[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
Seven pages. Wow. I can’t keep up. Thanks so much. And some people have made some really thoughtful responses.
I’m sifting through and will try to respond to more as I have time.
I expected that this thread had the potential to just turn toward S&M, so some of the tangents were surprising.
Snap - I appreciate your matter-of-fact and calm response. You are always like that, even when you talk lifting, and I appreciate how much you will try to help and encourage other women.
Ninja - Thanks for chiming in, even if you may not agree with me on this one. I had a hard time paying attention to what you were saying because I was distracted by your quads. Is that you, or someone you admire? If it’s you, then you need to start logging to I can lurk ya.
Deb - I’ve agreed with you before, and I’ll agree with you again - Just not on this thread. I try to be civil, and friendly even on the internet. If I misinterpreted your tone, then I apologize. A lot is lost in this form of communication. I’d guess that this might be very different if we were all sitting in a room together. You’ve mentioned that you feel like an outlier in some respects, regarding gender roles. I don’t assume that everything applies to every individual, at least in the exact same way. I’ll reserve judgement about what Gabby meant for after I read the book.
Steeley - I think we all know that you belong barefoot and in La Cucina. Get back in there an make something that fits my macros. [/quote]
Posting again because it was chopped off the first time.
I am reluctant to label it. To me it just is, without the need of a label. Sometimes I am more dominant, sometimes she is, depending on the issue.
[/quote]
Who has final decision making ability in areas of diametric disagreement?
Bpick might very well be correct in that you really are dominant but “reluctant to label it” as such. Why the reluctance? Is it a subconscious attempt to maintain political correctness?[/quote]
Could you give an example? We really have not run into that.
I just don’t feel it needs a label. Call it what you will it just all seems so antiquated.
[/quote]
You want to move and feel that real estate prices are as good as they will ever be in your community and have potential to drop drastically, your wife wants to stay put because of sentimental reasons. Who is going to make that call?
I am reluctant to label it. To me it just is, without the need of a label. Sometimes I am more dominant, sometimes she is, depending on the issue.
[/quote]
Who has final decision making ability in areas of diametric disagreement?
Bpick might very well be correct in that you really are dominant but “reluctant to label it” as such. Why the reluctance? Is it a subconscious attempt to maintain political correctness?[/quote]
Could you give an example? We really have not run into that.
I just don’t feel it needs a label. Call it what you will it just all seems so antiquated.
[/quote]
You want to move and feel that real estate prices are as good as they will ever be in your community and have potential to drop drastically, your wife wants to stay put because of sentimental reasons. Who is going to make that call?[/quote]
I am going through this right now myself. My wife submitted to me wanting to sell the house and move to one that fits our family. It will make her commute go from 5 mins to probably an hour, but she is willing to do it because she trusts that I will make the right decision.
My new goal is to get enough passive income so she can retire or move to a hospital closer to where we live and work part time. I have a plan and she sees that plan coming to fruition so she trusts me.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Thing is, we are well suited to each other. We want the same things, we have the same goals (and always have) - we’re just on the same page 99% of the time, so that sort of power jockeying just isn’t required in our relationship. [/quote]
For the people describing this as “power jockeying” or “power and conflict”, I’m afraid you’re still misunderstanding what we’re trying to convey, which could be as much our fault, but there is a definite misunderstanding going on.
I’m not one to label it much, either, to be honest. I never refer to my wife as “submitting” to me or anything like that, but as has been mentioned, it seems to be the best terms we have to describe a relationship dynamic succinctly.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Thing is, we are well suited to each other. We want the same things, we have the same goals (and always have) - we’re just on the same page 99% of the time, so that sort of power jockeying just isn’t required in our relationship. [/quote]
For the people describing this as “power jockeying” or “power and conflict”, I’m afraid you’re still misunderstanding what we’re trying to convey, which could be as much our fault, but there is a definite misunderstanding going on.
I’m not one to label it much, either, to be honest. I never refer to my wife as “submitting” to me or anything like that, but as has been mentioned, it seems to be the best terms we have to describe a relationship dynamic succinctly. [/quote]
I really don’t think it’s misunderstanding - just the personal viewpoint each of us has on it, and for me personally, any kind of label is unimportant.
Like the house thing mentioned earlier - it seems that decision was made by both parties - not really that his wife submitted to his opinion, but in discussing it together, they both came to the conclusion that it would be the right move to make for both of them, for various reasons.
So the USS Testy1prise is sitting in orbit around the planet Lansing.
You, the captain, get a job offer in another state. You feel strongly compelled to take the job because it’s best for your starship in your eyes.
She, the first officer, likes the local schools for the kids, the close Walmart, her social circle, and bananas are always cheaper in Lansing vs where your new job is. Thus she is adamantly opposed to the move.
Where does the ship go?
[/quote]
I just went through this. While #2 isn’t ‘adamantly opposed’ (just a little resistant) to moving the USS SteelyD to the South, the fact that “Capt. D” is the chosen breadwinner and that’s where the opportunity is, the ship is-a-headin south. That means, she, “Leut.D”, is selling her business and herding up the kids for the big move.
