Greatest Pound for Pound Fighter EVER?

Training
81

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.[/quote]

I would love to see Silva vs. Fedor, that would be an awesome fight.

The argument against Silva fighting at 185 (and previously 170) is that, like most fighters, he cuts weight in an attempt to be as big as possible for his weight class. This is standard practice of course, so you can’t really blame him for it. Lately he’s been fighting at 205, but he still cuts to make that weight.

Fedor on the other hand, not only doesn’t cut, but actually chooses to fight bigger, stronger opponents. In other words, he fights up while Silva (and just about everyone else) fights down.

Silva has the advantage in terms of striking (above either Fedor or GSP) and generally makes his opponents look like amateurs, Fedor has the advantage (over Silva) in takedowns, GnP, and has the most wins by submission of the 3, also probably strongest mentally. GSP is the best wrestler of the bunch, and probably the most athletic (strong, fast, agile, learns physical skills very quickly, etc…).

Who is best p4p just comes down to what criteria you place the most value on.

82

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.

I would love to see Silva vs. Fedor, that would be an awesome fight.

The argument against Silva fighting at 185 (and previously 170) is that, like most fighters, he cuts weight in an attempt to be as big as possible for his weight class. This is standard practice of course, so you can’t really blame him for it. Lately he’s been fighting at 205, but he still cuts to make that weight.

Fedor on the other hand, not only doesn’t cut, but actually chooses to fight bigger, stronger opponents. In other words, he fights up while Silva (and just about everyone else) fights down.

Silva has the advantage in terms of striking (above either Fedor or GSP) and generally makes his opponents look like amateurs, Fedor has the advantage (over Silva) in takedowns, GnP, and has the most wins by submission of the 3, also probably strongest mentally. GSP is the best wrestler of the bunch, and probably the most athletic (strong, fast, agile, learns physical skills very quickly, etc…).

Who is best p4p just comes down to what criteria you place the most value on.[/quote]

The thing I hate about these fights is that if they do make it happen they’ll do it when both are far past their prime.

And why does everyone give credit to Silva over Machida? Even I get caught up in it too but statistically Machida is every bit as good if not better, just looks alot more robotic. Will Looks always count?

83

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.[/quote]

For over a hundred years, the term “Fighter” has been used for boxers. So I don’t give two flying fucks if you think boxing is “incomplete”- boxers will be in the discussion.

Why is it that the regulars on this forum have no problem switching back and forth between talking about boxing and MMA (and it’s understood what’s going on), but as soon as some douche who clicks on a title on the front page comes on, immediately one of the sports gets insulted?

84

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.

I would love to see Silva vs. Fedor, that would be an awesome fight.

The argument against Silva fighting at 185 (and previously 170) is that, like most fighters, he cuts weight in an attempt to be as big as possible for his weight class. This is standard practice of course, so you can’t really blame him for it. Lately he’s been fighting at 205, but he still cuts to make that weight.

Fedor on the other hand, not only doesn’t cut, but actually chooses to fight bigger, stronger opponents. In other words, he fights up while Silva (and just about everyone else) fights down.

Silva has the advantage in terms of striking (above either Fedor or GSP) and generally makes his opponents look like amateurs, Fedor has the advantage (over Silva) in takedowns, GnP, and has the most wins by submission of the 3, also probably strongest mentally. GSP is the best wrestler of the bunch, and probably the most athletic (strong, fast, agile, learns physical skills very quickly, etc…).

Who is best p4p just comes down to what criteria you place the most value on.

The thing I hate about these fights is that if they do make it happen they’ll do it when both are far past their prime.

And why does everyone give credit to Silva over Machida? Even I get caught up in it too but statistically Machida is every bit as good if not better, just looks alot more robotic. Will Looks always count?
[/quote]

Silva has cleaned out his weight class, Lyoto has not done that as of yet… but I definitely agree that Machida on paper is actually more complete… his takedown defence and grappling strength are miles ahead of Anderson’s… so he basically has no real weaknesses that we know of.

85

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.

I would love to see Silva vs. Fedor, that would be an awesome fight.

The argument against Silva fighting at 185 (and previously 170) is that, like most fighters, he cuts weight in an attempt to be as big as possible for his weight class. This is standard practice of course, so you can’t really blame him for it. Lately he’s been fighting at 205, but he still cuts to make that weight.

