[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
will to power wrote:
As you said yourself, Thibs did it in his beast evolves article. Plenty experienced, anti-steroids guy complete with pictures and lots of detail.
I really didn’t do it. I basically lost the fat that I had an maintained the muscle that I had. I might have gained a few pounds but mostly because as an Olympic lifter I never trained the upper body’s pressing muscles. So these muscles (and biceps) were basically ‘‘beginner muscles’’ that easily progressed.
But I will be the first one to say that it is extremely hard to gain a significant amount of muscle while losing fat. You CAN add a few pounds (key word A FEW) if you are lucky, genetically gifted or doing everything perfectly. But don’t expect much growth.[/quote]
CT,
I’m obviously not disagreeing with you, but in a Poliquin article on this very site, he tackles that question and says it is very possible and he does it often with his clients. What do you think of Poliquin’s claim?
Also, didn’t you basically do it while doing your insulin protocol? You decreased you skinfolds significantly and your bodyweight stayed the same.
I’m obviously not disagreeing with you, but in a Poliquin article on this very site, he tackles that question and says it is very possible and he does it often with his clients. What do you think of Poliquin’s claim?[/quote]
These claims are with super elite athletes (read best genetic material on the planet) who are returning to serious training and good eating after a season. Football players and hockey players often lose 10-15lbs of muscle during a season just because they can’t train that hard on top of their games an practices and because of the elevation in cortisol levels.
Plus, in most pro sports, diet during the season is, at best, below average.
In that situation, if you take a give who lost several pounds of muscle, gained some fat, is detrained and has screwed up hormones it IS possible to gain muscle and lose fat for 4-6 weeks. My hockey players routinely pick up 10-15lbs while losing fat during their first 4-6 weeks of the off-season. But it’s mostly regained muscle.
[quote]greekdawg wrote:
Also, didn’t you basically do it while doing your insulin protocol? You decreased you skinfolds significantly and your bodyweight stayed the same. [/quote]
My body fat was minimal. I lost around 4% of body fat while keeping the same weight (I actually lost a few pounds after the 3rd week). That translated into something like a 7lbs loss of fat and a gain of 2lbs in lean body mass. Understand that
‘‘lean body mass’’ is not just muscle, it is anything that is not fat: water, stomach content, organs, glycogen, muscle, etc.
When I switched to the protocol I actually reintroduced carbs (75g post-workout) which put me around 100g per day compared to less than 40g per day before that. Not huge, but enough to increase glycogen and water storage.
These gifted people train harder and better then ever before. They often have some fat on them. A marathon guy looking to add muscle, for example, would never be able to make it into their portfolio shots, because he would def. gain fat.
These gifted people train harder and better then ever before. They often have some fat on them. A marathon guy looking to add muscle, for example, would never be able to make it into their portfolio shots, because he would def. gain fat.
[/quote]
God damn that change is impressive for 12 weeks.
No wonder people get impatient and over-do/complicate things when they see results like that.
Edit - lots of other impressive changes on the before/after shots too.
But you must consider the subtle changes in lighting and some baby oil they put on the after shots to enhance the effect. Still great changes none the less.
You can also notice that the skinnier guys on the average have much less visual difference than the bigger guys who are losing fat.
But you must consider the subtle changes in lighting and some baby oil they put on the after shots to enhance the effect. Still great changes none the less.
[/quote]
It can make a HUGE difference!!! Here are before and after pics of Rick Silverman, taken 6 DAYS appart.
‘‘The before photographs were taken the night I arrived home from a surgical expedition to South America. I was unshaven for two days, carrying my winter weight as well as my winter fur, and sporting a pair of baggy gym shorts. The pictures were taken using an Olympus 2000 digital camera using a flash, and you can perhaps see the remote control in my right hand. Pretty awful. The after pictures were taken…not twelve weeks later…not six weeks later…but six days later. And that was only because I didn’t have time to take them the next day. I shaved my face, shaved my body, stood up straight the way my mother always told me to, and I used the same camera with somewhat better lighting in a photography studio setting in my office. I might have been able to improve the lighting a bit more, but I didn’t have time. Again, the remote control is in my right hand. I have not dieted. I have not used any revolutionary supplement. I did suck in my gut.’’
