I think we’re trying to answer two different questions at once:
For instance, Kelvin Benjamin clearly has elite genetics to play a possession wide receiver (tall, good speed, enormous hands). Kelvin Benjamin is not an elite wide receiver relative to the NFL.
Jesus a 4x bodyweight dead isn’t elite?
I’m not saying youre wrong for the record, I just wanted to hear your POV on it since it is different than ours.
He is for sure a genetic freak for strength. He hasn’t totaled elite yet, but probably will if he sticks with it. It is so weird seeing a lankyish guy move so much weight. He is solid on all the lifts too. He has a 13 year old brother who is skinny as hell and can deadlift 405, and bench about 205.
He can’t total elite with an 800 pull? How bad are his squat and bench? I thought elite was around 1800 for a 220?
He has done low 400s on bench, and about 600 on squat (raw no sleeves or wraps). he hasn’t put these numbers together in a meet yet. Only competed maybe 3 times. I think his best total is mid 1700s. He dropped a bit over 800 in the last meet at lockout, bar ripped his hand pretty bad.
Lol at the black woman checking him out in the top picture.
Who wouldn’t check him out?
@mnben87 rofl a 800 dead as a junior isn’t elite
Maybe as a junior it is. I know 4 people who can do 800+, and one of those pulls 900+ (just did 881 for a triple on the axle bar). It just doesn’t seem like an elite thing to do, if I know 3 others who can do it. Maybe at his age and weight it qualifies? Not sure, I haven’t checked the numbers.
I thought “Elite” only applied to a total in Powerlifting, so one lift can’t qualfy you as elite.
So I looked up his last meet, in which I also competed. He was 23 (so still a junior), he weighed in at 95 kg (I would guess he is about 6’ tall), he went 272.5, 185, and 345 KG for a 802.5 kg total. He only got his opener on the deadlift, and shredded his hand with 367.5 kg on the second lift (dropped before getting the down command), and declined the third DL attempt.
I looked at the USPA charts, and it appears he did total elite, but not international elite (was close).
uh. an 800 lbs deadlift for someone who presumably would compete in the 198 class (that’s a very easy water cut) at ANY age would put him… like fucking top 10 of all time in the class. There are VERY few humans who have ever lived that could do that. So yea, that’s elite as fuck. lol. That’s unreal. And as a junior??? fuck me, lol.
and even if you remove weight classes from the equation, I’d still consider that elite. The number of humans who have ever deadlifted 800 is really not a large number at all. It’d be less than a few hundred, ever, at any bodyweight.
Trey? If so, I’ve competed with him, lol. He’s a cool dude. I would bet a significant sum of money he podiums at WSM in the next 3 years. He’s on the verge of being one of the strongest humans in history.
Not Trey. Do you know Brad Neitzel? Very good puller. His overhead lifts are not that great though.
Makes me feel better about my own lifting lol.
I must hang out with a lot of strong people. 800 DL doesn’t make you the strongest in my gym. The guy who I was talking about did not even win best lifter at that meet. Another guy from my gym out totaled him by 75KG @ 110 kg BW.
It seems going by meet numbers that the DL is the lift least impacted by BW. Some 200 lb dudes pull almost as much as the best SHW guys.
I don’t know him personally, but yes I know who he is. Not at trey’s level overall, but a strong dude. Trey posted 875 for a triple this week, hence my confusion, lol.
yea it sounds like he’s a deadlift specialist, with that squat/deadlift differential. but the deadlift is still very elite, the squat and bench not as much.
You also have to remember that if we’re talking about strongman/powerlifting/human history in any kind of perspective other than what’s happening right now, you need to remember that 20-30 years ago, 800 lbs deadlifts were EXTREMELY rare, and the first 1000 lbs deadlift only happened less than 20 years ago, I believe. In the last 5-10 years, everyone has been pushing the deadlift hard. Numbers across the board are rising. 800 isn’t what it was 20 years ago for sure. The strongman deadlift record 20 years ago was in the 800’s I believe.
