Gracie-killer, Kazushi Sakuraba. Hands down.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
drewh wrote:
Foreman would have destroyedd Tyson, Tyson even admitted Ali wold have beat him.
I was going to mention Foreman.
Tyson was incredibly explosive and hit like a freight train, but he also heavily on his aggressive style and (as you can see by his fight with Douglas) didn’t do too well when his opponent wasn’t afraid of his power and kept coming at him.
If you watch the fight between Foreman and Frazier you’ll see just how powerful Foreman was. Keep in mind that Frazier was coming off a pretty impressive win against Ali in that fight and everyone thought that he would beat or at least take Foreman the distance. Foreman absolutely destroyed him.
I would have loved to see a fight between a prime Tyson and a prime Ali though. Or a prime Marciano and a prime Ali. Those would be some awesome fights.
Douglas beat a Tyson who’d lost his mentor and wasn’t really training. No one will ever know how great Tyson could’ve been, but I feel like he woul’ve been the best. Didn’t mean for that to take away from what Buster did.
Floyd Patterson called Tyson perfectly- a great fighter who was going to get hit a lot when he slowed down.
Ali would have not only gotten inside and twisted up Tyson’s head so bad that he wouldn’t have known which side was up. And after that, the man who took Joe Frazier’s best punches for 36 rounds and George Foreman’s best for 8 rounds would have utterly demolished Tyson as soon as he tired out.
Frazier’s hook could break cement- and that couldn’t knock Ali out. And there’s no way that Ali would have been outpointed by Tyson.
Ali would have knocked him out somewhere around the eighth or ninth with a hard right hand uppercut.
Now Frazier- he fought the same as Tyson. Bobbing and weaving, good footwork, stormed inside to land hard punches. Tyson threw punches in bunches, and that could have hurt Joe- but knocking Joe out was damn near impossible. He would have bobbed and weaved and landed that big left hook a couple times that would have shook Tyson badly, maybe stopped him from throwing so many punches. After that, maybe around the ninth or tenth, Tyson would KO’d on a big left.
Dempsey… well, the newspapers once called him “187 lbs. of unbridled violence.” The man was the most brutal heavyweight to step in the ring- power in both hands, and he invented that bobbing and weaving style that he learned in the bars. Same result, but much quicker- the man who shattered Jess Willards face would do the same to Tyson. The only one who could fluster Dempsey- would have been Ali, because he would have fought like Gene Tunney did and outboxed him.
And Ali’s foil? Joe Frazier.
Tyson, with his heart of a pup and his tendency to slow down and give up, would have no chance in there with those legends who fought with every ounce of their being and proved, over and over, that they’d leave their lives in the ring if necessary.
It’s kind of like saying that “These following people are all War Leaders: Roosevelt, Churchill, George W. Bush.”
Well guys, one of these things is not like the other.[/quote]
Look man, I respect Frazier and Ali, and I’m from Houston so you know I got love for Big George, but I think you’re off on some of these. Tyson was basiclly a bigger, stonger faster Frazier. I know Frazier hit hard but I’m not sure if anyone in the history of the sport has hit with the speed and power of a young Tyson. Don’t remember who it was [Burbick maybe?] where they were inside trading and Tyson landed a left hook with the guys guard up. He didn’t hit him in the head, he hit him in the forearm and the force knocked the guy down, like someone just shoved him to the ground. It didn’t hurt him, but the look in his eye as the ref was counting was priceless. He was scared shitless and knew he was getting knocked out. I think you’re looking at Tyson as a whole while I’m talking about the Mike Tyson’s PunchOut era Tyson. If D’amato had maybe reigned him in a little and King had never gotten his claws into him I’m convincd we’d be talking about the most dominant heavyweight of all-time. But that’s obviously just my take. My pop was a huge Dempsey fan. My favorite story is when he cracked that did in the face so hard that his planted ankle broke from the torque.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
kmcnyc wrote:
I think this is the longest a type2b thread remained civil…
Fuck you![/quote]
see that’s all it takes.
