[quote]pushmepullme wrote:
…
[/quote]
Funny how most of those recommending Westside and hanging all over Louie’s nuts fall into that “chaff” category.
I made shit progress on westside as a beginner/intermediate. I’m making retardedly fast gains on 5/3/1. I lift rediculously intensely. My lack of progress wasn’t based on my lack of effort. It was based on poor programming for my level. I’m consistently adding 10 pounds to my squat and dead, and sometimes an extra rep on my top set for the cycle, every cycle. I’m going for 405/275/495 in the very near future. I had some of the fancy tools and stuff for me to use, AND I was using a Dave Tate written program for someone around my level. It wasn’t what I needed. I needed consistant progression on consistant lifts. I needed to build muscle, and gain coordination in my lifts. WS is not only for people who don’t know what they are talking about (looking at you, dankid), it’s also not the greatest for raw lifters, new ones even more. Another thing is to avoid missing lifts. Missing lifts is god aweful for a beginner. And that’s going to happen a lot more maxing 2x a week with strange movements, then in a consistant, typical powerlifting program.
You don’t even have to do 5/3/1. A basic pull/bench/squat/CG bench, arms+back, or squat/press/pull Split will do you fine. Consistant progression on consistant lifts at your point in training is the best way to go.
It’s a shame it always ends up as an fight despite good intentions. And now to throw my opinion into the mix and make it all worse!
AlisaV, a few people have said to get to a meet in your area. It’s a good idea; you’ll meet lifters in your area and generally powerlifters are a lot friendlier and less argumentative in real life than on the internet.
After seeing how you lift, they’ll have a better idea about what you need to do than we do, and they should be more than willing to help and point you in the right direction. Women are sadly underrepresented in our sport, so they are normally greeted with open arms when they turn up and ask for help.
As for how you should train, I’ll weigh in despite being underqualified;
Really I like any one of the 5/3/1 templates or Sheiko. The main benefit of them are they are simple, and you know that you are going to improve and get stronger. It’s difficult to say that about other training methods unless you have a coach.
Prescribed reps, sets and percentages take a lot of the guesswork out of what to do. Not having to try to figure out a lot of things on your own is a good thing when you’re starting out.
There’s a few things I don’t like about Sheiko, but it is easier to adapt to equipped training than 5/3/1, and very regimented.
5/3/1 will probably have you out of the gym faster and make you feel like you’re working harder at the big lifts, and is more flexible in what you can after.
Just from this, I feel 5/3/1 is a better choice starting out, as you have a bit more scope for strength and muscle increase than Sheiko.
It comes at the expense of doing less competition lifts, so what you lose is the technique improvement you get from doing billions of sets. Also, if you get into serious equipment, you’ll have to change a few things if you’re training 5/3/1. Nonetheless, I think it’s good to get a good base so that you are strong overall and you don’t have anything holding you back once you start pushing and pulling serious weight. If you’re training around people who aren’t powerlifters, odds are you aren’t going to detailed advice that will make sure you do the lifts perfectly anyhow.
After you’ve spent a bit of time training however you choose to train, you’ll have a lot better idea about what to do and what you want to do than now, and hopefully a few people you can talk to to guide you.
Best of luck!
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Buckeye – as I understand there is a PL club. They’re quite a bit better than me, but I’ll still try to get in touch with them; worst case scenario, they’ll say “No, you can’t train with us.” If they are willing, then I have my solution, and I’ll take their advice.
[/quote]
Why would any group of guys turn down a chance to show off their lifting and vast knowledge thereof to a member of the opposite gender? If the internet is any kind of gauge…
facepalms at the faggotry
[quote]dankid wrote:
Id go westside, only because it works and its fun.
But I would also make some changes, depending on your level.
1)bench/squat 2-4 times per week
2)deadlift 1-3 times per week
3)FOLLOW THE WESTSIDE PRINCIPLES
4)Add more assisstance exercises (especially if you need more muscle)
Anyone that says they didn’t make gains on a certain program ESPECIALLY WESTSIDE simply didn’t do it right, or possibly had some sort of physical dissabilities. The template/guidelines work. You lift heavy weights, focus on your weaknesses and get stronger. There is a very, very small difference between westside and 5/3/1 or really most strength programs for that matter.
So to the OP. It doesn’t really matter which program you pick, as long as you figure out how to modify it and make it work for you. Good luck[/quote]
I think you hit the nail on the head about what’s the best thing about a westside style training approach- it’s fun. The best, state-of-the-art periodization plan won’t work if you are bored with training and you just show up and go through the motions. For most people that get into this thing, going heavy is something motivates and inspires. What other trainign approach allows you to take a PR every damn week? I think any lifter needs to play around with variables such as ME lift choices, speed work vs. rep work, etc. to make the system optimal. But it’s a good framework for the most part.