For some, yes. There are guys in that 210 range who are pulling 90 % of the SHW world record deadlift, but nobody at 210 is benching like 650 lbs, or squatting 900+ (as far as I know).
Agree here.
It wasn’t until the 50s or 60s that someone did a 500 lb bench. I know a handful of guys that can do that raw. Seeing something is possible is a pretty powerful thing.
I’ve always prefaced any discussion of PEDs over the years with the pre-amble that I"m not an expert on gear, I don’t use gear, and I don’t pretend to be an expert on gear because I know some guys who do use. With that said, I was pre-med undergrad, have two masters degrees, and like to think I’m a decently bright guy (you can disagree, I don’t mind). MAybe I’m wrong, but I’m under the impression taking endogenous testosterone is to supplement and increase the amount of Free-T in the individuals body. Obviously at higher levels endogenous sources can shut down the body’s natural production, which is why HGT doctors start with the smallest doses possible and monitor how high they can get your levels (@BrickHead am I incorrect?) … but, and I know this is always a source of argument from online experts,… some people respond better to lesser doses. THat’s something that has always been discussed with guys like Levrone, Priest, who knows who else. It’s always a matter of weighing pros and cons. How much do you need (or think you need) to get the results you’re after, vs how many side effects, and possible long term health issues are you willing to risk.
Now I don’t pop into the Pharma forum on here, but I hear from a few people I know in real life that it’s full of people who THINK they’re experts on pharmacology. In regard to Arash, as one of his close friends, I don’t want him to gamble with his health. I want him healthy and able to come to BBQs in my backyard and play with my kid for years to come. knowing what I know about how much attention he gives to diet, training, recovery, and how long he’s been one of the most committed gym goers I have ever met,… if he can make progress on a dose that a faceless person online doesn’t believe makes sense, and win multiple pro shows, land on multiple magazine covers, nab multiple sponsorships in an era when no one has sponsorships because they all think they’re IG-stars,… I’m more than okay not arguing about it.
As to the gear gurus, I liken it to my old high school’s football coach. Once you graduate, or get injured, no one cares about you. Your photo goes on “the wall” (or the guru’s web page), and they move onto their next prospect to make them look good and get business.
S
It is to replace not supplement (in almost all cases). I have heard of people using test ace at like 5 mg a day to supplement, but this is very uncommon, and provides hardly any benefit. Taking 100 mg a week will result in most men producing essentially 0 testosterone naturally. Some may have something wrong with their pituitary which causes LH and FSH (the testosterone signal hormones) to keep going, and they will still produce natural hormones. This is very rare though.
I watched Lee’s interview with Tom Platz on AAS. I put the probability of him telling the truth at close to 0. It is possible, but not probable.
I’m also not a testosterone expert, but I would imagine this just follows what you’d do with any drug: minimum effective dose. So it’s not necessarily that it won’t shut down your production (my understanding is exogenous hormone use is going to shut down your production based more on chronic use than peak levels anyway), it’s that you want to mitigate side effects while reaping benefits. The prevailing pragmatic thought is: less drug = less side effect. If I can get you into a range where you have less fatigue, for example, but don’t increase your blood pressure, that’s a win. If we need to try to maintain some ability to produce again (maybe you’re young and want children), I think we’re going to add HCG (and pray?) vs. hope the test isn’t too much.
Anyway, none of that is meant to disagree with your point at all; just musing out loud.
What is the minimum effective dose if the desired result is gaining as much muscle as possible? We know taking larger doses has shown to produce more muscle in almost all cases (certain drugs will reduce appetite, so that can be a factor that would result in the more isn’t better being true).
I don’t think the concept applies, because this is no longer a medical decision
For TRT, many go with the approach you describe (minimum dose to reduce sides). Others I know go with the highest dose in which their blood markers and stuff like BP are good, and their symptoms are gone (this could be called performance TRT). Multiple approaches exist.