It wasn’t submissive, per se, but the fact that her choices have put her in a position to not be able to support the family where she lives means that she has ceded, to some extent, her leverage.
Using those terms makes it sound a little forced, which it’s not, but in the big picture, there’s really not much choice when life deals you a particular situation/opportunity.
Not true in my case at this point in my life. My children are my priority. My career is an afterthought.[/quote]
In some respects, this is an example of submissiveness. If we define dominance as asserting one’s will over another (including, but not limited to making the decisions), then submission is subverting your will, or wants and needs, to those of others willingly. In this case, while your career would probably be personally rewarding, if I am reading your previous post correctly, then you submitted to what you perceived as the needs of your family.
Submissiveness is a mark of humility. In submitting to some authority (whether real or perceived), we are recognizing something greater than ourselves. In the successful relationships I’ve been around, including my own marriage, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. This means that despite our own individual personalities, we recognize that the relationship is bigger, and ultimately more important, than ourselves (which you most definitely recognize as a mother). You may not be submissive to the person of your husband, but you are submissive to the needs of the family.
In some respects, this is an example of submissiveness. If we define dominance as asserting one’s will over another (including, but not limited to making the decisions), then submission is subverting your will, or wants and needs, to those of others willingly. In this case, while your career would probably be personally rewarding, if I am reading your previous post correctly, then you submitted to what you perceived as the needs of your family.
Submissiveness is a mark of humility. In submitting to some authority (whether real or perceived), we are recognizing something greater than ourselves. In the successful relationships I’ve been around, including my own marriage, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. This means that despite our own individual personalities, we recognize that the relationship is bigger, and ultimately more important, than ourselves (which you most definitely recognize as a mother). You may not be submissive to the person of your husband, but you are submissive to the needs of the family.
[/quote]
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Question for our married members: Say there’s a tornado, like the one in Oklahoma yesterday, and your family needs to be evacuated from danger quickly. Who makes that decision and executes the evacuation procedures?
Be honest. [/quote]
I would say which one of us that saw the news report and requested evacuation would be the one that sparked the activity, but I doubt there would be much if any disagreement.
Time between knowledge that we had to go and when we had to be out by would determine how we split up tasks. But she would pack shit and dress the kids, I would secure the house as best as possible and pack the car.
Not true in my case at this point in my life. My children are my priority. My career is an afterthought.[/quote]
In some respects, this is an example of submissiveness. If we define dominance as asserting one’s will over another (including, but not limited to making the decisions), then submission is subverting your will, or wants and needs, to those of others willingly. In this case, while your career would probably be personally rewarding, if I am reading your previous post correctly, then you submitted to what you perceived as the needs of your family.
Submissiveness is a mark of humility. In submitting to some authority (whether real or perceived), we are recognizing something greater than ourselves. In the successful relationships I’ve been around, including my own marriage, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. This means that despite our own individual personalities, we recognize that the relationship is bigger, and ultimately more important, than ourselves (which you most definitely recognize as a mother). You may not be submissive to the person of your husband, but you are submissive to the needs of the family.
[/quote]
In that case, I think we’re all submissive. I mean, there are times when I just want to strangle my wife, or maybe punch her head clean off her body, but I submit to the relationship’s desire to have her live.
Not true in my case at this point in my life. My children are my priority. My career is an afterthought.[/quote]
In some respects, this is an example of submissiveness.
[/quote]
How is it submissive if it was my choice?
I suppose if you define mothering as “submissive,” then yes, because mothering certainly requires putting the needs of the children ahead of your own much of the time. But doesn’t the father as breadwinner do the same? Is there anyone who never puts someone else’s needs/wants above their own at some time in their life? Using this definition, we’re all submissive at times. Just like we’re all dominant at times. Which has been my point all along.
Interesting how different people in this thread define the dominant partner based on physical strength or earning power or who makes the decisions regarding topics deemed more important . . . we all seem to have different ideas here.
I do think most couples view themselves as a partnership. Of course, nothing in life is perfectly even. But most couples I know have discussions and make decisions together. Sometimes his points win out. Other times hers do.
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
I do think most couples view themselves as a partnership. Of course, nothing in life is perfectly even. But most couples I know have discussions and make decisions together. Sometimes his points win out. Other times hers do. [/quote]
Yea that’s pretty much the size of it - as far as I’m concerned.
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
How is it submissive if it was my choice?[/quote]
My wife chooses to “submit” to me and she is free to not at anytime. This is not something she just gave to me because I was a man. I had to earn it. She chooses to follow my lead even when she disagrees because I have proven that she can trust me to do what I think is best. And because she has given me that trust, she pushes me to constantly better myself. Also she will let me know if she thinks my decision is being made for selfish reasons. But the final decision is ultimately mine. Usually if she says something like that, she is probably spot on though.
I try to be civil, and friendly even on the internet. If I misinterpreted your tone, then I apologize. A lot is lost in this form of communication. I’d guess that this might be very different if we were all sitting in a room together. You’ve mentioned that you feel like an outlier in some respects, regarding gender roles. I don’t assume that everything applies to every individual, at least in the exact same way. I’ll reserve judgement about what Gabby meant for after I read the book.