I’m not sure if this topic will find a huge audience here, but why not
Yesterday, the Wnbf announced that it would allow its Pros to compete in other natural/tested federations contests. Something that it has always forbade. Additionally, the release stated that other Federations’ Pro competitors, who provide proof of their status, and submit to Polygraph and Urinialysis on the day of a show, will have their status honored and be allowed to compete as Pros in Wnbf shows.
It has long been the federation’s practice to keep their athletes apart from the rest of the seemingly endless smaller federations that keep popping up, in what I always assumed was their goal of maintaining the status as the largest, and most commonly known natural federation. While I kind of understood the stance when there was a magazine out on newstands every month featuring their top athletes, it hasn’t been published in a couple of years, and it kind of seemed foolish to prevent further publicity for the sport as a whole.
When I turned Pro, I had 6 pages of documents I had to sign, basically acknowledging that I would face penalties should I compete at, judge, or even assist another federation with a contest. Also, there were stipulations about appearing in print, which has in the past led to some very well known competitors being banned (a practice that has always drawn the ire of other competitors).
I guess I’m just sort of wondering aloud what effect (good or bad) this will have for the natural/tested side of the sport.
I’ve seen (been at) some laughable contests from smaller federations, and while it’s not always the case, some of their “pros” wouldn’t even place at an average Inbf show. Will this water down the quality of Natural Pros? Has it already done so?I look at the crazy # of MPD and Bikini Pros in the Ifbb, and while it seems like every other guy I meet on Long Island is an “Ifbb Pro”, not too many look impressive in the least. Are we going down that path?
[quote]Myosin wrote:
Natural shows will slowly fade out, but not away.
The creation of Men’s Physique in the NPC & IFFB has taken and will continue to take a large chunk of the ‘natural’ bodybuilding crowd.[/quote]
Aren’t they untested?[/quote]
You are correct, but I would guess that a large number of Men’s Physique competitors are those that are either genetically “un-gifted” for bodybuilding, are not willing to take the amount of drugs needed to have success in bodybuilding or those that hate training legs (or all of the above).
Mind you, there is nothing wrong with any of that and that is not to say that drugs are not involve in this division especially at the higher levels of competition. Many amateur shows are now have more Physique competitors than bodybuilders as many see this sort of body much more attainable than what is now required in bodybuilding beyond a small show level.
All that coupled with the lack of access to tested shows without significant travel for many and the additional costs for a promoter to run a tested show adds up to a very steep uphill battle for natural bodybuilding.
[quote]Myosin wrote:
Natural shows will slowly fade out, but not away.
The creation of Men’s Physique in the NPC & IFFB has taken and will continue to take a large chunk of the ‘natural’ bodybuilding crowd.[/quote]
Aren’t they untested?[/quote]
You are correct, but I would guess that a large number of Men’s Physique competitors are those that are either genetically “un-gifted” for bodybuilding, are not willing to take the amount of drugs needed to have success in bodybuilding or those that hate training legs (or all of the above).
Mind you, there is nothing wrong with any of that and that is not to say that drugs are not involve in this division especially at the higher levels of competition. Many amateur shows are now have more Physique competitors than bodybuilders as many see this sort of body much more attainable than what is now required in bodybuilding beyond a small show level.
All that coupled with the lack of access to tested shows without significant travel for many and the additional costs for a promoter to run a tested show adds up to a very steep uphill battle for natural bodybuilding.
[/quote]
I don’t know, I don’t follow it as closely as a lot of people here (yourself included), but I just feel like the only appeal to natural bodybuilding is the fact that everyone is natural (or the show is tested, however you’d like to phrase it). That is completely lost in physique as I think many (including myself) operate under the assumption that physique competitors do not fall in the natural category.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I don’t know, I don’t follow it as closely as a lot of people here (yourself included), but I just feel like the only appeal to natural bodybuilding is the fact that everyone is natural (or the show is tested, however you’d like to phrase it). That is completely lost in physique as I think many (including myself) operate under the assumption that physique competitors do not fall in the natural category. [/quote]
There are those with that mindset, natural shows are clean and the competition is fair. I think most of us start out like this and then either stay there or move to different shades of grey. This meaning that many people are willing to do X but not Y or Z to win and then hold up their choice as a moral victory. A good example would be the popular oral prohormones of a few years back and even today. Many are willing to take a pill vs stick themselves with a needle for an edge and somehow its better.
I am a supporter of natural bodybuilding and would advise most people to steer clear of drugs, but I am also realistic about the sport and people. Everyone is looking to win and they will do everything they can to make that happen, some more than others.
