch, if you knock them out you are the better fighter. Stats and past glories don’t mean shit when you step into the ring. We are not talking about your bowling league average.
The hard cold reality is that since Cain beat down Able the better fighter has always been the winner of a head to head matchup.
I think that’s a poor assesment, that makes them better on that particular evening, not indefinitely.
I understand your argument (as lame as it is). Obviously the Colts were a better team than the Steelers but once again as I have repeatedly pointed out, the Colts, like BJ Penn lost. If you want to say he is better, whatever helps you sleep at night sweetheart. It still shows up as a “L” on Penn’s record and a “W” for GSP. Me personally I’d rather hang my hat on a “W”. Anyone else agree?[/quote]
You’d have a point if he GSP never fights BJ Penn again. However they will fight again (there’d be too much money involved to say “non”), so if BJ Penn is the better fighter he might well win the next fight.
However if he just can’t beat GSP, then you have a point and it really doesn’t matter how good he is.