But you must consider the subtle changes in lighting and some baby oil they put on the after shots to enhance the effect. Still great changes none the less.
It can make a HUGE difference!!! Here are before and after pics of Rick Silverman, taken 6 DAYS appart.
‘‘The before photographs were taken the night I arrived home from a surgical expedition to South America. I was unshaven for two days, carrying my winter weight as well as my winter fur, and sporting a pair of baggy gym shorts. The pictures were taken using an Olympus 2000 digital camera using a flash, and you can perhaps see the remote control in my right hand. Pretty awful. The after pictures were taken…not twelve weeks later…not six weeks later…but six days later. And that was only because I didn’t have time to take them the next day. I shaved my face, shaved my body, stood up straight the way my mother always told me to, and I used the same camera with somewhat better lighting in a photography studio setting in my office. I might have been able to improve the lighting a bit more, but I didn’t have time. Again, the remote control is in my right hand. I have not dieted. I have not used any revolutionary supplement. I did suck in my gut.’’
[/quote]
That is almost inconcievable, he looks like a completely different person.
[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
That is almost inconcievable, he looks like a completely different person.[/quote]
Tadah! And he mentioned in the article that he could have made it more dramatic if he spent more time planing the ‘‘after’’ shot and used a different camera.
Then there is another trick a lot of people do not know about… reverse time frame!
Basically they take a bodybuilder or someone who is in great shape and they take pictures of him in great shape… this will be the AFTER shot.
Then they will have him gain a ton of fat, stop training, limit body hygiene, etc. Then take other pictures which will be the BEFORE shot.
Most commercial before and after shots are actually of this second type.
Most commercial before and after shots are actually of this second type.
I will have to cancel my lateral thigh trainer order then …
But to the OP - if the other forum says that this is “impossible” then perhaps your in the wrong forum…
Of course you may like that forum in which case politely point out that if the body is capable of building muscle and losing fat that it will be capable of doing both at the same time although as discussed inefficiently
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
That is almost inconcievable, he looks like a completely different person.
Tadah! And he mentioned in the article that he could have made it more dramatic if he spent more time planing the ‘‘after’’ shot and used a different camera.
Then there is another trick a lot of people do not know about… reverse time frame!
Basically they take a bodybuilder or someone who is in great shape and they take pictures of him in great shape… this will be the AFTER shot.
Then they will have him gain a ton of fat, stop training, limit body hygiene, etc. Then take other pictures which will be the BEFORE shot.
Most commercial before and after shots are actually of this second type.[/quote]
Don’t forget the frowny face or the facial expression that says, “15 more years and I can buy my freedom back”. No “before” pic is complete without it.
With thoughtful training and dieting it can be done. But I think you must keep a finger on training intensity, volume, and frequency. You must also manipulate caloric intake and percent of carbs, fat, and protein. These factors have to be monitored very closely and changed when needed.
Professor X wrote:
What I do see, however, is that for a bodybuilding forum, there sure do seem to be a shit load of people who want to avoid gaining muscle mass. It seems like it has gotten even worse.
I think people are not doing what it really takes to build muscle.
I agree… it honestly disappoints me to a large degree.
Go to professionalMuscle, and while it is not as “refined” as here, and the feel is rougher - ProfessionalMuscle is like a hardcore gym and sadly T-Nation is becomming more and more like a commercial gym. I mean, if you look at the members of each forum and compare - we are many, many pounds of muscle behind, and i honestly think for a bodybuilding forum there are drastically few competing or even non-competing BODYBUILDERS here.
You can get lads who are 5’5" at 175lbs who are in phenomenal shape that compete, so everyone below that could go into the beginners for a start!
I think there should be a T-Cell for fitness, then we can get rid of all those who are not into bodybuilding. Sometimes i read people openly admitting that they arent into bodybuilding! wtf?
…building muscle AND losing fat. Nah…what I personally do it cut back during the summer time and I usually gain a few pounds not many but a few, then fall and winter is bulking season. ;]
