Gaining Muscle, Losing Fat Question

Training
1

I always hear everyone saying if you eat under your maintenance any kind of food while weight lifting you’ll build up muscles and lose fat , how true is that?

There’s a lot of contradictory thoughts on this, for example , A 6"2 ,23lbs guy with an RDA of 2500 ,eating a 1500 calories piece of cake, the cake would constitute the carbs and fat portion of his RDA and the rest of his RDA is 1000calories of chicken breast for protein, wont this kinda food initiate an insulin spike enhancing fat storage? how will the mentioned above make some one lose his fat?

Another question, Again a 6"2 230 lbs guy who wants to bulk , goes on a bulking diet of 3k calories per day , given that he eats 2500 calories divided between fat and carbs and the 500 calories are compensated by protien food, if this guy is weight lifting, wont he gain muscles? although it might take a long time for his muscles to grow , but technically his body will be using the carbs and fat for energy resource and throwing all his protien food into his muscle for building them.

Thanks

2

Your post makes my head hurt. I’ve seen your other threads in this forum and you are brand spanking new to lifting. You need not to be concerning yourself with these things right now.

What do you think eating cake will do to a physique? What sort of an insulin response do you think you would get from eating cake?

Of course that is not enough protein. That’s about .5 gram per pound of body weight.

Why do you torture yourself with these scenarios?

3

When Chris C half-seriously suggested getting John Meadows as a diet coach, well, maybe you really should get a diet coach.

The information out there is overwhelming, lots of it is contradictory, and you don’t really know who to trust. It takes lots of reading, lots of time, and asking lots of questions to wrap your head around most of this stuff.

Because you’re on a timeline (and there’s a monetary reward), you might truly be better served by getting at least some amount of coaching, especially for your diet.

OR, you can stick with a known diet like Green Faces or the Velocity Diet (there might be better options, but I don’t know what they are), monitor things very closely, and make adjustments as need be. You can keep getting input from the community here.

4

guys when i ask these question, i ask them not because i wanna try them, i ask them so i could educate myself.

What is it with people here, everytime someone asks an ouyt of the norm question you jump on his back and start bickering.

I am just asking for me , so i could learn, jesus guys you really need to dial down on your rage gene.

Trust me , when i want to try something , ill state it in my posts, ill say that i wanna try XXXXX what do you think.

Excuse me for saying the following, but if you “and i mean all of you” going to keep on being a smartas.s srsly guys, STFU ANF GTFO my thread. id rather have zero replys then your replys.

Again the stated above isnt directed to anyone in this thread or posting in any of my threads .

Its just a heads up.

Peace

5

[quote]kinetics.1981 wrote:
guys when i ask these question, i ask them not because i wanna try them, i ask them so i could educate myself.

What is it with people here, everytime someone asks an ouyt of the norm question you jump on his back and start bickering.

I am just asking for me , so i could learn, jesus guys you really need to dial down on your rage gene.

Trust me , when i want to try something , ill state it in my posts, ill say that i wanna try XXXXX what do you think.

Excuse me for saying the following, but if you “and i mean all of you” going to keep on being a smartas.s srsly guys, STFU ANF GTFO my thread. id rather have zero replys then your replys.

Again the stated above isnt directed to anyone in this thread or posting in any of my threads .

Its just a heads up.

Peace[/quote]

Huh?

Jackie basically said: “hey, you’re confused, and the way you’re approaching it is making it harder to understand”

I basically said: “hey, you’re confused, and there’s been some good diet suggestions in your other threads… but since you’re kind of in a time crunch to figure this out, it might make more sense to get a coach.”

No rage at all.

6

Another tidbit of information:

Not all carbs are the same.
Not all protein is the same.
Not all fats are the same.

The way the body processes the carbs from cake is different than the way it processes carbs from milk, which is different from the way it processes carbs from oatmeal. (The insulin response is very different between the three.)

Total calories is one way to look at things. PCF is another way to look at things. They’re simplified models to help guide the diet decisions, but they’re not prescriptive.