As for whether it will work- of course it works for beginners. That’s the beauty of being a novice lifter. If you lift heavy, get a enough volume in, and eat, you’ll get stronger. You almost don’t need a system. It’s when you’ve been doing this shit for a while that it takes an 16 week master plan to get a measly 5 lb PR.
[quote]dankid wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
Two things:
Dankid, so how do Louie’s balls taste?
Alisa, did you check to see if your college has a PL club or anything like that? When I decided I was interested in learning more about the sport these were the first actual people I talked to. If something like that is an option, I’d definitely go that route. It’s really cheap, and the guys are usually willing to help, especially when a girl is interested in powerlifting.
They taste just fine. If you ever get tired of the twat you should give em a try.[/quote]
Still bitter that I had no interest in your stupid “fat 300lb powerlifter vs 150 pound gymnast” debate, I see.
[quote]Back on track here though. OP, the point I was trying to get at is that it doens’t really matter what program your on, as long as you follow a good set of guidelines. Westside and 5/3/1 are not that different really, and either one can give you really good or really poor results. Oh and westside does not NEED chains and bands at all. People that think westside is all about chains and bands obviously are misunderstanding the methods.
And as for comments of westside not being for females, this is just plain wrong. My gf is a beginner, and is doing the exact same program as me, and is making great progress using the westside methods. The only reason I could see recommending something like 5/3/1 over westside is that its a little bit easier to understand and more organized. To understand westside you’ve gotta do some reading and quite a bit of trial and error in the gym. But once you get things going, it is REALLY fun. I haven’t done 5/3/1, but will some time soon, so I dont have anything to compare it to though.[/quote]
I didn’t see anyone say that westside wasn’t for females. I know a number of female powerlifters that are in the top of their weight classes and train either at westside or have a program set up similar to westside’s. These women weigh anywhere between 114 and 165 and bench 200+ (just like you), and some have squatted in the mid 500s in competition. They have also been training at a competitive level for years, unlike myself and some of the other women that I know that had little success with a westside template.
[quote]Lastly, if you do 5/3/1 you’ll probably need to make some modifications. You’ll likely be able to work out more than 3 days a week, and will need some more exercises and more volume overall. Other than that, you cant go wrong with any good program. The best thing right now, is to just get started on something and go for it. If you have concerns, start a log and get people’s opinions on what you are doing. If you are progressing in your lifts, then you cant really complain and you know you are on the right track.
Good luck![/quote]
Alisa will likely be able to train more than 3 days a week, huh? Well that’s perfect because 5/3/1 has 4 workouts a week. It sounds to me like you don’t even know enough about 5/3/1 to be making claims about why another program is a better choice.
And as for modifications, I’ve seen people make great progress with the program and then decided that since they weren’t feeling beat up and their progress was going well, they upped frequency, volume, etc and they got burnt out and all their old aches and pains reappeared.
Last time I was at Elite, I talked to Jim about the program a little bit. The one thing that I remember him saying was that if your feeling beat up and run down, you aren’t doing it right. So, pick accessory work that is best for you, but modify at your own risk.
And finally: Alisa, don’t be afraid to talk to the PL club guys. I made that mistake and put off meeting or contacting them for weeks all for nothing. They turned out to be a bunch of nice guys that knew a lot about the sport and had some damn good numbers. And the only membership requirements they had were that you had to pay your $20 club fee, and had to be serious about lifting.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
facepalms at the faggotry[/quote]
really dude? I lol’d like 4 times in this thread
Actually, im pretty sure 5/3/1 is a 4-day split with 3-days per week.
[quote]dankid wrote:
Actually, im pretty sure 5/3/1 is a 4-day split with 3-days per week. [/quote]
Actually, you need to stop fucking posting. You are the cancer that is killing T-Nation.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
dankid wrote:
Actually, im pretty sure 5/3/1 is a 4-day split with 3-days per week.
Actually, you need to stop fucking posting. You are the cancer that is killing T-Nation.[/quote]
So actually im right, but you “more knowledgeable” people like to attack someones character when you know you are wrong. Go Go Fail!
Hey dankid, Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
It is a 4 day split run over 4 days a week. You can run it 3 days a week but thats only if recovery is an issue. Most programs will work yes but you yourself (dankid) have stated that westside took more reading around and tweaking to make it work for you (though apparently you could do with reading around more on 5/3/1 before commenting).
[quote]dankid wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
dankid wrote:
Actually, im pretty sure 5/3/1 is a 4-day split with 3-days per week.
