Yeah, I’ve found that as well. I get that not everyone has ever actually been around IFBB Pros (I still remember seeing Gary Strydom in the Firehouse restaurant during my first time in LA back around 1995 and he was enormous!!!), but the nonplussed attitude so many people online have just makes me shake my head.
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Why would someone do this? I am guessing average HRT is about 150 mg a week of test (most are not using GH and other AAS). Less than that, would not give much of an advantage to most people, if any advantage at all.
Must be a very small fraction, if it ends up less than average HRT. I guess I don’t know why one would even talk to a guru if he was just going to use low dose HRT. Seems like a waste of time. To me, your description of his gear use does not add up, or he has some sort of mental disability in which he seeks out advice from steroid gurus, then just runs low dose HRT. Maybe there is some other explanation, but this is odd behavior.
We just have different definitions of elite. That is okay. I agree he meets your definition, and has 1/1000 genetics for bodybuilding. I am not saying in any way that he is bad or anything, just that there are different guys I think of when I think of the elite, best of the best bodybuilders. It is okay to admit that this isn’t an objective sport (it isn’t a sport at all in fact). It is completely subjective. What I prefer in a physique can be different than others.
Would you say everyone who makes it to the open BB Olympia stage is elite or only the top couple of guys?
I do not think even every winner of the Mr O. Has elite genetics. I think some just worked very hard. Guys like Sameer Bannout come to mind. Way above average, but he had short biceps, and his legs didn’t have super long muscles either.
Maybe he had a mental advantage over others that made up for his physical lackings. Maybe that made him elite? I don’t think many count mental stuff as elite in bodybuilding though.
This discussion reminds me of an argument me and a good friend had 30 years ago about the VW beetle. He argued that is was a classic car but I said just cause it’s old it doesn’t make it a classic. It needs to have classic looks to be a classic car. Went on for about 3 hours. Most stupid argument I’ve ever had in my life 
Samir didn’t have good genetics or wasn’t elite. OK I’m out of here now, this has reached next level ridiculous.
I’m not the only one who thinks that. I read a piece from darden a while back that made a pretty good case that his arm genetics are fairly common. I don’t consider bicep insertions that 10 percent of people have or have better than to be elite arm genetics.
You are right though. It is like arguing who is an elite drummer. It is completely subjective.
Zane could never get to be Arnold’s size. His insertions and muscle length were inferior in almost every muscle group. Is he elite because people like his physique? Maybe?, it is subjective is my point.
Just long tendons in his biceps (for that level of bbing). But again maybe some prefer that.
Maybe a way to look at elite is the percentage of the population who could recreate a similar look. I would argue at least 100 guys could look like Zane for every one capable of looking like Ronnie. I have never seen Ronnie’s physique replicated, but I’ve seen some classic guys that look Zane like. I’ve seen cover models and classic guys that look somewhat like Arash. It isn’t nearly as rare as seeing someone who remotely resembles Ronnie’s physique.
You seem to be an outlier for how few people you consider to be elite, How would you define elite in powerlifting? Would you define it terms of a minimum total as they do now and anyone who can lift it is “elite”, or a total as defined by the top total ever achieved give or take a small percentage?
Elite in powerlifting is a defined objective thing. It is a total at a BW with the allowed gear. I don’t need to make a subjective call on what is elite. It is one of the things about PLing that I think makes it more appealing for me than BBing (that and although I don’t like the singlet, it is far better than a thong).
I will say that I think elite in PLing is too easy. I think the totals should be higher. The awards and such are too much too. We all don’t need medals, and it takes away from the people who actually should have them.
I can agree that all of the individuals we are talking about have rare genetic qualities. I still think some are far rarer than others.
He’s the best in the the world through hard work alone.
I think you’ve been watching too many 90’s cartoons.
Hard work < being born good at something.
Nice strawman. I already said he has genetic gifts for BBing that are extremely rare. He also was on a ton of juice, and worked extremely hard. I am just making the point that the most genetically gifted doesn’t always win. Additionally, what those genetics are is completely subjective. Zane won Olympias, but many more men could look like him than many of the guys who lost to Zane. Zane probably had some of the most common genetics out of everyone on stage.
To some extent. A guy with great genetics and great work ethic can beat a guy with elite genetics and shit work ethic. It has happened in body building and other sports. Now hard work and shit genetics will almost for sure lose to elite genetics and shit work ethic, but that isn’t the point I made at all.
Obviously some know how I’ve been close friends with the guy for 22 years.
I think sometimes some photos don’t do justice for showing how freaky some people are, including professional ones.
Here are some pictures I took of him at the gym in 2016. I think this was shortly before the Pittsburgh Pro which he won, and then shortly after won the N.Y. Pro, which Stu and I attended. @The_Mighty_Stu This is very low on carbs, flat and gaunt.
Almost no one can look like this. I think he’s elite. 
So…clavicle lengthening surgery works???.. (that’s a joke, to those that didn’t read that thread)
Definitely elite.
I was more so asking for your opinion on what would make a PLer “elite”
For example, if body building defined elite as having bee on the Mr O stage, you would disagree. You seem to not like the “anyone who can achieve X is elite” model.
I was just curious how YOU would define elite
I’m still waiting on the picture of an elite 16 year old to contrast with his non-eliteness.
Well, I’m okay with accepting a definition. It seems the consensus here is what you consider elite. I’m okay with these guys being elite if we agree, and I seem to be the outlier here.
For powerlifting, I’m not really sure. I can think of examples, but nailing it down is pretty difficult. Going by numbers makes more sense in pling. I know a guy who deadlifts over 800 as a junior and weighs 210. That is pretty good genetically, but not sure elite. It doesn’t compare to Don Reinhold for example.
Well, I think priest had him beat as a teenager. I am having trouble with the picture on mobile, but a Google search will show you.
Per my post above, I seem to be an outlier, and conceded that since everyone agrees on a different definition, that I’m okay with changing my position.