You can say “in general, you will lose weight eating less calories”, but if you’re not eating enough, you’ll stop losing weight. If you’re eating the wrong foods, you’ll stop losing weight.

And because of these details… instead of trying to design your own diet, you should look into V Diet or Green Faces or another one that someone suggests. Or, work with a coach.

7

[quote]kinetics.1981 wrote:
guys when i ask these question, i ask them not because i wanna try them, i ask them so i could educate myself.

What is it with people here, everytime someone asks an ouyt of the norm question you jump on his back and start bickering.

I am just asking for me , so i could learn, jesus guys you really need to dial down on your rage gene.

Trust me , when i want to try something , ill state it in my posts, ill say that i wanna try XXXXX what do you think.

Excuse me for saying the following, but if you “and i mean all of you” going to keep on being a smartas.s srsly guys, STFU ANF GTFO my thread. id rather have zero replys then your replys.

Again the stated above isnt directed to anyone in this thread or posting in any of my threads .

Its just a heads up.

Peace[/quote]

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to educate yourself, that is a very good thing. The problem is, you are asking very specific questions that don’t make much sense because you really don’t understand the larger concepts at all yet. Just keep reading.

Yes, it is possible (and not really that difficult) for a beginner to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. To do so, one should work very hard in the weight room, and eat GOOD foods (you probably know for the most part what these are, ie not cake), with lots of protein.

If you were previously eating poorly and not lifting weights, and you start eating better, around your maintenance level, and lifting weights, you can lose fat and gain muscle. Since you are currently in a weight loss/get abs for money competition, I would put more focus on the fat loss part, dropping my calories down further, still with an emphasis on good food and high protein, and still ensuring you kill it in the gym, as well as adding in extra cardio.

8

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]kinetics.1981 wrote:
guys when i ask these question, i ask them not because i wanna try them, i ask them so i could educate myself.

What is it with people here, everytime someone asks an ouyt of the norm question you jump on his back and start bickering.

I am just asking for me , so i could learn, jesus guys you really need to dial down on your rage gene.

Trust me , when i want to try something , ill state it in my posts, ill say that i wanna try XXXXX what do you think.

Excuse me for saying the following, but if you “and i mean all of you” going to keep on being a smartas.s srsly guys, STFU ANF GTFO my thread. id rather have zero replys then your replys.

Again the stated above isnt directed to anyone in this thread or posting in any of my threads .

Its just a heads up.

Peace[/quote]

Huh?

Jackie basically said: “hey, you’re confused, and the way you’re approaching it is making it harder to understand”

I basically said: “hey, you’re confused, and there’s been some good diet suggestions in your other threads… but since you’re kind of in a time crunch to figure this out, it might make more sense to get a coach.”

No rage at all.[/quote]

Thank you, Lo Rez. Hope you stick around here because you’re one of a few that have the ability to see things for what they are and how they are intended and you never seem to take offense to anything. You do good work, sir.

That is all that I was telling you, OP. If you’re new to the point where you are asking if you can accomplish your goal in 10 minutes, you shouldn’t be concerning yourself with complex theories. If you get to into them too much, you will distract yourself or begin to second-guess what you’re doing now and wind up just plain confused and not knowing what to think anymore. I realize that you’re just curious but you’re on a timeline for your contest so I just think your time and energy could be better used elsewhere. Not that what I think matters though so carry on. lol

9

[quote]kinetics.1981 wrote:
I always hear everyone saying if you eat under your maintenance any kind of food while weight lifting you’ll build up muscles and lose fat , how true is that?[/quote]
What you’re referring to is a popular and highly debated nutrition theory called “If It Fits Your Macros.” It’s a big topic and a lot of knowledgeable guys have debated it back and forth. Admittedly, I haven’t looked into it much myself, so my gut reaction if “If it sounds too good to be true…” These threads have more info:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/carb_source_doesnt_matter_for_body_comp

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/iifym_discussion

In this example, he won’t gain muscle because, as Jackie said, he’s not eating nearly enough protein. Eating lots of calories from carbs and fat without getting enough protein is how a lot of guys screw up their bulk, and end up fatter and weaker than when they started.

