Hello. Alot of people I know don’t believe you can gain muscle while losing fat at all. They say “no no, that’s physiologically impossible - the human body can’t increase mass while losing fat!”. I would like if anybody has any examples, preferably with pics, of people (not beginners, and not on roids) that have gained muscle and lost fat at the same time. Please don’t make it into a debate about cutting or bulking, I already know that approach is the smartest and fastest.
Very few people would ever write “it is impossible to gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously”. What you will hear is that it is very difficult and you definitely won’t be gaining muscle optimally if you plan on pulling your body in two directions like that.
If that was the most efficient way of doing things, there wouldn’t be one bodybuilder who would avoid doing so for competition.
I will also add that the people who do actually approach their training this way don’t surpass those who go ahead and work on size without expecting to also get ripped at the exact same time.
As you have probably guessed this topic did not let up much in your absence. There has been no shortage of misunderstanding, oversimplification, over complication, theoretical demagoguery and non applicable examples.
Your very sensible response will no doubt turn into a call for unleashed gluttony before long. All mine did.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
As you have probably guessed this topic did not let up much in your absence. There has been no shortage of misunderstanding, oversimplification, over complication, theoretical demagoguery and non applicable examples.
Your very sensible response will no doubt turn into a call for unleashed gluttony before long. All mine did. [/quote]
I have learned that stupid people will always be stupid. There isn’t much you can do. If, “you need to eat more” gets misunderstood as, “eat candy and cookies all day long”, it may be best to just walk away.
What I do see, however, is that for a bodybuilding forum, there sure do seem to be a shit load of people who want to avoid gaining muscle mass. It seems like it has gotten even worse.
I didn’t even know that was possible.
Thanks for your answers
Most of the members at a forum im a member at says its impossible. Their exact response is that it’s impossible. So I’m looking for some real life proof of non-beginners, non-roided fellas who did it for some proof, because I very much doubt its >impossible<. Thibidious did it in his Beast Evolves after all.
I already know bulking for many years and then cutting back a little is the fastest approach, so no reason to rehash that though. 
[quote]Misterhamper wrote:
Thanks for your answers
Most of the members at a forum im a member at says its impossible. Their exact response is that it’s impossible. So I’m looking for some real life proof of non-beginners, non-roided fellas who did it for some proof, because I very much doubt its >impossible<. Thibidious did it in his Beast Evolves after all.
I already know bulking for many years and then cutting back a little is the fastest approach, so no reason to rehash that though. :)[/quote]
I don’t know what you hope to gain by this. Professor X’s post above sums up the long and short of this entire debate. I’ve typed my fingers bloody going back and forth with people about this much to my frustration.
I hope to gain some pictures or links of people that have done it, so I can show them it is not physiologically impossible<<
This isn’t because I’ll do it myself. As I have already stated, I know it’s smarter to bulk and then cut.
[quote]Misterhamper wrote:
I hope to gain some pictures or links of people that have done it, so I can show them it is not physiologically impossible<<
This isn’t because I’ll do it myself. As I have already stated, I know it’s smarter to bulk and then cut.[/quote]
Go here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1593476&pageNo=0
Kiyoshi Moody on this site is one of the few (and there are very few) bodybuilders who claims to gain weight into a bodybuilding contest. Kevin Levrone claimed similar.
Much respect to Moody, by the way.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Misterhamper wrote:
I hope to gain some pictures or links of people that have done it, so I can show them it is not physiologically impossible<<
This isn’t because I’ll do it myself. As I have already stated, I know it’s smarter to bulk and then cut.
Go here:
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1593476&pageNo=0
Kiyoshi Moody on this site is one of the few (and there are very few) bodybuilders who claims to gain weight into a bodybuilding contest. Kevin Levrone claimed similar.
Much respect to Moody, by the way.[/quote]
Thank you, but I would like if it was people not on steroids. There is alot of difference between those and those not on them. No disrespect.