<^_^>
I am going to have to go with
Muhamed Ali GOAT
Ill add two more
Dan Gable
Alexander Karelin
Dan Gable- while not the best, nor the most successful US wrestler
changed the sport and redefined intensity
Karelin- what to say , he was every one’s bad dream the original experiment
until his only loss was near perfect 13 years of undefeated success, 6 years of international
competition unscored upon
Wrestling is not fighting imo close but not quite
[quote]Karelin- what to say , he was every one’s bad dream the original experiment
until his only loss was near perfect 13 years of undefeated success, 6 years of international
competition unscored upon [/quote]
Totally forgot about Karelin. Scary Bastard.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Greatest.[/quote]
QFT
fedor for sure. but according to wikipedia he died today… Fedor Emelianenko - Wikipedia
[quote]drewh wrote:
Wrestling is not fighting imo close but not quite[/quote]
No sport is really fighting.
[quote]tassietaekwon wrote:
drewh wrote:
Wrestling is not fighting imo close but not quite
No sport is really fighting.
[/quote]
That’s true. How would one of these guys react if someone drove his fingers into their eyes or tried to bite a vein (Kina Mutai-style)?
middleweight = sugar ray robinson
this guy was a machine in the ring. he faught and beat everyone. His record says it all.
Total fights 200
Wins 173
Wins by KO 108
Losses 19
The king, the master, my idol. <<<< seriously
â??Muhammad Ali on Robinson
heavyweight = tyson in prime would be best ever.
Tyson in his prime was untouchable. Some are saying Ali would beat tyson?..can you imagine ali standing on the ropes talking tysons punches for 8 rounds the way he did agaist foreman? i dont think so. Tyson is a new breed of heavyweight- explosive, powerful and accurate. Ali would land few jabs 1st round …rest is history
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
drewh wrote:
Foreman would have destroyedd Tyson, Tyson even admitted Ali wold have beat him.
I was going to mention Foreman.
Tyson was incredibly explosive and hit like a freight train, but he also heavily on his aggressive style and (as you can see by his fight with Douglas) didn’t do too well when his opponent wasn’t afraid of his power and kept coming at him.
If you watch the fight between Foreman and Frazier you’ll see just how powerful Foreman was. Keep in mind that Frazier was coming off a pretty impressive win against Ali in that fight and everyone thought that he would beat or at least take Foreman the distance. Foreman absolutely destroyed him.
I would have loved to see a fight between a prime Tyson and a prime Ali though. Or a prime Marciano and a prime Ali. Those would be some awesome fights.
Douglas beat a Tyson who’d lost his mentor and wasn’t really training. No one will ever know how great Tyson could’ve been, but I feel like he woul’ve been the best. Didn’t mean for that to take away from what Buster did.
Floyd Patterson called Tyson perfectly- a great fighter who was going to get hit a lot when he slowed down.
Ali would have not only gotten inside and twisted up Tyson’s head so bad that he wouldn’t have known which side was up. And after that, the man who took Joe Frazier’s best punches for 36 rounds and George Foreman’s best for 8 rounds would have utterly demolished Tyson as soon as he tired out.
Frazier’s hook could break cement- and that couldn’t knock Ali out. And there’s no way that Ali would have been outpointed by Tyson.
Ali would have knocked him out somewhere around the eighth or ninth with a hard right hand uppercut.
Now Frazier- he fought the same as Tyson. Bobbing and weaving, good footwork, stormed inside to land hard punches. Tyson threw punches in bunches, and that could have hurt Joe- but knocking Joe out was damn near impossible. He would have bobbed and weaved and landed that big left hook a couple times that would have shook Tyson badly, maybe stopped him from throwing so many punches. After that, maybe around the ninth or tenth, Tyson would KO’d on a big left.