[quote]What is it with people here, everytime someone asks an ouyt of the norm question you jump on his back and start bickering.

I am just asking for me , so i could learn, jesus guys you really need to dial down on your rage gene.
…
Excuse me for saying the following, but if you “and i mean all of you” going to keep on being a smartas.s srsly guys, STFU ANF GTFO my thread. id rather have zero replys then your replys.[/quote]
I agree with Rez. I don’t know where you’re coming from with this, as I didn’t see much attitude being thrown your way in this thread or in others that I can recall. You’re getting input and considering the big misunderstandings you have about training and nutrition, I think most people are being pretty good about it.

[quote]Lo Rez wrote:
you can stick with a known diet like Green Faces[/quote]
There’s an article on this site about that. Just sayin’. :wink:

10

[quote]Lo Rez wrote:
you can stick with a known diet like Green Faces[/quote]
There’s an article on this site about that. Just sayin’. ;)[/quote]

I read the green face diet ,a couple of questions

[quote]Breakfast: Big-ass omelet (whole eggs, green pepper, broccoli)

Mid-morning snack: Canned tuna, celery

Lunch: Big-ass salad (spinach, Romaine lettuce, Boston lettuce, cucumber, green peas), grilled chicken

Pre and Peri-Workout: Anaconda Protocol 2

Dinner: Plenty of steak, grilled zucchini, grilled asparagus

Before bed snack: Hard-boiled eggs, snap peas[/quote]

At breakfast when he say whole eggs, does he mean eating all the eggs with their yolk? Everyday i eat 6 eggs, so if i to follow him, i should eat the 6 eggs full?

and at duinner , it says plenty of steak , how much is plenty?

and damn vince gironda had an some extreme ways of training dieting

11

[quote]kinetics.1981 wrote:
I read the green face diet ,a couple of questions

[quote]Breakfast: Big-ass omelet (whole eggs, green pepper, broccoli)

Mid-morning snack: Canned tuna, celery

Lunch: Big-ass salad (spinach, Romaine lettuce, Boston lettuce, cucumber, green peas), grilled chicken

Pre and Peri-Workout: Anaconda Protocol 2

Dinner: Plenty of steak, grilled zucchini, grilled asparagus

Before bed snack: Hard-boiled eggs, snap peas[/quote]
At breakfast when he say whole eggs, does he mean eating all the eggs with their yolk? Everyday i eat 6 eggs, so if i to follow him, i should eat the 6 eggs full?[/quote]
Yep, whole eggs are the entire thing - crack the shell open and cook everything inside - rather than separating the egg whites and tossing out the yolk.

My fault on that one. “Plenty” is a technical term often used within the fitness industry during communications between trainers. It generally translates, to the common man, as “enough to get full, so that your belly says to your unconscious mind, 'thank you, sir, for providing this delicately-prepared cow meat with which we shall build new muscle and increase our power.”

12

Edit: Quoting isnt working for some reason, so ill mark my question with asterisks

Edit prime: ah now it works

em, this diet regime is very interesting, i did the math on calories on these food, i tried to be as accurate as possible. all this and i didnt even break the 2100 calories "not sure if am counting right, but i tracked everything on calorie king

[quote]**************Breakfast: Big-ass omelet (whole eggs, green pepper, broccoli)

6 whole eggs “from calorieking” = 429 calories**************[/quote]

total = 430 cals

[quote]**************Mid-morning snack: Canned tuna, celery

canned tuna diet with water:************** [/quote]

total=131calories

Grilled chicken 200gram= 289 calories

total= 340

no idea what is this

[quote]**************Dinner: Plenty of steak, grilled zucchini, grilled asparagus

lets say 200 grams************** [/quote]

total=376 calories

6 eggs

total=465

total of all the above

430+131+289+340+376+465=2031

If my math is wrong here please someone point it out

Guess ill start with it tomorrow and see how things go.

