Gay bashing on these forums

Off Topic
141

Knight,

You are starting to disapoint me. Your our logic seems to be stating that you can imply existance without any proof!

Your Logic:
Joe Smith is Gay. Therefore, Joe must have been born that way.

My Logic:
Joe Smith is Gay. We do not know conclusively why he is Gay.

Which makes more sense my friend?

As to your next comment-I never once stated in my example that you KnightRt, commented negatively on any of the groups that were highlited.

This was an open example. This simply means that if the shoe fits wear it. If you have never in your life made a snide comment about another group based upon how they look or act, then it does not apply to you? Is this what you are claiming?

Regarding your last comment- “If you want to voice your discontent, fine but don’t be surprised if your unsolicited opinion is unwelcome”.

On the contrary I think my “unsolicited opinion” (was your opinion solicited?) was quite welcome. There were many on the board who agreed completly with my analysis of free speech regarding homosexuality. You can go count them if you like.

What I think is bothersome to you and others is this: Someone is willing to stand up and attempt to dismantle the inaccurate politically correct thinking that has been jammed down our throats for at least the past fifteen to twenty years.

Personally, I always try to take anothers feelings into account. That is a personal decision, as it should be for you and every responsible adult. However, it should never be mandated by any special interest group. Attempting to make everyone fit your politically correct mold is not only not going to work, but cause you great frustration. We live in a free society, isn’t that enough?

I am involved in many charities and try to give generously when there is a need. If there is a tragedy and I am called upon to help out I do not ask or care if one or all of the recipients is gay. Would you consider that appropriate behavior? This is the way I choose to live my life. However, I do not attempt to force others into this mode of behavior. I lead by example and others are free to agree or not.

Regardless of my personal beliefs. I am not for taking away someones right to criticize the homosexual lifestyle, or to comment on any other topic of the day. There is a hierarchy of importance regarding various interests in this country. In my mind nothing is so precious as free speech!

Many are offended daily by the amount of pornography that flows through the computer, television and various other media. I have been in heated debates with them regarding this. In a free society we must put up with the lowest common denomonator in order to attain our highest ideals. That which is the ability to think, speak and act in a free society, without fear of retribution by any person or group hell bent on taking away those rights!

You are a smart guy, for the most part. I challenge you to think out of the box. Does your own personal hierarchy have protection of a homosexuals feelings at the top of the list? Do you think that, that one issue has a right to trump free speech?

While you are pondering this, you might also inform me where in the United States constitution it states that people are not supposed to hurt each others feelings while exercising their right to free speech? Winston churchill once said that “democracy is messy but it works”.

142

I agree “hole” heartedly. I may have lost my Klan membership card, but I promise right now not to ?poke? fun at or demean any fag or homo by comparing them to being feminine. I will reserve the highly regarded terms of ?fag? and ?homo? only to those of you that penetrate other men?s asses or allow them to penetrate your own. I will not assume that people around me are gay or black. I wanted to thank you for bringing this to my attention. I wish you the best and hope that you don’t blow out an O ring or loose bowel control in your new practices.

Me Solomon Grundy

143

This thread has gotten way out of control. Ok, probably my fault - maybe “gay bashing” was the wrong term, especially with how some of you define it.

The only point I was making was this:

Just as you wouldn’t say to someone “dude, quit being such a nigger”, think before you say “dude, quit being such a fag”

Both are offensive.

Now, let’s let it die a happy death.

144

[quote]BOTH of your first arguments succumb to logical fallacy. You can’t imply lack of existence merely for lack of proof.

We can’t prove the existence of aliens. Therefore, aliens don’t exist.

See what I’m talking about?

You’ve done this kind of thing in nearly every reply to this topic[/quote]

He has not.

You seem to love flinging around accusations of logical fallacies so much that you see them where they don’t exist.

From your link:

I have not seen ZEB once make this error.

He has quite clearly expressed that since it has not been proven true it MAY be false.

MAY vs IS - this is a VERY important difference, the latter is a logical fallacy, the former is not.

One could furthermore look at the efforts which have been expended in order to prove it is true (efforts which have thus far not been successful) in order to achieve a subjective estimate as to the probability it is false (ie to quantify the “MAY”)

I’ve known quite a few partially educated people who love through around such accusations of logical fallacy - in most cases not only are they wrong in their assumptions but they simply have no counter argument whatsoever - they’re really just using the accusation as a vaguely pretentious way of saying “shut up.”