Dempsey… well, the newspapers once called him “187 lbs. of unbridled violence.” The man was the most brutal heavyweight to step in the ring- power in both hands, and he invented that bobbing and weaving style that he learned in the bars. Same result, but much quicker- the man who shattered Jess Willards face would do the same to Tyson. The only one who could fluster Dempsey- would have been Ali, because he would have fought like Gene Tunney did and outboxed him.
And Ali’s foil? Joe Frazier.
Tyson, with his heart of a pup and his tendency to slow down and give up, would have no chance in there with those legends who fought with every ounce of their being and proved, over and over, that they’d leave their lives in the ring if necessary.
It’s kind of like saying that “These following people are all War Leaders: Roosevelt, Churchill, George W. Bush.”
Well guys, one of these things is not like the other.
Look man, I respect Frazier and Ali, and I’m from Houston so you know I got love for Big George, but I think you’re off on some of these. Tyson was basiclly a bigger, stonger faster Frazier. I know Frazier hit hard but I’m not sure if anyone in the history of the sport has hit with the speed and power of a young Tyson. Don’t remember who it was [Burbick maybe?] where they were inside trading and Tyson landed a left hook with the guys guard up. He didn’t hit him in the head, he hit him in the forearm and the force knocked the guy down, like someone just shoved him to the ground. It didn’t hurt him, but the look in his eye as the ref was counting was priceless. He was scared shitless and knew he was getting knocked out. I think you’re looking at Tyson as a whole while I’m talking about the Mike Tyson’s PunchOut era Tyson. If D’amato had maybe reigned him in a little and King had never gotten his claws into him I’m convincd we’d be talking about the most dominant heavyweight of all-time. But that’s obviously just my take. My pop was a huge Dempsey fan. My favorite story is when he cracked that did in the face so hard that his planted ankle broke from the torque.[/quote]
Foreman didn’t have Tyson’s speed, but in his prime he definitely hit as hard, maybe harder. That would have been a slug fest for the ages. Really is too bad that Tyson split with D’amato though, because I agree that his career probably would have gone a different route.
Also gotta agree with kmc, Karelin was probably the most dominant combat sports champion of all time.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
tassietaekwon wrote:
drewh wrote:
Wrestling is not fighting imo close but not quite
No sport is really fighting.
That’s true. How would one of these guys react if someone drove his fingers into their eyes or tried to bite a vein (Kina Mutai-style)?
[/quote]
How would the likes of Ali, Marciano and Fedor react? Probably by avoiding it and killing the assailant. You don’t get to be a world champion without having killer instinct.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
drewh wrote:
Foreman would have destroyedd Tyson, Tyson even admitted Ali wold have beat him.
I was going to mention Foreman.
Tyson was incredibly explosive and hit like a freight train, but he also heavily on his aggressive style and (as you can see by his fight with Douglas) didn’t do too well when his opponent wasn’t afraid of his power and kept coming at him.
If you watch the fight between Foreman and Frazier you’ll see just how powerful Foreman was. Keep in mind that Frazier was coming off a pretty impressive win against Ali in that fight and everyone thought that he would beat or at least take Foreman the distance. Foreman absolutely destroyed him.
I would have loved to see a fight between a prime Tyson and a prime Ali though. Or a prime Marciano and a prime Ali. Those would be some awesome fights.
Douglas beat a Tyson who’d lost his mentor and wasn’t really training. No one will ever know how great Tyson could’ve been, but I feel like he woul’ve been the best. Didn’t mean for that to take away from what Buster did.
Floyd Patterson called Tyson perfectly- a great fighter who was going to get hit a lot when he slowed down.
Ali would have not only gotten inside and twisted up Tyson’s head so bad that he wouldn’t have known which side was up. And after that, the man who took Joe Frazier’s best punches for 36 rounds and George Foreman’s best for 8 rounds would have utterly demolished Tyson as soon as he tired out.