Also it is kind of like the NBA & WNBA. Everyone knows that the WNBA has great athletes, but no one buys tickets or watches the games on TV. The popularity of the NBA keeps the WNBA afloat. Basically, we are a subculture of a subculture. The creation is the Men’s Physique class is a dagger to natural shows.
[quote]Myosin wrote:
The creation is the Men’s Physique class is a dagger to natural shows.[/quote]
I’ve echoed this exact thinking. When going to the typical NPC show these days, you’ll see bodybuilders alright, but then you’ll have to sit through countless MPD competitors. So many that they’ll have to line 'em up on both sides of the stage, alternating who’s up front being assessed by the judging panel.
At this level (untested), I imagine that there are a few possible reasons as to why this is the case. Some might be: (and none of this is meant to be disparaging!)
-Easier to develop the level of musculature needed to compete
-Training legs is damn hard -lol
-There have been a good number of guys to turn pro who barely even look like they train, just cut a bit, have a nice pretty boy look, and smile.
-Even if you’re going to make use of PEDs (and most likely you are if you’re serious), you won’t have to go as crazy as some of the NPC level bodybuilders tend to.
With the natural shows, and I’ve been to 2 just in the last month, it can go either way. At one very small show, there weren’t even enough bodybuilders to have the full spectrum of open weight classes, but there were plenty of physique guys. At the other (a well known, fairly large contest), there was one physique class, but plenty of bodybuilders to easily fill the expected divisions with more than enough competition.
While I’ve personally done well as a natty bodybuilder, I realize that I’m not passing for an IFBB guy at any time. Still, I have a hard time with the notion that NPC physique competitors look like natural bodybuilders. Yes, there are some natty pros who despite being shredded all to hell, seem to have left their muscles at home, but there are also some very thick, and very conditioned natty pros that no one is going to mistake for a physique competitor, even an enhanced one. (Obviously I’m generalizing here, because there are some MPD pros who IMO could have been very good bodybuilders if they wanted)
I don’t get the allure of Men’s Physique. Anyone can get a body to compete there barring a brain tumor… and even then it’s probably possible! So what the f***?
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
I don’t get the allure of Men’s Physique. Anyone can get a body to compete there barring a brain tumor… and even then it’s probably possible! So what the f***?[/quote]
This just isn’t true.
The top Physique guys are insanely built. They diet down for a specific look, even sacrificing some muscle to attain it. To say that anyone would could get a body that would be competitive is disingenuous and not true.
If that was the case there would be tons of dudes stacked in every gym who could place in Men’s Physique. Hell, there would be even more guys on this site who could and there are VERY few.
I get it, this is the bodybuilding section and bashing physique is cool or whatever but your statement just isn’t true.
Stu, I think the answer to your question is exposure. They want more exposure by:
A. Letting you guys (their pros) compete at other shows. When you compete and do well that looks good on you as well as them.
B. letting other guys compete in their shows brings in more money, more viewers and more money
I think that they realize that they cannot afford to be so exclusive and that by opening things up they’ll get bigger shows, bigger sponsors, more competitors, more “fans” and ultimately make more $$$
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
I don’t get the allure of Men’s Physique. Anyone can get a body to compete there barring a brain tumor… and even then it’s probably possible! So what the f***?[/quote]
This just isn’t true.
The top Physique guys are insanely built. They diet down for a specific look, even sacrificing some muscle to attain it. To say that anyone would could get a body that would be competitive is disingenuous and not true.
If that was the case there would be tons of dudes stacked in every gym who could place in Men’s Physique. Hell, there would be even more guys on this site who could and there are VERY few.
I get it, this is the bodybuilding section and bashing physique is cool or whatever but your statement just isn’t true.[/quote]
When I say anyone, I mean anyone who puts in the work. In bodybuilding, you can put in the work and get a pretty damn good physique but it takes a special level of dedication to get to the top. Compare the top people in men’s physique and then pro bodybuilding… which one do you think takes more work and dedication? The sheer level of training and diet in pro bodybuilding is way above men’s physique in my opinion.
This is a top Men’s Physique Competitor, btw. Not easily achievable IMO.
Also this could be good for natty feds. I mean natty BB’ing is such a small event/sport anyways. The last thing it should do is have feds that are so exclusive that it divides the sport even more. If the drug testing is still effective, and it gets a better pool of talent to compete on the same stage, I think it could be a good thing.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
I don’t get the allure of Men’s Physique. Anyone can get a body to compete there barring a brain tumor… and even then it’s probably possible! So what the f***?[/quote]
This just isn’t true.
The top Physique guys are insanely built. They diet down for a specific look, even sacrificing some muscle to attain it. To say that anyone would could get a body that would be competitive is disingenuous and not true.