Actually, you need to stop fucking posting. You are the cancer that is killing T-Nation.
So actually im right, but you “more knowledgeable” people like to attack someones character when you know you are wrong. Go Go Fail![/quote]
5/3/1 is a four day split that can be done for three or four days a week. The majority of people do it four days a week.
Well, this thread went awry quick.
Ok, my mistake guys. I haven’t purchased the program. The write-ups ive seen on elitefts have shown it as 3-day.
Again, my mistake.
I probably will purchase 5/3/1 after doing westside for a bit longer. Jim wendler sold me in the “origins of 5/3/1” article, and for <$30 you cant really go wrong.
But I have another consideration about westside and why I have taken such a liking to it. If you really enjoy working out, and have a good amount of time to do so, westside is a great choice. Im currently training 7 days a week, 7 sessions. And eventually i’ll probably be doing 9-12 sessions a week. So if you like to work out more often, its something to consider.
This is a lot of stupid bitching and I hate you all.
If you are a beginner, DO NOT start off on west side, I have been lifting for almost 8 years, and I have just recently started doing westside for a month. I have seen sick fucking gains with it, very quickly, but, I have a 7 year base of muscle for that to come from, so west side fits me just fine. I would also like to add I am a raw lifter.
Anyway, for new PL’ers, I would suggest p90x, I think the PT dankid would agree.
[quote]dankid wrote:
Ok, my mistake guys. I haven’t purchased the program. The write-ups ive seen on elitefts have shown it as 3-day.
Again, my mistake.
I probably will purchase 5/3/1 after doing westside for a bit longer. Jim wendler sold me in the “origins of 5/3/1” article, and for <$30 you cant really go wrong.
But I have another consideration about westside and why I have taken such a liking to it. If you really enjoy working out, and have a good amount of time to do so, westside is a great choice. Im currently training 7 days a week, 7 sessions. And eventually i’ll probably be doing 9-12 sessions a week. So if you like to work out more often, its something to consider.[/quote]
WTF are you talking about, 9-12 sessions a week running westside? WTF??
[quote]Jacked Diesel wrote:
This is a lot of stupid bitching and I hate you all.
If you are a beginner, DO NOT start off on west side, I have been lifting for almost 8 years, and I have just recently started doing westside for a month. I have seen sick fucking gains with it, very quickly, but, I have a 7 year base of muscle for that to come from, so west side fits me just fine. I would also like to add I am a raw lifter.
Anyway, for new PL’ers, I would suggest p90x, I think the PT dankid would agree.[/quote]
Care to talk about prefered ME movements, and what your DE cycles look like as a raw lifter?
[quote]Jacked Diesel wrote:
This is a lot of stupid bitching and I hate you all.
If you are a beginner, DO NOT start off on west side, I have been lifting for almost 8 years, and I have just recently started doing westside for a month. I have seen sick fucking gains with it, very quickly, but, I have a 7 year base of muscle for that to come from, so west side fits me just fine. I would also like to add I am a raw lifter.
Anyway, for new PL’ers, I would suggest p90x, I think the PT dankid would agree.[/quote]
You are an idiot, and no I wouldn’t agree. I have quite a few years experience, but still consider myself on the low intermediate end, and my GF is pretty much a beginner. And we are both making gains every time we max out on anything. No nagging joint problems, or overtraining. You just gotta be a little smart with your training. If you are a complete idiot, then ya, westside wont work well for you.
Oh and ya, I did say 9-12 workouts a week is what i’ll be building up to. Do some more reading on “extra workouts”
[quote]dankid wrote:
Jacked Diesel wrote:
This is a lot of stupid bitching and I hate you all.
If you are a beginner, DO NOT start off on west side, I have been lifting for almost 8 years, and I have just recently started doing westside for a month. I have seen sick fucking gains with it, very quickly, but, I have a 7 year base of muscle for that to come from, so west side fits me just fine. I would also like to add I am a raw lifter.
Anyway, for new PL’ers, I would suggest p90x, I think the PT dankid would agree.
You are an idiot, and no I wouldn’t agree. I have quite a few years experience, but still consider myself on the low intermediate end, and my GF is pretty much a beginner. And we are both making gains every time we max out on anything. No nagging joint problems, or overtraining. You just gotta be a little smart with your training. If you are a complete idiot, then ya, westside wont work well for you.
Oh and ya, I did say 9-12 workouts a week is what i’ll be building up to. Do some more reading on “extra workouts”[/quote]
Dankid, you are a fucking moron, I mean a complete moron, have fun striving to reach 300 max on bench you fucking pussy.