Frazier’s hook could break cement- and that couldn’t knock Ali out. And there’s no way that Ali would have been outpointed by Tyson.
Ali would have knocked him out somewhere around the eighth or ninth with a hard right hand uppercut.
Now Frazier- he fought the same as Tyson. Bobbing and weaving, good footwork, stormed inside to land hard punches. Tyson threw punches in bunches, and that could have hurt Joe- but knocking Joe out was damn near impossible. He would have bobbed and weaved and landed that big left hook a couple times that would have shook Tyson badly, maybe stopped him from throwing so many punches. After that, maybe around the ninth or tenth, Tyson would KO’d on a big left.
Dempsey… well, the newspapers once called him “187 lbs. of unbridled violence.” The man was the most brutal heavyweight to step in the ring- power in both hands, and he invented that bobbing and weaving style that he learned in the bars. Same result, but much quicker- the man who shattered Jess Willards face would do the same to Tyson. The only one who could fluster Dempsey- would have been Ali, because he would have fought like Gene Tunney did and outboxed him.
And Ali’s foil? Joe Frazier.
Tyson, with his heart of a pup and his tendency to slow down and give up, would have no chance in there with those legends who fought with every ounce of their being and proved, over and over, that they’d leave their lives in the ring if necessary.
It’s kind of like saying that “These following people are all War Leaders: Roosevelt, Churchill, George W. Bush.”
Well guys, one of these things is not like the other.
Look man, I respect Frazier and Ali, and I’m from Houston so you know I got love for Big George, but I think you’re off on some of these. Tyson was basiclly a bigger, stonger faster Frazier. I know Frazier hit hard but I’m not sure if anyone in the history of the sport has hit with the speed and power of a young Tyson. Don’t remember who it was [Burbick maybe?] where they were inside trading and Tyson landed a left hook with the guys guard up. He didn’t hit him in the head, he hit him in the forearm and the force knocked the guy down, like someone just shoved him to the ground. It didn’t hurt him, but the look in his eye as the ref was counting was priceless. He was scared shitless and knew he was getting knocked out. I think you’re looking at Tyson as a whole while I’m talking about the Mike Tyson’s PunchOut era Tyson. If D’amato had maybe reigned him in a little and King had never gotten his claws into him I’m convincd we’d be talking about the most dominant heavyweight of all-time. But that’s obviously just my take. My pop was a huge Dempsey fan. My favorite story is when he cracked that did in the face so hard that his planted ankle broke from the torque.
Foreman didn’t have Tyson’s speed, but in his prime he definitely hit as hard, maybe harder. That would have been a slug fest for the ages. Really is too bad that Tyson split with D’amato though, because I agree that his career probably would have gone a different route.
Also gotta agree with kmc, Karelin was probably the most dominant combat sports champion of all time.[/quote]
Big George definitely hit hard, but I’m not sure he hit as hard as Tyson. Foreman was just so big. His punches were almost like pushes, but just the size and power behind them made them devastating. Tyson was so explosive. Every time he landed a bomb it sounded like someone shot a brick out of a potato gun.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
tassietaekwon wrote:
drewh wrote:
Wrestling is not fighting imo close but not quite
No sport is really fighting.
That’s true. How would one of these guys react if someone drove his fingers into their eyes or tried to bite a vein (Kina Mutai-style)?
[/quote]
Will you please shut the fuck up?
[quote]nutcase wrote:
Tyson in his prime was untouchable. Some are saying Ali would beat tyson?..can you imagine ali standing on the ropes talking tysons punches for 8 rounds the way he did agaist foreman? i dont think so. Tyson is a new breed of heavyweight- explosive, powerful and accurate. Ali would land few jabs 1st round …rest is history
[/quote]
Jesus Christ fellas- yea, the young Tyson was tough, but for the most part he fought shit fighters and never went past the fifth round.
Ali GUARANTEED would have taken him past the fifth, and had the PERFECT tools to dominate Tyson- great footwork, incredible ring generalship, and one of the best jabs in the game.
