Gabby Reece on Being Submissive

Off Topic
161

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Question for our married members: Say there’s a tornado, like the one in Oklahoma yesterday, and your family needs to be evacuated from danger quickly. Who makes that decision and executes the evacuation procedures?

Be honest. [/quote]

I do because she panics in such situations. She however makes more of the financial decisions, but we discuss it first.
[/quote]

And if you had to quantify the two, which would be the more important decision?

I can go on. If an intruder breaks into the house, who is charged with protecting the family?

If someone is threatening your family with harm, which of you faces up to the situation? Her? Do you discuss it first?

I’m not being cute, I think you know me well enough to know that. I’m attempting to demonstrate that, when the shit hits the fan, the man is USUALLY the one whom both parties agree will be charged with the duty of rectifying or at least dealing with the situation.

Finances are home buying decisions are all well and good, but you show me which partner jumps in front of the rest of his family when a grizzly bear approaches and I’ll show you the final decision maker of that family.[/quote]

A slightly bigger than normal, angry, adult, male grizzly?[/quote]

Haha, but of course.

Now, when the same bear faces off against 100 men, the bear will almost certainly win unless those men address their leadership problem post-haste.

Christopher Lambert said it best: There can be only one!
[/quote]

That’s what children are for, to throw to the bear so we can escape.

What you are describing is exceedingly rare. If this is how you define your relationship fine, but I don’t believe that is what the discussion is about. Does my wife defer to me when attacked by a cave bear? Yes, because I am bigger, stronger and calmer under pressure. Would I presume to tell her she can’t have a dog? Not on your life.[/quote]

And most wouldn’t because we are supposed to love our wives as we love ourselves, and if given the opportunity to make them happy ,even if it goes against our personal preference, and without a serious reason not too, we will do what we can to make them such. Just because you make a decision that has solely for the benefit of your does not mean that you are not the decision maker, it just means that you are a decent husband.[/quote]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. First off, the bible means almost nothing to me except for some cool parables. Who am I to decide what she can or cannot do? I can voice my opinion or displeasure, but in the end I do not make decisions for her. We do come to a consensus nearly universally but I really can’t say that I am dominate over her.
[/quote]

I kinda already knew that about you and the bible hence why I left out the as “Christ loved the Church” part, however, the love your wife as much as you love yourself seems to be a fairly widely held standard in industrialized civilization regardless of religion so I went with that. And I don’t control my wife either. She is free to do whatever she chooses and I cant stop her. It is a choice she made after I earned her respect and trust to allow herself to “follow my lead”.

But I have said all this before so Agree to disagree.

162

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
but you show me which partner jumps in front of the rest of his family when a grizzly bear approaches and I’ll show you the final decision maker of that family.[/quote]

So, in the end, it’s physical strength that determines who is the “final decision maker”?

Wouldn’t it be more likely that a situation that REQUIRES more physical strength would be handled by the male? I’m just not seeing how that determines that he is the final decision maker.

Are you saying that since you have greater physical strength, then no matter what your wife wants, the threat of physical domination is what makes you the final decision maker? [/quote]

That’s part of it but it certainly does not encompass all of it. Strength is only one component of our innate biological differences, which are all connected. I will explain but it will have to be tomorrow. 3am here and my alarm clock is set for 7:30.

Ugh. [/quote]

Lol - yea I always forget you’re in Japan.

But I suppose that is really a lot of what it’s about. I mean, how does anyone get their way - when all reason, arguing and logic still leaves you with someone unwilling to budge?

Physical dominance. If you are stronger, then a threat - or even implied threat - of violence and physical harm will almost always make the other person submit - and considering that 99% of males are stronger than their female partners - well you get the picture. Of course, I would never physically threaten my wife, but in the end, when push comes to shove, I could. And if I was willing to seriously harm, or kill her, then she’d submit. Not much choice.

That said, I can’t imagine that isn’t a big component of being the final decision maker. As for me personally, we share decisions. I give some, I take some. She gives some, she takes some. I really wouldn’t ever think of myself in those terms. But in the end, while my wife is an extremely strong person, she does have some affection for the traditional roles of male/female - especially physically.

164

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
but you show me which partner jumps in front of the rest of his family when a grizzly bear approaches and I’ll show you the final decision maker of that family.[/quote]

So, in the end, it’s physical strength that determines who is the “final decision maker”?

Wouldn’t it be more likely that a situation that REQUIRES more physical strength would be handled by the male? I’m just not seeing how that determines that he is the final decision maker.

Are you saying that since you have greater physical strength, then no matter what your wife wants, the threat of physical domination is what makes you the final decision maker? [/quote]

I think this played a part in the origination of the male being the head of the family, although these days it certainly plays less of a role.

That being said, the funny part is that I continuously remind my wife how much bigger and stronger I am than her when we’re play fighting over something neither of us really cares about. “Sweetheart, just remember I’m bigger and stronger than you and can punch your head clean off your body. Now go do the dishes.”