Fedor on the other hand, not only doesn’t cut, but actually chooses to fight bigger, stronger opponents. In other words, he fights up while Silva (and just about everyone else) fights down.

Silva has the advantage in terms of striking (above either Fedor or GSP) and generally makes his opponents look like amateurs, Fedor has the advantage (over Silva) in takedowns, GnP, and has the most wins by submission of the 3, also probably strongest mentally. GSP is the best wrestler of the bunch, and probably the most athletic (strong, fast, agile, learns physical skills very quickly, etc…).

Who is best p4p just comes down to what criteria you place the most value on.

The thing I hate about these fights is that if they do make it happen they’ll do it when both are far past their prime.

And why does everyone give credit to Silva over Machida? Even I get caught up in it too but statistically Machida is every bit as good if not better, just looks alot more robotic. Will Looks always count?

Silva has cleaned out his weight class, Lyoto has not done that as of yet… but I definitely agree that Machida on paper is actually more complete… his takedown defence and grappling strength are miles ahead of Anderson’s… so he basically has no real weaknesses that we know of.[/quote]

Yeah, I’d agree. If Lyoto keeps winning, then he’d have to be considered in the conversation as well. Anderson is just so much fun to watch though. The guy makes everyone else look stupid, much like RJJ in his prime.

86

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.

I would love to see Silva vs. Fedor, that would be an awesome fight.

The argument against Silva fighting at 185 (and previously 170) is that, like most fighters, he cuts weight in an attempt to be as big as possible for his weight class. This is standard practice of course, so you can’t really blame him for it. Lately he’s been fighting at 205, but he still cuts to make that weight.

Fedor on the other hand, not only doesn’t cut, but actually chooses to fight bigger, stronger opponents. In other words, he fights up while Silva (and just about everyone else) fights down.

Silva has the advantage in terms of striking (above either Fedor or GSP) and generally makes his opponents look like amateurs, Fedor has the advantage (over Silva) in takedowns, GnP, and has the most wins by submission of the 3, also probably strongest mentally. GSP is the best wrestler of the bunch, and probably the most athletic (strong, fast, agile, learns physical skills very quickly, etc…).

Who is best p4p just comes down to what criteria you place the most value on.

The thing I hate about these fights is that if they do make it happen they’ll do it when both are far past their prime.

And why does everyone give credit to Silva over Machida? Even I get caught up in it too but statistically Machida is every bit as good if not better, just looks alot more robotic. Will Looks always count?

Silva has cleaned out his weight class, Lyoto has not done that as of yet… but I definitely agree that Machida on paper is actually more complete… his takedown defence and grappling strength are miles ahead of Anderson’s… so he basically has no real weaknesses that we know of.[/quote]

The way I look at it is it’s just a matter of time before someone figures Machidas style out and ko’s him, but not sure if anyone in MMA can figure Silvas style out. Not saying Silva’s indestructible, but his footwork and head movement are lightyears ahead of anyone else in MMA, outside of maybe Belfort. Silva fighting some of the beasts at 205 will make things all the more interesting though.

87

How can GSP get the title when he isn’t even the most dominant welterweight, when he breaks Hughes record then I will put him in discussion. Same with Machida does everyone forget how dominant Wanderlei and Chuck were, when he cleans out his division he enters the conversation.

88

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
For over a hundred years, the term “Fighter” has been used for boxers. So I don’t give two flying fucks if you think boxing is “incomplete”- boxers will be in the discussion.[/quote]

Why should boxers be in the discussion? Did you even read what the OP posted? He said “if Anderson Silva, Fedor Emilianenko, & George Saint Pierre were in the same weightclass, who’d win?” so I don’t give to flying fucks how much you cream your pants over boxing.

Maybe you don’t understand the term douche, much like you confused what the OP asked with what you wanted to discuss. Douche refers to someone who has shown himself to be very brainless in some way. Your (in)ability to read the original post would qualify you, not I for that.

And btw, since you may need a reminder, I answered the OPs question by saying the best P4P is silva. That’s my opinion. Which of the three would you choose?

89

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
For over a hundred years, the term “Fighter” has been used for boxers. So I don’t give two flying fucks if you think boxing is “incomplete”- boxers will be in the discussion.

Why should boxers be in the discussion? Did you even read what the OP posted? He said “if Anderson Silva, Fedor Emilianenko, & George Saint Pierre were in the same weightclass, who’d win?” so I don’t give to flying fucks how much you cream your pants over boxing.