If that was the case there would be tons of dudes stacked in every gym who could place in Men’s Physique. Hell, there would be even more guys on this site who could and there are VERY few.
I get it, this is the bodybuilding section and bashing physique is cool or whatever but your statement just isn’t true.[/quote]
When I say anyone, I mean anyone who puts in the work. In bodybuilding, you can put in the work and get a pretty damn good physique but it takes a special level of dedication to get to the top. Compare the top people in men’s physique and then pro bodybuilding… which one do you think takes more work and dedication? The sheer level of training and diet in pro bodybuilding is way above men’s physique in my opinion.
[/quote]
Please show us pictures of the men’s physique you were able to obtain just by putting in the work.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
I don’t get the allure of Men’s Physique. Anyone can get a body to compete there barring a brain tumor… and even then it’s probably possible! So what the f***?[/quote]
This just isn’t true.
The top Physique guys are insanely built. They diet down for a specific look, even sacrificing some muscle to attain it. To say that anyone would could get a body that would be competitive is disingenuous and not true.
If that was the case there would be tons of dudes stacked in every gym who could place in Men’s Physique. Hell, there would be even more guys on this site who could and there are VERY few.
I get it, this is the bodybuilding section and bashing physique is cool or whatever but your statement just isn’t true.[/quote]
When I say anyone, I mean anyone who puts in the work. In bodybuilding, you can put in the work and get a pretty damn good physique but it takes a special level of dedication to get to the top. Compare the top people in men’s physique and then pro bodybuilding… which one do you think takes more work and dedication? The sheer level of training and diet in pro bodybuilding is way above men’s physique in my opinion.
[/quote]
Please show us pictures of the men’s physique you were able to obtain just by putting in the work. [/quote]
x2
Aopocetx, I think you do not realize what goes into the too guys physiques. You seem to be ill informed.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
I don’t get the allure of Men’s Physique. Anyone can get a body to compete there barring a brain tumor… and even then it’s probably possible! So what the f***?[/quote]
This just isn’t true.
The top Physique guys are insanely built. They diet down for a specific look, even sacrificing some muscle to attain it. To say that anyone would could get a body that would be competitive is disingenuous and not true.
If that was the case there would be tons of dudes stacked in every gym who could place in Men’s Physique. Hell, there would be even more guys on this site who could and there are VERY few.
I get it, this is the bodybuilding section and bashing physique is cool or whatever but your statement just isn’t true.[/quote]
When I say anyone, I mean anyone who puts in the work. In bodybuilding, you can put in the work and get a pretty damn good physique but it takes a special level of dedication to get to the top. Compare the top people in men’s physique and then pro bodybuilding… which one do you think takes more work and dedication? The sheer level of training and diet in pro bodybuilding is way above men’s physique in my opinion.
[/quote]
Please show us pictures of the men’s physique you were able to obtain just by putting in the work. [/quote]
x2
Aopocetx, I think you do not realize what goes into the too guys physiques. You seem to be ill informed.[/quote]
I think it’s safe to say that IFBB physique competitors would be top 3 at any(or nearly any) NPC bodybuilding show.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
When I say anyone, I mean anyone who puts in the work. In bodybuilding, you can put in the work and get a pretty damn good physique but it takes a special level of dedication to get to the top.
[/quote]
Replace “dedication” with “genetics.” You aren’t becoming Mr. Olympia if you don’t have the right DNA, no matter how much work you put in.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
I don’t get the allure of Men’s Physique. Anyone can get a body to compete there barring a brain tumor… and even then it’s probably possible! So what the f***?[/quote]
This just isn’t true.
The top Physique guys are insanely built. They diet down for a specific look, even sacrificing some muscle to attain it. To say that anyone would could get a body that would be competitive is disingenuous and not true.
If that was the case there would be tons of dudes stacked in every gym who could place in Men’s Physique. Hell, there would be even more guys on this site who could and there are VERY few.
I get it, this is the bodybuilding section and bashing physique is cool or whatever but your statement just isn’t true.[/quote]
When I say anyone, I mean anyone who puts in the work. In bodybuilding, you can put in the work and get a pretty damn good physique but it takes a special level of dedication to get to the top. Compare the top people in men’s physique and then pro bodybuilding… which one do you think takes more work and dedication? The sheer level of training and diet in pro bodybuilding is way above men’s physique in my opinion.
[/quote]
Please show us pictures of the men’s physique you were able to obtain just by putting in the work. [/quote]
x2
Aopocetx, I think you do not realize what goes into the too guys physiques. You seem to be ill informed.[/quote]
I think it’s safe to say that IFBB physique competitors would be top 3 at any(or nearly any) NPC bodybuilding show. [/quote]
I think he would do alright…
