Good Bye Squats. Hello Leg Press.

Training Bodybuilding
101

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

That’s good advice.

Also, learn to front squat without holding on to the bar at all, the bar simply rests behind your delts and against your neck, with your arms straight out in front of you, like this:

This is great for reinforcing form prompts, along with boosting confidence. [/quote]

And there you go kiddies, exactly what I was suggesting people do without holding the bar, you’ll find the right bar position and balance soon enough else it rolls off!! I would suggest for most that simply using the bar and not loading it with a truckload of weight would be a good first port of call to get your form right.

And assuming thats you H4M, I would have to say of all your video lifts I’ve watched THAT is the most impressive lift I’ve seen of you!!! Awesome!!!

102

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

That’s good advice.

Also, learn to front squat without holding on to the bar at all, the bar simply rests behind your delts and against your neck, with your arms straight out in front of you, like this:

This is great for reinforcing form prompts, along with boosting confidence. [/quote]

And there you go kiddies, exactly what I was suggesting people do without holding the bar, you’ll find the right bar position and balance soon enough else it rolls off!! I would suggest for most that simply using the bar and not loading it with a truckload of weight would be a good first port of call to get your form right.

And assuming thats you H4M, I would have to say of all your video lifts I’ve watched THAT is the most impressive lift I’ve seen of you!!! Awesome!!! [/quote]

Nah, its me before I gained weight, changed my hair color, joined the military, got tattoos et al.

103

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]hurg53 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I use a squat machine. i don’t do barbell squats. I also don’t deadlift. You have to find what works for you…and by that I mean actually finding what works and not avoiding movements just because you aren’t good at them or are lazy.

If my back was’t growing I would probably try deadlifts. If my legs were making no progress, I would probably add squats back in.[/quote]

lol u must not like doing manly exercises. whats the point in looking big if ur not strong, False Advertising. tmuscle u better not delete this post i swear to god[/quote]

?? Who said I’m not strong? That squat machine is done with 11 plates on each side for my last set.

I would LOVE to see someone weak move that shit.

What bullshit has gotten into some of your heads that you think not doing a deadlift means you don’t train heavy?

Who the hell builds a big back without it being strong?[/quote]

He’s the fat kid that thought he got gout from eating too much beef and not from the 80lbs of lard he’s carrying.

He is trolling. [/quote]

Damn, how did I miss that gem of a thread?

104

[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

That’s good advice.

Also, learn to front squat without holding on to the bar at all, the bar simply rests behind your delts and against your neck, with your arms straight out in front of you, like this:

This is great for reinforcing form prompts, along with boosting confidence. [/quote]

And there you go kiddies, exactly what I was suggesting people do without holding the bar, you’ll find the right bar position and balance soon enough else it rolls off!! I would suggest for most that simply using the bar and not loading it with a truckload of weight would be a good first port of call to get your form right.

And assuming thats you H4M, I would have to say of all your video lifts I’ve watched THAT is the most impressive lift I’ve seen of you!!! Awesome!!! [/quote]

Nah, its me before I gained weight, changed my hair color, joined the military, front squatted a lot, got tattoos et al.[/quote]

Fixed that for ya buddy :wink:

Yeah GG, that’s me…I’ve found it’s much easier to just upload all my stuff to youtube.

105

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

That’s good advice.

Also, learn to front squat without holding on to the bar at all, the bar simply rests behind your delts and against your neck, with your arms straight out in front of you, like this:

This is great for reinforcing form prompts, along with boosting confidence. [/quote]

And there you go kiddies, exactly what I was suggesting people do without holding the bar, you’ll find the right bar position and balance soon enough else it rolls off!! I would suggest for most that simply using the bar and not loading it with a truckload of weight would be a good first port of call to get your form right.

And assuming thats you H4M, I would have to say of all your video lifts I’ve watched THAT is the most impressive lift I’ve seen of you!!! Awesome!!! [/quote]

Nah, its me before I gained weight, changed my hair color, joined the military, front squatted a lot, got tattoos et al.[/quote]

I wish I could back squat like you buddy ;(

Yeah GG, that’s me…I’ve found it’s much easier to just upload all my stuff to youtube. [/quote]

DOUBLE FIXED!

106

Goodbye balls… Helllooooo tampons!!!