Why is it that the regulars on this forum have no problem switching back and forth between talking about boxing and MMA (and it’s understood what’s going on), but as soon as some douche who clicks on a title on the front page comes on, immediately one of the sports gets insulted?

Maybe you don’t understand the term douche, much like you confused what the OP asked with what you wanted to discuss. Douche refers to someone who has shown himself to be very brainless in some way. Your (in)ability to read the original post would qualify you, not I for that.

And btw, since you may need a reminder, I answered the OPs question by saying the best P4P is silva. That’s my opinion. Which of the three would you choose?[/quote]

I didn’t confuse anything. I simply posted a picture of Sugar Ray. Every one on here knows I like boxing, so they took it in the right context.

And besides that, others went back and forth with boxing and MMA, the best of each. You’re the only one who came on here whining about how boxers shouldn’t be considered.

90

I think boxing should be considered because its part of MMA. But to answer the OP’s question, Fedor will beat them all. Reasoning behind said statement: look at his record. He’s fought the who’s who of MMA and dominated almost every fight. Technically, Fedors Sambo would completely dismantle Silva’s Thai clinch so Silva would have to keep it standing. Fedor has a great deal of strength so pulling him down or shooting would be easy and successful.

Fedors strength and ground skill would take over leading to a submission victory. But that would be a great fight to watch. A BJJ BB a la the Nog bros vs a Sambo and judo legend. But the pfp list is retarded and should not even be valued by fans in any way. There was a time Miguel Torres ranked higher than Brock Lesnar. And we all know who’d win that fight.

I have tons of respect for Torres and think he’s a great fighter, but come on, a 135’er fighting a guy that has to cut to 265. Something is just not right with the way the list is created.

91

[quote]others went back and forth with boxing and MMA[/quote] True. They did. But because I attempted to keep this thread on track does not make me a douche. Quite the contrary. Sugar Ray is the shit. I love boxing and watching the greats like him. They have great skill and are of higher caliber at what they do. Perhaps I did a poor job of keeping the thread on track with my choice to say they boxers are not complete. That should be separate from this debate. Refer to here: Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness

92

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.

For over a hundred years, the term “Fighter” has been used for boxers. So I don’t give two flying fucks if you think boxing is “incomplete”- boxers will be in the discussion.

Why is it that the regulars on this forum have no problem switching back and forth between talking about boxing and MMA (and it’s understood what’s going on), but as soon as some douche who clicks on a title on the front page comes on, immediately one of the sports gets insulted?[/quote]

Here, Here!

93

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.

I would love to see Silva vs. Fedor, that would be an awesome fight.

The argument against Silva fighting at 185 (and previously 170) is that, like most fighters, he cuts weight in an attempt to be as big as possible for his weight class. This is standard practice of course, so you can’t really blame him for it. Lately he’s been fighting at 205, but he still cuts to make that weight.

Fedor on the other hand, not only doesn’t cut, but actually chooses to fight bigger, stronger opponents. In other words, he fights up while Silva (and just about everyone else) fights down.

Silva has the advantage in terms of striking (above either Fedor or GSP) and generally makes his opponents look like amateurs, Fedor has the advantage (over Silva) in takedowns, GnP, and has the most wins by submission of the 3, also probably strongest mentally. GSP is the best wrestler of the bunch, and probably the most athletic (strong, fast, agile, learns physical skills very quickly, etc…).

Who is best p4p just comes down to what criteria you place the most value on.

The thing I hate about these fights is that if they do make it happen they’ll do it when both are far past their prime.

And why does everyone give credit to Silva over Machida? Even I get caught up in it too but statistically Machida is every bit as good if not better, just looks alot more robotic. Will Looks always count?

Silva has cleaned out his weight class, Lyoto has not done that as of yet… but I definitely agree that Machida on paper is actually more complete… his takedown defence and grappling strength are miles ahead of Anderson’s… so he basically has no real weaknesses that we know of.[/quote]

When have we seen his grappling strength?

94

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
People are acting like prime Ali didn’t lose fights. He did, he is considered great because he was able to overcome his losses, even the ones to the government.[/quote]

EDIT. This was a bit pendantic. So I left it out.

95

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Greatest.[/quote]

I would’nt disagree Irish, but most people on here probably have no clue who this is

96

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Silva has cleaned out his weight class, Lyoto has not done that as of yet… but I definitely agree that Machida on paper is actually more complete… his takedown defence and grappling strength are miles ahead of Anderson’s… so he basically has no real weaknesses that we know of.