Thanks for the reference

13

[quote]kinetics.1981 wrote:
Edit: Quoting isnt working for some reason, so ill mark my question with asterisks

Edit prime: ah now it works

em, this diet regime is very interesting, i did the math on calories on these food, i tried to be as accurate as possible. all this and i didnt even break the 2100 calories "not sure if am counting right, but i tracked everything on calorie king

[quote]**************Breakfast: Big-ass omelet (whole eggs, green pepper, broccoli)

6 whole eggs “from calorieking” = 429 calories**************[/quote]

total = 430 cals

[quote]**************Mid-morning snack: Canned tuna, celery

canned tuna diet with water:************** [/quote]

total=131calories

Grilled chicken 200gram= 289 calories

total= 340

no idea what is this

[quote]**************Dinner: Plenty of steak, grilled zucchini, grilled asparagus

lets say 200 grams************** [/quote]

total=376 calories

6 eggs

total=465

total of all the above

430+131+289+340+376+465=2031

If my math is wrong here please someone point it out

Guess ill start with it tomorrow and see how things go.

Thanks for the reference[/quote]

That anaconda protocol would add significant calories to that total.

I’ve never read up on this diet plan, but if it were me, I’d just throw in a few shakes to ge the calories up, if you need that.

14

[quote]kinetics.1981 wrote:
guys when i ask these question, i ask them not because i wanna try them, i ask them so i could educate myself.

What is it with people here, everytime someone asks an ouyt of the norm question you jump on his back and start bickering.

I am just asking for me , so i could learn, jesus guys you really need to dial down on your rage gene.

Trust me , when i want to try something , ill state it in my posts, ill say that i wanna try XXXXX what do you think.

Excuse me for saying the following, but if you “and i mean all of you” going to keep on being a smartas.s srsly guys, STFU ANF GTFO my thread. id rather have zero replys then your replys.

Again the stated above isnt directed to anyone in this thread or posting in any of my threads .

Its just a heads up.

Peace[/quote]

The ungratefullness of some people is amazing. People actually complain about receiving FREE advice from people more knowledgable than them. Hilarious.

15

1.calories in calories out is a dated paradigm.

2.watch some Gary Taubes clips on youtube and read some Shelby Starnes articles here.

3.Drop the attitude.

16

[quote]kinetics.1981 wrote:
em, this diet regime is very interesting, i did the math on calories on these food, i tried to be as accurate as possible. all this and i didnt even break the 2100 calories[/quote]
Even if those numbers were accurate (I’m not sure they are), you make it sound like 2,100-ish high protein, low carb calories isn’t an appropriate plan for fat loss when we’re dealing with a guy who has kinda high bodyfat and no major muscle. It most likely is. And if it isn’t, which would become clear the first week or two, adjustments can and should be made.

no idea what is this[/quote]
It’s a 400+ calorie workout shake on training days. Which brings up a good point… what are you doing for workout nutrition?

[quote]total of all the above

430+131+289+340+376+465=2031

If my math is wrong here please someone point it out[/quote]
Re-read the section in the article “What About Macros?” Don’t sweat the details like tracking calories, because, if you do it right, it’s kinda idiot-proof.

Also, you do realize that this is just a sample day, you’re not trying to eat these exact meals every single day, right?

17

After thinking about it yesterday, i decided to stick whatever am doing, dont wanna keep on jumping from one diet to another.

Im including carbs in my food, ~ 30% on nontraining days and 50% on training ones. all low glycemic and brown ,whole wheat.lets see on day 20 what changes , and ill post again here asking for advise.

prework out meal if its HIIT, is 1 tbs of honey and 3 dates

Prework out meal if its weightlifting , 15 pieces of almonds and an apple

[quote]**************
Re-read the section in the article “What About Macros?” Don’t sweat the details like tracking calories, because, if you do it right, it’s kinda idiot-proof.**************[/quote]

understood

hahah, yes sir i know