Grossly Imbalanced Squat/DL/Bench/Press

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

I’m disproportionate. For a while I focused exclusively on the squat and deadlift. I can squat more than 1.5 x my bodyweight, and can deadlift 1.8 times my bodyweight. However, I can only bench press 0.8 times my bodyweight, and my standing overhead press is at a measely 0.6. My core, legs, glutes, etc. are a lot bigger than my upper body muscles.

Better than the other way around right? But still not cool.

After developing the squat and deadlift a little bit, I started following Starting Strength (except I replaced the cleans with rows for the usual reasons). This brought up my squat and deadlift a bit, and brought the two upper body lifts up from nothing, BUT now squatting heavy 3 times a week at 1.5 my bodyweight is hindering my progress.

So I was thinking of switching it up to this:

Monday - Press (3x5) + assistance
Tuesday - Deadlift (3x5) + assistance
Thursday - Bench Press (3x5) + assistance
Friday - Squat (3x5) + assistance

The setup is inspired a bit by the 5/3/1 program, but I really don’t think I need to train in that method yet, still being a beginner. Also, 5/3/1 calls for very slow monthly progress, and I do think that I can still progress linearly (obviously not as fast for the squat and deadlift, but I still think I can add weight more than once a month).

Is this a good way of doing things? Any other suggestions? I haven’t worked out what assistance work I’ll do yet, but I’ll get to that as long as no one says this is a stupid idea. The assistance will be made up of the basics, i.e. chinups, pullups, dips, rows, etc.

2

Key words “For a while I focused exclusively on the squat and deadlift.”, your focus has been on these two so they have developed, i have even worse ratios than you, dead is 2.4xbw, bench 1xbw

3

You got to prioritize it. It will come. Train your bench and over head press twice a week. Squat and Dead once a week. Also remember triceps are very important for all pressing movements. Hit your tris hard at least once a week. In three months your lifts will be more in proportion by then.

4

yea they have definitely taken priority. but my bench and overhead press haven’t really increased in the last two months so i think i need to switch it up. and i have tried resetting my program, starting a bit lighter again. i think the heavy squatting 3x/week is taking too much out of my recovery.

on the contrary, my squat was going up 15 pounds/week for over a month. same with the deadlift. my bench press and overhead press have barely improved at all. i already had a lot of the strength when i started training them.

5

Even though you said you focused on legs for some time, I don’t think you’re that disproportionate. I rep 1.66x for squats and 1.1x for bench. You’re a beginner like me, so I would worry more about increasing overall strength than your relative ratios.

I think most people who aren’t serious with training neglect the legs so you may “feel” like you chest is lagging.

I’ve heard goals of 2x bodyweight in squat and 1.5x for bench, so that’s a 1.33 ratio. Also 500/400/300 for dead/squat/bench is a 1.33 ratio squat to bench. In my experience though, 1.33 for squat to bench seems a little low, but maybe my legs are just progressing faster. Anyone aware of a good ratio?

6

[quote]sd_13 wrote:
Also, 5/3/1 calls for very slow monthly progress, and I do think that I can still progress linearly (obviously not as fast for the squat and deadlift, but I still think I can add weight more than once a month).[/quote]

God dammit…I really wish people would stop seeing the ‘add 5 lbs and then repeat cycle’ advice as ‘slow progress’. This isn’t the same thing as adding ‘only’ 5 lbs to your bench per cycle…not that adding 60 pounds to your bench in a year is a bad thing

If you are a beginner, and you are busting your ass on the 5+, 3+, and 1+ sets, then you are going to put way more than 5 pound per month on your bench press.

Your line of thinking is simply incorrect. But it seems as if you are in good company. It would probably help if more people actually read (and comprehended) the program first.

7

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

If you are a beginner, and you are busting your ass on the 5+, 3+, and 1+ sets, then you are going to put way more than 5 pound per month on your bench press. [/quote]

Well, yeah… exactly. I think I could put more than 5 pound per month on my bench press. JW says to limit your progress to 5 pounds. that’s what i don’t understand. why would one limit their progress? i figure i can just recalculate my max every month, adjust to 90% training max like he says, then train accordingly with the provided percentages. but if that brings me to more than five pounds more than the last month, why would i not do that?

8

If you are recalculating your max every month, then you aren’t doing 5-3-1.