107

[quote]carlthescorp wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I use a squat machine. i don’t do barbell squats. I also don’t deadlift. You have to find what works for you…and by that I mean actually finding what works and not avoiding movements just because you aren’t good at them or are lazy.

If my back was’t growing I would probably try deadlifts. If my legs were making no progress, I would probably add squats back in.[/quote]

Is the squat machine you use similar to a hack squat machine? I thought you might have been talking about a smith machine, but I think it’s just something I personally haven’t come across. Did you just give up bb squats because you were afraid of going too heavy?

[/quote]

This is the machine I use. The one at my gym can hold 11 plates a side. I quit doing the barbell squat because it didn’t feel right and back pain was common after going heavier than 4 plates a side for me. I’m not vacant enough to ignore my own body which may be why I have been able to avoid a major injury so far despite the weight I use.

I gave up barbell squats because I can do more reps with more weight on something like this than I can using a bar.

The whole point of all of this is progress…and what you will often find is the ones screaming how bad ass they are for doing a free weight movement over a machine often ignore that they may not be making optimal progress.

the Smith machine doesn’t come close to something like this and this isn’t a hack squat.

108

[quote]Professor X wrote:
the Smith machine doesn’t come close to something like this and this isn’t a hack squat.[/quote]

I’ve seen it been called a hack squat machine before - but it’s not achieving a hack squat is it? I always thought a hack squat was done with a barbell. In any case not to get into too much specifics over a machine name but I’ve used that machine at the gym before and I’m no where near 11 plates a side, barely half that.

109

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
the Smith machine doesn’t come close to something like this and this isn’t a hack squat.[/quote]

I’ve seen it been called a hack squat machine before - but it’s not achieving a hack squat is it? I always thought a hack squat was done with a barbell. In any case not to get into too much specifics over a machine name but I’ve used that machine at the gym before and I’m no where near 11 plates a side, barely half that.[/quote]

A hack squat is generally on a rail. This is called a Freemotion Squat machine which doesn’t lock you into that one groove the same way. While it takes away the need for stabilization, I haven’t felt much work my quads better because I can focus on that now instead of whether 500lbs will kill me before I set it down.

I think my legs are doing ok because of it.

I usually do leg extensions (squeeze the weight at the top), unilateral leg presses, and then these until I can’t.

That machine seems to attract a good deal of attention when I use it though.

110

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
the Smith machine doesn’t come close to something like this and this isn’t a hack squat.[/quote]

I’ve seen it been called a hack squat machine before - but it’s not achieving a hack squat is it? I always thought a hack squat was done with a barbell. In any case not to get into too much specifics over a machine name but I’ve used that machine at the gym before and I’m no where near 11 plates a side, barely half that.[/quote]

A hack squat is generally on a rail. This is called a Freemotion Squat machine which doesn’t lock you into that one groove the same way. While it takes away the need for stabilization, I haven’t felt much work my quads better because I can focus on that now instead of whether 500lbs will kill me before I set it down.

I think my legs are doing ok because of it.

I usually do leg extensions (squeeze the weight at the top), unilateral leg presses, and then these until I can’t.

That machine seems to attract a good deal of attention when I use it though. [/quote]

I’m curious Professor, have you ever given front squats a try? It seems like it might be a good substitute if you had lower back concerns.

111

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
the Smith machine doesn’t come close to something like this and this isn’t a hack squat.[/quote]

I’ve seen it been called a hack squat machine before - but it’s not achieving a hack squat is it? I always thought a hack squat was done with a barbell. In any case not to get into too much specifics over a machine name but I’ve used that machine at the gym before and I’m no where near 11 plates a side, barely half that.[/quote]

A hack squat is generally on a rail. This is called a Freemotion Squat machine which doesn’t lock you into that one groove the same way. While it takes away the need for stabilization, I haven’t felt much work my quads better because I can focus on that now instead of whether 500lbs will kill me before I set it down.

I think my legs are doing ok because of it.

I usually do leg extensions (squeeze the weight at the top), unilateral leg presses, and then these until I can’t.

That machine seems to attract a good deal of attention when I use it though. [/quote]

Question
Do you vary your feet stance (feet pointed out, feet pointed straight, feet higher up the curve)? And
Do you go slightly below parallel when you go down?

Somehow I think the sheer volume of plates WILL attract attention haha.