166

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Question for our married members: Say there’s a tornado, like the one in Oklahoma yesterday, and your family needs to be evacuated from danger quickly. Who makes that decision and executes the evacuation procedures?

Be honest. [/quote]

I do because she panics in such situations. She however makes more of the financial decisions, but we discuss it first.
[/quote]

And if you had to quantify the two, which would be the more important decision?

I can go on. If an intruder breaks into the house, who is charged with protecting the family?

If someone is threatening your family with harm, which of you faces up to the situation? Her? Do you discuss it first?

I’m not being cute, I think you know me well enough to know that. I’m attempting to demonstrate that, when the shit hits the fan, the man is USUALLY the one whom both parties agree will be charged with the duty of rectifying or at least dealing with the situation.

Finances are home buying decisions are all well and good, but you show me which partner jumps in front of the rest of his family when a grizzly bear approaches and I’ll show you the final decision maker of that family.[/quote]

A slightly bigger than normal, angry, adult, male grizzly?[/quote]

Haha, but of course.

Now, when the same bear faces off against 100 men, the bear will almost certainly win unless those men address their leadership problem post-haste.

Christopher Lambert said it best: There can be only one!
[/quote]

That’s what children are for, to throw to the bear so we can escape.

What you are describing is exceedingly rare. If this is how you define your relationship fine, but I don’t believe that is what the discussion is about. Does my wife defer to me when attacked by a cave bear? Yes, because I am bigger, stronger and calmer under pressure. Would I presume to tell her she can’t have a dog? Not on your life.[/quote]

And most wouldn’t because we are supposed to love our wives as we love ourselves, and if given the opportunity to make them happy ,even if it goes against our personal preference, and without a serious reason not too, we will do what we can to make them such. Just because you make a decision that has solely for the benefit of your does not mean that you are not the decision maker, it just means that you are a decent husband.[/quote]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. First off, the bible means almost nothing to me except for some cool parables. Who am I to decide what she can or cannot do? I can voice my opinion or displeasure, but in the end I do not make decisions for her. We do come to a consensus nearly universally but I really can’t say that I am dominate over her.
[/quote]

I kinda already knew that about you and the bible hence why I left out the as “Christ loved the Church” part, however, the love your wife as much as you love yourself seems to be a fairly widely held standard in industrialized civilization regardless of religion so I went with that. And I don’t control my wife either. She is free to do whatever she chooses and I cant stop her. It is a choice she made after I earned her respect and trust to allow herself to “follow my lead”.

But I have said all this before so Agree to disagree.[/quote]

Bro hug!

167

This was a much more pleasant debate than the ones in the BSL forum usually end up being.

168

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

…I really can’t say that I am dominate over her.
[/quote]

If you honestly don’t know the chances are fair to good that she is dominate.

Captain and First Officer are good analogies. Both share many decision making situations with oftentimes the F.O. making the majority of them when speaking of sheer numbers. But the captain is indeed the captain and if he must make a decision that conflicts with one made by the F.O. but realizes he’s just another officer on a committee then…and this happens consistently over time…fatal times are ahead, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

If the captain doesn’t even know for sure if he really is the captain chances are he’s not.

This dynamic has proved its effectiveness for millenia. We really aren’t some bold, new, innovative society that has somehow figured out that basic, innate practices are all of a sudden anachronistic and to be discarded.

Also your professed contempt for the Bible is telling but still essentially a non sequitur.[/quote]

Nonsense

169

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

I think this played a part in the origination of the male being the head of the family, although these days it certainly plays less of a role.

[/quote]

Not unlike the male’s ability to provide for his wife and her offspring (e.g. be the breadwinner) ? :wink:

170

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

…I really can’t say that I am dominate over her.
[/quote]

If you honestly don’t know the chances are fair to good that she is dominate.

Captain and First Officer are good analogies. Both share many decision making situations with oftentimes the F.O. making the majority of them when speaking of sheer numbers. But the captain is indeed the captain and if he must make a decision that conflicts with one made by the F.O. but realizes he’s just another officer on a committee then…and this happens consistently over time…fatal times are ahead, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

If the captain doesn’t even know for sure if he really is the captain chances are he’s not.

This dynamic has proved its effectiveness for millenia. We really aren’t some bold, new, innovative society that has somehow figured out that basic, innate practices are all of a sudden anachronistic and to be discarded.

Also your professed contempt for the Bible is telling but still essentially a non sequitur.[/quote]

Nonsense
[/quote]

I actually have the inclination that you are the dominant one but you are unwilling to put that label on it because it invokes the negative connotations in your mind that we were referring to earlier. And I could be wrong on all counts just my guess from the very limited window of this thread.

171

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

…I really can’t say that I am dominate over her.
[/quote]

If you honestly don’t know the chances are fair to good that she is dominate.

Captain and First Officer are good analogies. Both share many decision making situations with oftentimes the F.O. making the majority of them when speaking of sheer numbers. But the captain is indeed the captain and if he must make a decision that conflicts with one made by the F.O. but realizes he’s just another officer on a committee then…and this happens consistently over time…fatal times are ahead, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

If the captain doesn’t even know for sure if he really is the captain chances are he’s not.