And Kevin Levrone’s was also because of muscle memory since he often stopped training after a contest afaik.
Why waste time like that?
You could go balls deep in bulking OR cutting and make much better progress in one or the other.
As you said yourself, Thibs did it in his beast evolves article. Plenty experienced, anti-steroids guy complete with pictures and lots of detail.
[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
Why waste time like that?
You could go balls deep in bulking OR cutting and make much better progress in one or the other. [/quote]
As said, it’s not because I will do it. I am already bulking, and will keep doing so for years.
What will pics prove? You can slap any date you like on some before and afters and say that they didn’t bulk or cut…
Here’s a little/well known fact. Most accomplishments this side of the comics are not only possible, but have been done by somebody, somewhere, sometime. I learned a long time that the injudicious use of superlatives, like impossible, is the quickest path to looking like a bonehead.
This is a question I’ve been debating myself for a very long time. I guess you can say that it is possible, look at the guys from 300, many of them were able to gain muscle and burn fat at the same time. For me, I have really cranked up the intensity in my training, and have been making my workouts short but intense.
I’ve gained 5 pounds (220 to 225) in the last month while dropping from 13% body fat to 11% bodyfat, and most importantly my lifts in the compound movements have really gone up. Diversifying my training routine and implementing many advanced techniques (Heavy Duty Training, 20 rep squats, supersetting, turbulence training…etc) has really helped me significantly.
Oh yeah…i fixed my diet too…that was a big reason for my gains =)
[quote]Misterhamper wrote:
Thank you, but I would like if it was people not on steroids. There is alot of difference between those and those not on them. No disrespect…[/quote]
To be fair Kiyoshi does compete in both tested and non tested shows.
For your topic I think the guys above got it right(like usual) with it’s possible but you won’t be doing either optimally. It’s actually what I’m doing now but you better believe I’d rather be in rapid muscle mass gain then what I’m doing now, some previous setbacks aren’t allowing that currently.
If you care what I’m doing…
Training is the same, progressive on key exercises, diet is 90% the same except basically most carbs(except post workout and cardio) are cut and replaced with fibrous veggies and some healthy fats, still very high protein. Cardio is done 5-6 days a week 45 minutes at a pop and green tea intake is very high(these two things are what I consider the most important). Result? Staying about the same weight but noticably leaner and still the same measurements. If I took this approach long term I’d certainly lean up while I grew but it would take me AT LEAST twice as long to get where I want to muscularity wise, this is a very short term project for me.
1g of protein per pound of bw+1g of carb per pound of bodyweight+4 tbs of olive oil+4 caps of fish oil+4-6meals+training 4-6 times per week=extreme fat loss and moderate muscle gain.
Also requires extreme dedication.
[quote]will to power wrote:
As you said yourself, Thibs did it in his beast evolves article. Plenty experienced, anti-steroids guy complete with pictures and lots of detail.[/quote]
I really didn’t do it. I basically lost the fat that I had an maintained the muscle that I had. I might have gained a few pounds but mostly because as an Olympic lifter I never trained the upper body’s pressing muscles. So these muscles (and biceps) were basically ‘‘beginner muscles’’ that easily progressed.
But I will be the first one to say that it is extremely hard to gain a significant amount of muscle while losing fat. You CAN add a few pounds (key word A FEW) if you are lucky, genetically gifted or doing everything perfectly. But don’t expect much growth.
Why is this said to be “impossible”? Dieting up is possible. And OP I wouldn’t completely neglect the results of steroid users… It’s been said before; steroids help but they don’t diet and train for you.
The way I see it, bare with me, is that adequate protein intake and training could get you the results that the non-natural guys are getting. Only thing is the amount of time that they have to prepare for to be in show condition. Also the duration of time in which they remain at that low percentage of bf.
I’m going to get my head lopped off for this but theoretically this rings true to me.
Not impossible.