112

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
the Smith machine doesn’t come close to something like this and this isn’t a hack squat.[/quote]

I’ve seen it been called a hack squat machine before - but it’s not achieving a hack squat is it? I always thought a hack squat was done with a barbell. In any case not to get into too much specifics over a machine name but I’ve used that machine at the gym before and I’m no where near 11 plates a side, barely half that.[/quote]

A hack squat is generally on a rail. This is called a Freemotion Squat machine which doesn’t lock you into that one groove the same way. While it takes away the need for stabilization, I haven’t felt much work my quads better because I can focus on that now instead of whether 500lbs will kill me before I set it down.

I think my legs are doing ok because of it.

I usually do leg extensions (squeeze the weight at the top), unilateral leg presses, and then these until I can’t.

That machine seems to attract a good deal of attention when I use it though. [/quote]

Question
Do you vary your feet stance (feet pointed out, feet pointed straight, feet higher up the curve)? And
Do you go slightly below parallel when you go down?

Somehow I think the sheer volume of plates WILL attract attention haha.[/quote]

I go below parallel…which may be why people watch. I remove that safety pin on the back that controls how low you can go and try to get down as deep as I can without feeling any knee pain.

As far as feet stances, no, I haven’t really changed that much. I find the space that feels right and stick with it. My feet are usually closer to the top and I have noticed that shorter guys seem to be the complete opposite.

113

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

I’m curious Professor, have you ever given front squats a try? It seems like it might be a good substitute if you had lower back concerns.[/quote]

They feel awkward to me so no, I don’t do them.

Things I do need to try if I plan on actually competing:
walking lunges
straight leg deadlifts for hamstrings
maybe low weight barbell squats like Shawn Ray used to do.

114

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I usually do leg extensions (squeeze the weight at the top), unilateral leg presses, and then these until I can’t.

[/quote]

I love single leg leg-presses, usually followed up by knee extensions (leaning forward at the trunk a bit to stop me flexing the hip, great feeling down in VM and VL).

115

Just as a note, cause I miss them cause my new gym has shit all decent boxes, but I love weighted step ups (DB preferably) for the ass; easy on the back, easy on the knees, bitchin on the gluts.

Personally, I don’t like walking lunges. Its about the only movement that makes my knees feel like when they did when I screwed them up playing heaps of tennis as a kid. No Ronnie in the carpark lunging for me :frowning:

116

I recently started to squat on a regular basis. My biggest mistake was that I refrained from doing direct leg work for so long, because my legs had always been very muscular (to the point where they still outshine my upper body).

Once I’d started to add back squats, I’ve begun to fill out some more in my upper body. Not so much in the leg department, though. Strange, but still fine in my book. My body is built for squats: I’ve gone from 200 lbs for reps to 418 lbs for reps in a matter of 9 weeks. I suck ass at deadlifts, though. Strength-wise and injury-wise.

And leg presses aggravate my lower back :frowning:

The only exercise I can think of that allows me to stimulate my quads in a proper way are leg extensions as ProX has described. I’m much more interested in getting my posterior chain ON PAR with my quads, though.

Bottom line: back squats and leg extensions are where it’s at for me, leg presses are a no-go. Unfortunately, since they provide a perfect setup for sending your mind into your legs and not having to pay much attention to getting the form right while still moving heavy-ass weights.

117

all trolling aside i love squat and the leg press. leg press great assistance and really gets my legs torched after squat.

118

[quote]FattyFat wrote:
I recently started to squat on a regular basis. My biggest mistake was that I refrained from doing direct leg work for so long, because my legs had always been very muscular (to the point where they still outshine my upper body).

Once I’d started to add back squats, I’ve begun to fill out some more in my upper body. Not so much in the leg department, though. Strange, but still fine in my book. My body is built for squats: I’ve gone from 200 lbs for reps to 418 lbs for reps in a matter of 9 weeks. I suck ass at deadlifts, though. Strength-wise and injury-wise.

And leg presses aggravate my lower back :frowning:

The only exercise I can think of that allows me to stimulate my quads in a proper way are leg extensions as ProX has described. I’m much more interested in getting my posterior chain ON PAR with my quads, though.

Bottom line: back squats and leg extensions are where it’s at for me, leg presses are a no-go. Unfortunately, since they provide a perfect setup for sending your mind into your legs and not having to pay much attention to getting the form right while still moving heavy-ass weights.