I will bet everything I own that you will never be able to produce a reference of Jim Wendler telling someone to LIMIT their progress to 5 pounds. That is absolutely retarded. His advice is simply to only add 5 pounds to the calculations that you are using, and bust your ass with that weight.

I’ll make this real easy for you: if you are repping 225 for 8 reps in Month 1, and repping 230 for 10 reps in Month 2, do you really think you’ve added “just 5 pounds” of progress? If you do, boy do I have a bridge for you!

9

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If you are recalculating your max every month, then you aren’t doing 5-3-1.

I will bet everything I own that you will never be able to produce a reference of Jim Wendler telling someone to LIMIT their progress to 5 pounds. That is absolutely retarded. His advice is simply to only add 5 pounds to the calculations that you are using, and bust your ass with that weight.

I’ll make this real easy for you: if you are repping 225 for 8 reps in Month 1, and repping 230 for 10 reps in Month 2, do you really think you’ve added “just 5 pounds” of progress? If you do, boy do I have a bridge for you![/quote]

PAGE 27: “In the second four week phase, the lifter will increase his maxes no more than 5 pounds per upper body lift, and 10 pounds for lower body lifts. These increases are to the max that youâ??re basing your percentages on. Youâ??re NOT increasing the weight for each set.”

i think i’ve been underestimating the intensity of the program. you see, i’ve always trained 3x5. i’m used to seeing my weight go up, not the number of reps. i’ve never even thought about continuing to lift after i’ve hit 5 reps. i always just call it a day and add another 5 pounds the next time.

i think i’ll just stick strictly to the program + boring but big template.

another question: leg curls seem pretty isolating to me. can i sub anything for these or should i just leave it?

10

Your raw deadlift should be a lot higher than your raw bench unless you’re a complete fat ass that never deadlifts.

Unless you just have great squat leverages your raw lifts should go:

  1. deadlift
  2. squat
  3. bench

Also, this is powerlifting. Who cares about how many times body weight something is?

11

[quote]sd_13 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If you are recalculating your max every month, then you aren’t doing 5-3-1.

I will bet everything I own that you will never be able to produce a reference of Jim Wendler telling someone to LIMIT their progress to 5 pounds. That is absolutely retarded. His advice is simply to only add 5 pounds to the calculations that you are using, and bust your ass with that weight.

I’ll make this real easy for you: if you are repping 225 for 8 reps in Month 1, and repping 230 for 10 reps in Month 2, do you really think you’ve added “just 5 pounds” of progress? If you do, boy do I have a bridge for you![/quote]

PAGE 27: “In the second four week phase, the lifter will increase his maxes no more than 5 pounds per upper body lift, and 10 pounds for lower body lifts. These increases are to the max that youâ??re basing your percentages on. Youâ??re NOT increasing the weight for each set.”

i think i’ve been underestimating the intensity of the program. you see, i’ve always trained 3x5. i’m used to seeing my weight go up, not the number of reps. i’ve never even thought about continuing to lift after i’ve hit 5 reps. i always just call it a day and add another 5 pounds the next time.

i think i’ll just stick strictly to the program + boring but big template.

another question: leg curls seem pretty isolating to me. can i sub anything for these or should i just leave it?[/quote]

Do several cycles of 5/3/1 as written before you start tweaking it for you. It just plain works.

There are plenty of things you can do in place of leg curls-good mornings or romanian deadlifts, reverse hypers, GHRs.

My DL day (except deload week): Deadlift 5/3/1 whatever week I am in. BBB DL 51050% of that cycle max. Abs, grip, and prowler pushing
My SQ day (except deload week): Squat 5/3/1 whatever week I am in. BBB SQ 51050% of that cycle max. Abs, grip, prowler pushing.

My hamstrings get plenty of work from squatting, DLing, and prowler pushing. In essence, if you do BBB SQ and DL, you won’t need to worry about leg curls.

12

[quote]sd_13 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If you are recalculating your max every month, then you aren’t doing 5-3-1.

I will bet everything I own that you will never be able to produce a reference of Jim Wendler telling someone to LIMIT their progress to 5 pounds. That is absolutely retarded. His advice is simply to only add 5 pounds to the calculations that you are using, and bust your ass with that weight.