I hate this hero worship that goes on for a fighter who, when he faced the top competition, honestly got the shit knocked out of him. Yes, he beat Michael Spinks. Other than that, he fought a 149 year old Larry Holmes.
Many of the other guys, from the highlight reels, were crap fighters. Tyson could have been the greatest, yes- but he had no fucking brains and a weak heart. Any of the great heavyweights would have beaten him- Ali especially.
People are acting like prime Ali didn’t lose fights. He did, he is considered great because he was able to overcome his losses, even the ones to the government. So Ali was beatable, and prime tyson could beat him. Now if boxing was truly an individual sport I would say no, but with D coaching Tyson was the ultimate robot.
He was clueless without D and therefore listened to every word he said whether he was scared, or not. That made him a great fighter in the ring. Dempsy was a great fighter, but pit against tyson a ripped 20 lbs heavier and just as fast if not faster with the bob and weave, tyson would have knocked his head off.
Fighters that could beat tyson did not come around until we started having much heavier heavy weights, and after tyson took his first loss which was already after his mental downfall.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
People are acting like prime Ali didn’t lose fights. He did, he is considered great because he was able to overcome his losses, even the ones to the government. So Ali was beatable, and prime tyson could beat him. Now if boxing was truly an individual sport I would say no, but with D coaching Tyson was the ultimate robot.
He was clueless without D and therefore listened to every word he said whether he was scared, or not. That made him a great fighter in the ring. Dempsy was a great fighter, but pit against tyson a ripped 20 lbs heavier and just as fast if not faster with the bob and weave, tyson would have knocked his head off.
Fighters that could beat tyson did not come around until we started having much heavier heavy weights, and after tyson took his first loss which was already after his mental downfall.[/quote]
Bullshit. Evander beat Tyson at weights of 222 and 218- same size as Tyson. When a fighter is completely shot by 29 (and didn’t even fight for four of them), he does not get to be considered an ATG in my book.
Him being a head case is exactly what kept him from greatness. And Ali would have abused him for weeks leading up to the fight to the point where Tyson would have been a basket case. The fight would have been over before he even got in the ring. Tyson may have had the physical ability to beat Ali, but he didn’t have the mental fortitude no matter who was in his corner. And in a fighter, you can’t seperate those two.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
People are acting like prime Ali didn’t lose fights. He did, he is considered great because he was able to overcome his losses, even the ones to the government. So Ali was beatable, and prime tyson could beat him. Now if boxing was truly an individual sport I would say no, but with D coaching Tyson was the ultimate robot.
He was clueless without D and therefore listened to every word he said whether he was scared, or not. That made him a great fighter in the ring. Dempsy was a great fighter, but pit against tyson a ripped 20 lbs heavier and just as fast if not faster with the bob and weave, tyson would have knocked his head off.
Fighters that could beat tyson did not come around until we started having much heavier heavy weights, and after tyson took his first loss which was already after his mental downfall.[/quote]
I agree with your sentiment that Tyson was great fighter under Gus, but the difference between him and Ali was that Ali fought, and mostly beat, much better competition (hell, remember that Foreman became heavyweight champ at the age of what, 200?). Like Irish said, Tyson never competed against the caliber of fighter as a Frazier or Foreman, and when he did he didn’t do as well or looked nearly as impressive.
Both AirTruth and Irish make great points. I tend to side with Truth here, but agree that Ali woulda wreaked havoc on Tysons psyche. The only way he woulda survived that is if D’amato was there to put the ear muffs on.
The best is yet to come. A boxer absolutely cannot be considered as a “best fighter” candidate as their game is not complete, and the UFC is still a virgin. But the best as of yet is Silva, bar-none. I mean he fights at 185 for most of his career and you have to admit he’d be pretty damn competitive with Fedor, so as a question of P4P, you’ve gotta give it to Silva.