145

Rumbach,

Thanks for the opportunity to speak out on the issue! They say iron sharpens iron. I agree.

146

That sort of lifestyle is sickening and a down right stench in God’s nostrils .

It is unatural and unholy . VILE is the word that comes to mind .

147


.

148

Gawd I hate mexicans.

=]

149

P-Dog:

“again until gays are enslaved and being lynched , there is no comaprison.”

P-Dog, here is how comparisons work. You take two things and describe how they are similar and disimilar. If they were exactly alike, they would be the same thing, and there would be no point in comparing them.

Therefore, your argument that the experiences of blacks and homosexuals are not exactly alike is irrelevent. They are not exactly alike, but they are similar because both groups receive harsh, unfair treatment due to an immutable characteristic.

From our experiences with slavery/racism we should learn how stupid and harmful it is to hate other groups, especially for irrelevant, immutable characteristiscs. (For an example of this, in the context of your gay marriage rant, see Loving v. Virginia, a famous Supreme Court case where state laws forbidding interracial marriages was finally ruled unconstitutional).

“show me some examples of gay bashing on this site (before now) please.”

While this argument may prove too subtle for you, I am still suprised you still do not understand it, given how many times it has been repeated on this thread. One form of gay bashing people are (rightly) objecting to, that exists on this board is labeling bad things “gay”. It appears you think it is only gay bashing if someone says “We should kill all faggots”.

“sorry, you are right i dont keep up with all of the happenings with gays in america.”

It’s not that difficult too keep up with current events. A failure to do so makes one look ignorant.

“you know the ole’ adam and eve, not adam and steve.”

Now, Adam and Eve comes from the Bible right? Isn’t that the book that says, “Judge not…” That’s the book that preaches love, not hate, right?

Tell me, is the purpose of the bible to tell us who to hate? Or does it teach love and acceptance and instruct us to leave the judging to God?

150

ZEB:

You do realize that the first amendment operates as a restraint upon GOVERNMENT, not people correct?

While you may or may not realize that above fact, the argument you are making (as I understand it) does not suggest you do. I agree that there should be open communication, but there should also be a sense of human decency.

I guess my thoughts on your argument (re: free speech) is best said by a late Supreme Court justice (Holmes, I think, but I am probably wrong) who said, “Freedom of speech is a restraint on government, NOT an exhortation on the people.”

The first part of the quote is fact that I think you miss. The second part is something I hope you understand and consider.

151

"prove to me that you were born gay and
then maybe i will feel sorry for you. but until that day it is a choice made by you and only you. "
I think I speak for every gay/lesbian/bisexual I’ve ever known here :
I dont WANT you to feel sorry for me. I accept me. Matter a fact, if you did ever feel sorry for me I’d tell you to take your pitty & flush it. Im happy the way I am(now), so why cant you(and others who feel the same way you do)be happy for me? It took me a long time to accept me the way I am, because it wasnt a choice.

quoting one webpage “there are gay children, even in the Midwest, about the same 10% as is true everywhere else. This means that in every classroom of 30 students, there are at least 3 students who will be exclusively gay and at least 3 more who will develop a bisexual response to life. This means that on a city block with 25 families, there might well be 3 gay men, 3 lesbians, and 4 bisexuals. Two or three of these may exhibit some form of cross-gender identity.”
Born that way or not, proven or not, they’re still gay children who did not make a concious choice to be gay.

As for gay rights, I think you’re comparing apples to oranges. Two different times, two different sets of situations. What would’ve happend if I came out of the closet in the 1800s, 1900s, 1940s? But I will give these examples for basic modern human rights. People of different races were portrayed on television at least a decade before gay/lesbians were. People of different races have also been accepted in all sports, but what do you think would happen if your favorate football player came out of the closet BEFORE retirement? Do we not get fired from our jobs too because of discrimination? Do we get asked to leave places knowing its because we’re out of the closet? I know of people who are NOT homosexual who dress in drag for rocky horror midnight picture show who take a carpool cause they would get beaten up on the subway.
Oh right, heres a nifty survey for your to check out. All americans were polled, not just homosexuals. http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/pcc_detail.cfm?issue_type=gay_rights&list=6