I’ll make this real easy for you: if you are repping 225 for 8 reps in Month 1, and repping 230 for 10 reps in Month 2, do you really think you’ve added “just 5 pounds” of progress? If you do, boy do I have a bridge for you![/quote]

PAGE 27: “In the second four week phase, the lifter will increase his maxes no more than 5 pounds per upper body lift, and 10 pounds for lower body lifts. These increases are to the max that youâ??re basing your percentages on. Youâ??re NOT increasing the weight for each set.”

i think i’ve been underestimating the intensity of the program. you see, i’ve always trained 3x5. i’m used to seeing my weight go up, not the number of reps. i’ve never even thought about continuing to lift after i’ve hit 5 reps. i always just call it a day and add another 5 pounds the next time.

i think i’ll just stick strictly to the program + boring but big template.

another question: leg curls seem pretty isolating to me. can i sub anything for these or should i just leave it?[/quote]

You’re catching on…I think you are on the right track…I mean, you can only add 5 pounds to the bar every time you walk into the gym for so long. Also, if I remember correctly, Starting Strength has a discussion on why that same philosophy doesn’t work as well for Bench. It could have been on the SS Wiki though.

The quote on Page 27 is talking about the number you are using in your calculations, which are used to determine the weights for each set. As i said before, and you acknowledged, is that progress is made at these weights by increasing the reps AND the weight, and not just from the weight.

Sorry for hijacking this thread and turning it into yet another 5-3-1 humpfest, I just wanted to clear up any ambiguity that seems to exist, because I think it’s a great program and I want to do it justice. It has done wonders for my beard.

13

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]sd_13 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If you are recalculating your max every month, then you aren’t doing 5-3-1.

I will bet everything I own that you will never be able to produce a reference of Jim Wendler telling someone to LIMIT their progress to 5 pounds. That is absolutely retarded. His advice is simply to only add 5 pounds to the calculations that you are using, and bust your ass with that weight.

I’ll make this real easy for you: if you are repping 225 for 8 reps in Month 1, and repping 230 for 10 reps in Month 2, do you really think you’ve added “just 5 pounds” of progress? If you do, boy do I have a bridge for you![/quote]

PAGE 27: “In the second four week phase, the lifter will increase his maxes no more than 5 pounds per upper body lift, and 10 pounds for lower body lifts. These increases are to the max that youÃ?¢??re basing your percentages on. YouÃ?¢??re NOT increasing the weight for each set.”

i think i’ve been underestimating the intensity of the program. you see, i’ve always trained 3x5. i’m used to seeing my weight go up, not the number of reps. i’ve never even thought about continuing to lift after i’ve hit 5 reps. i always just call it a day and add another 5 pounds the next time.

i think i’ll just stick strictly to the program + boring but big template.

another question: leg curls seem pretty isolating to me. can i sub anything for these or should i just leave it?[/quote]

You’re catching on…I think you are on the right track…I mean, you can only add 5 pounds to the bar every time you walk into the gym for so long. Also, if I remember correctly, Starting Strength has a discussion on why that same philosophy doesn’t work as well for Bench. It could have been on the SS Wiki though.

The quote on Page 27 is talking about the number you are using in your calculations, which are used to determine the weights for each set. As i said before, and you acknowledged, is that progress is made at these weights by increasing the reps AND the weight, and not just from the weight.

Sorry for hijacking this thread and turning it into yet another 5-3-1 humpfest, I just wanted to clear up any ambiguity that seems to exist, because I think it’s a great program and I want to do it justice. It has done wonders for my beard.[/quote]

your beard? haha man i’ve grown so much more chest hair and my beard is a hell of a lot thicker since i started squatting and deadlifting. testosterone is definitely rising.

5/3/1 sounds just plain awesome. but i do think i could make better progress on a linear progression program probably for another two months or so. like, my bench press isn’t even at bodyweight. that’s just pathetic. so i think i’m going to use the 5/3/1 exercise schedule but run it 3x5 linearly (and 5x10 for assistance exercises like normal) for just a couple months, then i’ll run the actual program and boring but big just as specified, but i’ll sub leg curls for good mornings or SLDL.

do you think that’s a good idea? i just want to get my lifts in balance. i think if i stop heavy squatting 3x a week i’ll be able to add 25 pounds on my bench in two months, no problem. then 5/3/1 it is.