When have we seen his grappling strength?[/quote]

Machida has EXCELLENT hips. Nakamura & Evans fights come to mind

97

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.

I would love to see Silva vs. Fedor, that would be an awesome fight.

The argument against Silva fighting at 185 (and previously 170) is that, like most fighters, he cuts weight in an attempt to be as big as possible for his weight class. This is standard practice of course, so you can’t really blame him for it. Lately he’s been fighting at 205, but he still cuts to make that weight.

Fedor on the other hand, not only doesn’t cut, but actually chooses to fight bigger, stronger opponents. In other words, he fights up while Silva (and just about everyone else) fights down.

Silva has the advantage in terms of striking (above either Fedor or GSP) and generally makes his opponents look like amateurs, Fedor has the advantage (over Silva) in takedowns, GnP, and has the most wins by submission of the 3, also probably strongest mentally. GSP is the best wrestler of the bunch, and probably the most athletic (strong, fast, agile, learns physical skills very quickly, etc…).

Who is best p4p just comes down to what criteria you place the most value on.

The thing I hate about these fights is that if they do make it happen they’ll do it when both are far past their prime.

And why does everyone give credit to Silva over Machida? Even I get caught up in it too but statistically Machida is every bit as good if not better, just looks alot more robotic. Will Looks always count?

Silva has cleaned out his weight class, Lyoto has not done that as of yet… but I definitely agree that Machida on paper is actually more complete… his takedown defence and grappling strength are miles ahead of Anderson’s… so he basically has no real weaknesses that we know of.

When have we seen his grappling strength?[/quote]

Against Tito for sure. Anderson has been ragdolled many a time, in fact I’m really stupified that people don’t consider it a weakness at this point in a P4P discussion, even though he has a great guard game. Lyoto on the other hand seems to have great TD defence and great trips.

98

Way to early for Machida to be in the mix. He beat Rich before Rich was Rich, beat BJ in a HW fight, beat Tito, and Evans, but hasn’t put together a 2-3 year reign of dominance like Silva or Fedor.

99

[quote]cromwell2007 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Greatest.

I would’nt disagree Irish, but most people on here probably have no clue who this is[/quote]

Haha. If they’re students of combat sports, they’d better!

100

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.

I would love to see Silva vs. Fedor, that would be an awesome fight.

The argument against Silva fighting at 185 (and previously 170) is that, like most fighters, he cuts weight in an attempt to be as big as possible for his weight class. This is standard practice of course, so you can’t really blame him for it. Lately he’s been fighting at 205, but he still cuts to make that weight.

Fedor on the other hand, not only doesn’t cut, but actually chooses to fight bigger, stronger opponents. In other words, he fights up while Silva (and just about everyone else) fights down.

Silva has the advantage in terms of striking (above either Fedor or GSP) and generally makes his opponents look like amateurs, Fedor has the advantage (over Silva) in takedowns, GnP, and has the most wins by submission of the 3, also probably strongest mentally. GSP is the best wrestler of the bunch, and probably the most athletic (strong, fast, agile, learns physical skills very quickly, etc…).

Who is best p4p just comes down to what criteria you place the most value on.

The thing I hate about these fights is that if they do make it happen they’ll do it when both are far past their prime.

And why does everyone give credit to Silva over Machida? Even I get caught up in it too but statistically Machida is every bit as good if not better, just looks alot more robotic. Will Looks always count?

Silva has cleaned out his weight class, Lyoto has not done that as of yet… but I definitely agree that Machida on paper is actually more complete… his takedown defence and grappling strength are miles ahead of Anderson’s… so he basically has no real weaknesses that we know of.

When have we seen his grappling strength?

Against Tito for sure. Anderson has been ragdolled many a time, in fact I’m really stupified that people don’t consider it a weakness at this point in a P4P discussion, even though he has a great guard game. Lyoto on the other hand seems to have great TD defence and great trips.[/quote]

Tito nearly hooked up a triangle on him (I know, nearly.)

I am not saying that Machida doesn’t have great have great grappling I am just saying that I haven’t seen it yet. Silva seemed to have issues with TD defence in the past though in his last few fights that has improved. Once on the ground he is very good.

I think they are well matched in all areas and it would be a great fight.