This dynamic has proved its effectiveness for millenia. We really aren’t some bold, new, innovative society that has somehow figured out that basic, innate practices are all of a sudden anachronistic and to be discarded.

Also your professed contempt for the Bible is telling but still essentially a non sequitur.[/quote]

Nonsense
[/quote]

I actually have the inclination that you are the dominant one but you are unwilling to put that label on it because it invokes the negative connotations in your mind that we were referring to earlier. And I could be wrong on all counts just my guess from the very limited window of this thread.[/quote]

I am reluctant to label it. To me it just is, without the need of a label. Sometimes I am more dominant, sometimes she is, depending on the issue.

174

Seven pages. Wow. I can’t keep up. Thanks so much. And some people have made some really thoughtful responses.

I’m sifting through and will try to respond to more as I have time.

I expected that this thread had the potential to just turn toward S&M, so some of the tangents were surprising.

Snap - I appreciate your matter-of-fact and calm response. You are always like that, even when you talk lifting, and I appreciate how much you will try to help and encourage other women.

Ninja - Thanks for chiming in, even if you may not agree with me on this one. I had a hard time paying attention to what you were saying because I was distracted by your quads. Is that you, or someone you admire? If it’s you, then you need to start logging to I can lurk ya.

Deb - I’ve agreed with you before, and I’ll agree with you again - Just not on this thread. :slight_smile: I try to be civil, and friendly even on the internet. If I misinterpreted your tone, then I apologize. A lot is lost in this form of communication. I’d guess that this might be very different if we were all sitting in a room together. You’ve mentioned that you feel like an outlier in some respects, regarding gender roles. I don’t assume that everything applies to every individual, at least in the exact same way. I’ll reserve judgement about what Gabby meant for after I read the book.

Steeley - I think we all know that you belong barefoot and in La Cucina. :slight_smile: Get back in there an make something that fits my macros.

175

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Seven pages. Wow. I can’t keep up. Thanks so much. And some people have made some really thoughtful responses.

I’m sifting through and will try to respond to more as I have time.

I expected that this thread had the potential to just turn toward S[/quote]

Good topic Powerpuff. It was a very interesting discussion for me at least. I, like you, also expected it to devolve into name calling and gifs but it stayed pretty civil.

176

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

I expected that this thread had the potential to just turn toward S[/quote]

Oh, don’t worry - it still does… ; )

177

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

I am reluctant to label it. To me it just is, without the need of a label. Sometimes I am more dominant, sometimes she is, depending on the issue.
[/quote]

Who has final decision making ability in areas of diametric disagreement?

Bpick might very well be correct in that you really are dominant but “reluctant to label it” as such. Why the reluctance? Is it a subconscious attempt to maintain political correctness?[/quote]

Could you give an example? We really have not run into that.

I just don’t feel it needs a label. Call it what you will it just all seems so antiquated.

178

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

…I really can’t say that I am dominate over her.
[/quote]

If you honestly don’t know the chances are fair to good that she is dominate.

Captain and First Officer are good analogies. Both share many decision making situations with oftentimes the F.O. making the majority of them when speaking of sheer numbers. But the captain is indeed the captain and if he must make a decision that conflicts with one made by the F.O. but realizes he’s just another officer on a committee then…and this happens consistently over time…fatal times are ahead, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

If the captain doesn’t even know for sure if he really is the captain chances are he’s not.

This dynamic has proved its effectiveness for millenia. We really aren’t some bold, new, innovative society that has somehow figured out that basic, innate practices are all of a sudden anachronistic and to be discarded.

Also your professed contempt for the Bible is telling but still essentially a non sequitur.[/quote]

Nonsense
[/quote]

Very eloquent.
[/quote]

All that it deserved.

179

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
I am reluctant to label it. To me it just is, without the need of a label. Sometimes I am more dominant, sometimes she is, depending on the issue.
[/quote]

This. I just see it as utterly unnecessary.

It just doesn’t really matter as far as I’m concerned.

Thing is, we are well suited to each other. We want the same things, we have the same goals (and always have) - we’re just on the same page 99% of the time, so that sort of power jockeying just isn’t required in our relationship.

180

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Seven pages. Wow. I can’t keep up. Thanks so much. And some people have made some really thoughtful responses.

I’m sifting through and will try to respond to more as I have time.

I expected that this thread had the potential to just turn toward S[/quote]

Good topic Powerpuff. It was a very interesting discussion for me at least. I, like you, also expected it to devolve into name calling and gifs but it stayed pretty civil.[/quote]

Thank you. I edited my post above. Somehow got chopped up when I was trying to submit. You brought some scriptures into it, which won’t resonate with everyone. Still, I think everyone can understand The Golden Rule aspect of that. Western civilization was based on a Judeo Christian history, and so to imagine that we are functioning outside of that is unrealistic, regardless of our individual religious beliefs. That much we can all agree on.