14

Your lifts will eventually balance out as they will progress at different rates. Your BP may not go up for months and then skyrocket. Same with the others. 531 is a form of linear progression except the progression is more specifically spelled out. Also, just because it says 5 or 10 lb increases, you may only be able to get a 2.5 or 5 lb increase. If that is the case, either grind it out with smaller jumps or reset your training max to 90%.

531 is beautifully simple. Don’t over think it. Just do it. I have not heard one single person who followed it as written as having anything but good things to say about it. Also, stick with the same lifts over several cycles, don’t change them up after each cycle. There are literally over 100 pages of 531 threads in 3 parts on this site. I can’t recall any of the postings saying anything bad.

Do 5-3-1 and see how well it works for you. It is a plan for the long run and nothing that will give you overnight gains in size and strength. Getting bigger and stronger is a marathon, not a race. Have patience, lift hard, eat well, rest and be rewarded by being bigger and stronger year in and year out.

15

[quote]blake b wrote:
Your lifts will eventually balance out as they will progress at different rates. Your BP may not go up for months and then skyrocket. Same with the others. 531 is a form of linear progression except the progression is more specifically spelled out. Also, just because it says 5 or 10 lb increases, you may only be able to get a 2.5 or 5 lb increase. If that is the case, either grind it out with smaller jumps or reset your training max to 90%.

531 is beautifully simple. Don’t over think it. Just do it. I have not heard one single person who followed it as written as having anything but good things to say about it. Also, stick with the same lifts over several cycles, don’t change them up after each cycle. There are literally over 100 pages of 531 threads in 3 parts on this site. I can’t recall any of the postings saying anything bad.

Do 5-3-1 and see how well it works for you. It is a plan for the long run and nothing that will give you overnight gains in size and strength. Getting bigger and stronger is a marathon, not a race. Have patience, lift hard, eat well, rest and be rewarded by being bigger and stronger year in and year out. [/quote]

you guys are definitely wise ones.

i suppose i could just run it. it just seems like it isn’t meant for a beginner like myself. but you guys all realize that i’m benching 0.8 bodyweight. and that’s 3x5 so i guess that’s not terrible… but no one’s really saying 'don’t even think about doing it til you’re intermediate" so i guess it can’t be a bad idea.

16

Truthfully, at the beginner level, I don’t think it matters much. Get in the gym, bust your ass on a program that isn’t batshit retarded, eat like a horse, sleep, grow, repeat.

17

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Truthfully, at the beginner level, I don’t think it matters much. Get in the gym, bust your ass on a program that isn’t batshit retarded, eat like a horse, sleep, grow, repeat. [/quote]

EXACTLY. There are far too many fucking beginners now tinkering with programs to get results. Just get into the gym, lift heavy shit, then go home and eat. Do a bodybuilding workout if you want, you’ll still get stronger. Stop focusing on the minor details.

18

alright, thanks guys, i think i’ll see how 5/3/1 works for me. i like how it lets me do the big four in both low and high rep sets. should work out 'cause i’m not an idiot when it comes to nutrition, and i usually sleep 9 hours a night. later days.

19

as long as your form is good on the lifts, i dont think it matters a bit that your numbers arent huge. i mean, take a look at the threads, people start at very different levels of strength and have success. Jim did not invent some new, secret training philosophy. he saw from years of experience what worked the best, and then he wiped away the bullshit and the gimics. if you give 531 an honest try, THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN, you will learn a ton about lifting, and oddly, even though you will be following a program, i feel a sense of freedom from it, that i hadnt before. to clarify that, it will take a cycle or two (couple months) to memorize the program, so that you know “ok today im military pressing 3 x 70%, 3 x 80%, then 3+ 90%” but once that clicks in, i felt very free.

BUT, dont get overzealous and start changing it. dont think “oh, i got 10 on my 5’s week, 8 on my 3’s week…” etc and think you can make bigger jumps than are suggested. thats the fastest way to not only stop progressing, but actually regress! slow and steady for the long term. recent Jim quote applicable here- Rome wasn’t built in a day, but can be burned in one.

20

btw, buy the book. dont try and piece it together through various internet sources. best 20 bucks ive spent to make progress in the gym, supps and snake oils included.