We have more rights?I honestly believe the only reason that can be said is because there isnt that much documented on homosexuals rights because they/we can hide it much better than say someone could the color of their skin, or their religion. If a tree falls in the woods, does it make a noise? If you cover an object with a blanket is it not there?
If there was a telltale sign I imagine the history would be a hell of a lot different, and therefore the present would be different. And throughout the ages there have been times when homosexuality was embraced, and then later punishable by “torture, castration, or even the death penalty. [The death penalty was punishment for homosexual behavior in late imperial Roman law.]”

anyways, I feel sorrier for you & others with the same attitude (who would feel sorry for homosexuals/bisexuals) because you potentially loose out on long lasting friendships, conversations, learning expiriences etc etc etc.

Lauren

152

morg lmao, MR. haaaand

153

Pat,

The First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

I hope that this clears up any confusion regarding the first amendment.

154

ZEB,

Thanks for reinforcing my point. We may disagree about homosexuality, but at least I have improved your understanding of Con Law.

155

Colin/Merlin/Gays,

Yes there probably is research about being born gay. That is the problem with research. For every topic, there is “research” for and opposing arguments in support of the said topic. Fuck the research. Take it and stick up your ass, when it isn’t being occupied by a dick.

Now, we can talk about logic. Being gay is a sexual preference, a fucking choice.

So you if what you say is true, can I born with the preference to fuck sheep, and other farm animals?? or what if I prefer small children?? I mean come on, it’s not my fault, I was born that way right??

CLearly we can see your fucking reasearch doesn’t amount to shit.

Further, humans are animals. The main function of all animals, (all creatures) is to reproduce, and multiply to keep life going.

Humans are the only animals that think about shit like this…because some people think to much.

Other animals, that are concerned strictly with reproduction don’t or wouldn’t comprehend the subject.

We (or actually you gays) as people, think to much.

TELL ME HOW THE FUCK TWO GAY PEOPLE REPRODUCE???

They don’t. Reproduction, the continuation of life) requires a man and a woman. If everyone was gay, the entire civilization would end shortly after.

Now, where is your research to tell me how we (or actually you gays/gay supporters) will carry out reproduction which is necessary to continue on with life and human civilization without a woman??

156

Pat,

Please do not flatter yourself! I knew exactly what I stated when I was debating the right of free speech.

The fact that you are able to misquote Holmes, believe it or not, is unimpressinve.

Allow me to give you an accurate quote of Oliver Wendel Holmes: “The very end of our institutions is this: That we may think what we like and say what we think”.

Nothing in that quote implies that we need be delicate in doing so. The right of free speech is far greater than any nicety that may be applied by a well intended comment. The inference being, it is far more important to speak your mind crudely than to not speak your mind at all. In my opinion it is always a good idea to be as diplomatic and thoughtful as possible. However, it is not a prerequisite of free speech, as the politically correct would like.

I have stated this and more in my numerous posts. I wish you had jumped in earlier.

Take care Pat and all the best!

Zeb

157

I have a serious question while we’re on the topic. What is a Metrosexual? I’ve been hearing it a lot lately and saw South Park’s little special on this very subject. Where did that word come from and what the hell is it?

158

Pat Bateman,

In that same book you quoted, why dont you read about “men who lie with men” (fags) 1 Corinthians 6:9. See what the bible has to say about that…it’s all there. There are plenty there, the only one I could come up with of the top of my head…

Try reading it before you start quoting off random topics.

p.s. You’re a disgrace to the real Patrick Bateman…

159

Greekdawg, you’re just embarrassing yourself.

And, if you ever read American Psycho (I somehow doubt you ever read), you’d know that Patrick Bateman was a repressed homosexual, or at least very confused.

160

Grreekdawg,

“Further, humans are animals. The main function of all animals, (all creatures) is to reproduce, and multiply to keep life going.”

=

procreate (i think lol) not making fun just trying to help.

You have the most valid post though. Being gay is a choice. I’m sure if you held a gun to a gay guy’s head and said fuck this girl, he would do it. Point being is that it’s a choice and the whole point of a species is to reproduce and make more and more and more. Even though they were “born that way”, they have the choice.

I’ll be honest and say it, i don’t think it’s right but, im not going to lose sleep over it. If gay’s have the right to be gay, i have the right to express my opinion.