[/quote]

FF, just wondering when you mentioned your body is built for squats, can you elaborate on that? Purely height related or flexibility or more than that?
What else are you doing for the posterior chain if you are not doing/prefer not to do deadlifts? (deadlift variations, leg curls etc)?

Thanks.

119

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]FattyFat wrote:
I recently started to squat on a regular basis. My biggest mistake was that I refrained from doing direct leg work for so long, because my legs had always been very muscular (to the point where they still outshine my upper body). Once I’d started to add back squats, I’ve begun to fill out some more in my upper body. Not so much in the leg department, though. Strange, but still fine in my book. My body is built for squats: I’ve gone from 200 lbs for reps to 418 lbs for reps in a matter of 9 weeks. I suck ass at deadlifts, though. Strength-wise and injury-wise.

And leg presses aggravate my lower back :frowning:

The only exercise I can think of that allows me to stimulate my quads in a proper way are leg extensions as ProX has described. I’m much more interested in getting my posterior chain ON PAR with my quads, though.

Bottom line: back squats and leg extensions are where it’s at for me, leg presses are a no-go. Unfortunately, since they provide a perfect setup for sending your mind into your legs and not having to pay much attention to getting the form right while still moving heavy-ass weights.

[/quote]

FF, just wondering when you mentioned your body is built for squats, can you elaborate on that? Purely height related or flexibility or more than that?
What else are you doing for the posterior chain if you are not doing/prefer not to do deadlifts? (deadlift variations, leg curls etc)?

Thanks.[/quote]

Short answer:
-I’m rather short, 170 cm (that must be something about 5’6, I guess)
-bad flexibility, leg curls took care of it
-my legs have always been very big without any direct training (see my T-Cell Alpha thread: I’m not exaggerating)
-I love deadlifts, but I’m going to keep away from them (read long answer for the reasons why)

Long answer:
I’m no expert at biomechanics, but let me put it this way:
all it took me to get ready for squatting away 3x a week was to do 3 months of leg curling to start fixing my posterior chain issues. Since then, I have had no problems back squatting deeply, staying in the hole and getting out of it, all the while keeping my knees behind my toes (from a sideways perspective). Actually: the higher the load on my back, the easier it is to get into and out of the hole (though the getting out part is more gruesome, lol). And my legs can take a helluva beating.
The first time I took up back squats on a regular basis was as part of a tabata protocol: I progressed pretty fast. Right now, on a good day I can take 300 lbs and do at least 30 consecutive reps (although with a lot of breathing in between the last ~ 5 reps). Besides, the back squat is the one exercise I can train quite frequently using heavy loads without injuring myself. All this with a herniated disc.
Hence I guesstimate that I’m built for back squats.

Take the deadlift, for contrasting purposes: it took only 2 176 lbs frame dumbbells to herniate a disc. And only 308 lbs to tear my SC joint.

120

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]krazykoukides wrote:

[quote]krsoneeeee wrote:
leg extension might be good for bodybuilding, esp for bringing up the VM… but functionally they’re pretty useless (if you participate in sport) - Mainly because they train a motor pattern that you’d never use and they put a shear force across the knee which isn’t very healthy…just my 2 cents.[/quote]

I think that’s pretty misleading. If you make your quadriceps stronger - you will be able to run faster. My best friend has an elite 100m and he can do leg extensions all day with 250lbs.

Those whole bodybuilding vs. functional arguments are bullshit.[/quote]

Agreed. It holds no water and personal trainers get clients by spreading this bullshit.

The belief that a stronger bigger muscle can somehow ONLY perform the way it was trained makes no logical sense.

It implies that squatting or leg extensions won’t help you push a truck down the street. Using this logic, you could only push a truck if you trained doing walking lunges.[/quote]

Don’t tell me what i was implying, because you’re an idiot - I said for a sporting person(ie footballer) training your quads with isolate training is stupid, not only because it has limited functional cross over(ie waste of your time), but it doesnt protect any of your joints in movements such as running and cutting. I didnt say they were useless, just that there are better ways to do it. open your minds and stop jumping on people who have a different, and probably more informed opinion than your own.

[/quote]
all you showed here was that a guy with an elite 100m has strong legs, not that the leg extension is a good machine for sprinters and other athletes. There is a reason that sprinters squat not leg press/extension. It is because after years of trial and error from thousands of coaches, the athletic communtity (the intelligent members anyways) has realized what the best exercises for sport transfer are, which is what they use. Use what works.