Full Body Training Doesn't Work?

Training Bodybuilding
181

Haha, I remember talking about wrist measurements and “hardgainerness” this time last year. Then C_C stepped in LOL.

Here’s an quote from one of the muscle prediction websites:

“although these formulae present lofty, but realistic, goals for most drug-free trainees, they are not meant to represent “limitations”. I’m not saying that no one can surpass that…”

Note to C_C - Could you critique this article:

www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

Especially the bits where it says about the results comparing to the top champions (natural bodybuilders)…in other words, if these formulas were totally bogus, then that means that any who surpass them would beat the current champions? Not trying to trip you up or anything, just interested to see your perspective on the matter :slight_smile:

E.g.

“…you also must realize that in the process of surpassing these predictions you are also surpassing the development of drug-free world champions. Very few people will have the genetic gifts to accomplish that. What the formulae give you is the lean body mass and full-body measurements that you’d need to achieve to be on an equal footing, size-wise, with current drug-free champions and the greats of the drug-free era.”

I think these formulas are a bit more up to date than the usual ones.

My 2 cents:

I don’t mean to sound negative but I think it would be EXTREMELY unusual to find a NATURAL guy with 6"-7" wrists who has 18"+ upper arms (lean - 8-10%) - if so, I’d love to see some pictures. This is usually found in “assisted” individuals - thin(ish) forearms with very large upper arms. Obviously, the forearms are still big though…just not in proportion to the upper arms (unless maybe the individual puts special emphasis on his forearm training?).

Even Reg Park with his good genetics only just got past 18" on his arms. I don’t know what his wrist measurements were, but assuming that since his neck was 18" lean acording to that artical (a lot larger than people with small wrists), he probably had 7"+ wrists.

182

[quote]Thy. wrote:
So don’t make automatic conclusions about me because I write this. You don’t know me and don’t know how I train. I really put my best in this thing. I think about it all the time (even to the point where I think it’s not right, I’ve got to think about actual life more). I deadlift till I’m barely conscious. I try to eat a lot, but once I do that, my weak stomach doesn’t take it. I go throw out and it’s fucked up for several days and I eat even less than before. No, this muscle-building thing is not for me. My body is giving me every signal it got about this. But I try…

[/quote]

then stop giving advice to people who don’t have as shitty genetics as you.

183

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
Thy. wrote:
So don’t make automatic conclusions about me because I write this. You don’t know me and don’t know how I train. I really put my best in this thing. I think about it all the time (even to the point where I think it’s not right, I’ve got to think about actual life more). I deadlift till I’m barely conscious. I try to eat a lot, but once I do that, my weak stomach doesn’t take it. I go throw out and it’s fucked up for several days and I eat even less than before. No, this muscle-building thing is not for me. My body is giving me every signal it got about this. But I try…

then stop giving advice to people who don’t have as shitty genetics as you.[/quote]

“Shitty” more likely applies to your brain, because you’re saying nonsense that never happenned.

184

[quote]Kanada wrote:
i take issue with your claims of below average genetics. in my limited time working out, and playin the mentor to other people who had never weight trained before, there is no such thing as below average genetics. just intelligent training[/quote]

I use this term pretty loosely - I simply mean those who have to pay special attention to calorie intake etc (one’s who naturally tend to have poor appetite)…and ones who are very weak/thin who need to get their lifts up quickly (i.e. via more frequent training). Like I keep stressing, the full body routine (in my opinion) is not for long term - just something to bring up the lifts quickly in a very weak individual.

The routine is only good as long as the strength gains are coming quickly (which also requires very high calorie intake…otherwise the full body workout simply becomes a “fitness type” workout where just a little muscle is gained and bodyfat is lost)

185

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:

Good post, but I think you’re wasting your breath. This guy is never going to see the light, as it would require him to totally redefine himself. Most people can’t do that, least of all this arrogant tool.

I think the best thing would be to totally ignore and not to debate with him any longer. We would of course still have to tell newcomers not to listen to his bullshit, but that can be done without communicating with him directly.

I mean Jesus H. Christ. C_C close grip benches over 500lbs for reps(or is it 600 now? lol) and just about all of T-Nation goes to him for training advice, yet dankid thinks he knows more about training. How delusional can you get?

[/quote]

Oh, I gave up trying to convince him of anything a few months ago - roughly around the time that he (and some other dude called Iron-something-or-other) told an already half-starved kid that he could gain muscle on a caloric deficit. When I said it was shitty advice on a number of levels, random guy wisely bowed out, but Dankid wasn’t having it: he went on to say that he wasn’t wrong because muscle could be gained on a caloric deficit by untrained fat people and that it was pertinent to the discussion because there might just be a fat person reading it who would benefit from the advice. That somehow made everything OK…

I won’t bore you with the details but much bullshit ensued. The thing I can’t get my head around is why someone who has admitted they have no interest in bodybuilding, hasn’t trained for any significant length of time as a bodybuilder, and hasn’t trained anybody to be a bodybuilder persists in coming onto a forum clearly marked ‘Bodybuilding Training’ with his ego billowing behind him, to tell people how to train. It fries my brain just to think about it. So I don’t. Much.

That sort of thing must lie in the domain of true genius.

Mind you, he’s not the only offender.

186

[quote]Mad_Duck wrote:
Hey C_C,
What’s this guy’s potential?[/quote]

To be 300 lbs eventually… Which he has achieved years ago.

Thing is, there was a picture where he had his shirt off and you could see the joints.

187

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mad_Duck wrote:
Hey C_C,
What’s this guy’s potential?

To be 300 lbs eventually… Which he has achieved years ago.

Thing is, there was a picture where he had his shirt off and you could see the joints.
[/quote]

We get to see all of the good that comes from the followers of the Butt.

I would personally change affiliations if I had Butt on the brain so much.

I mean, I like a nice looking ass just like the next man…but I HATE Butts.

188

My definition of someone who’s below average genetics is simply someone who has been underweight most of his pre-training life (despite eating a pretty “average diet” or maybe more). Some would argue that this is purely a metabolism issue though.

Someone who has to work up from 70lbs benching is not exactly what I would call average genetics.

The average person is not underweight. At average height (if I could even say that), the average weight probably ranges from 150lbs - 180lbs…more numbers I pulled out my arse…but it’s probably close enough.

I maintained only 130lbs at 6 feet tall before training (underweight). Not much muscle/strength to start with.

Not making up excuses (there is huge potential for these ones), but for someone to turn around and say that below average genetics don’t exist (just bad training) is pretty undermining.

189

You’ve already made a decision to be small, and you’re looking for justification. Everyone else here with any experience is telling you what you’ve said is bullshit. Believe what you want, but don’t tell other people to set their sights low.

190

[quote]joe shumsky wrote:
my goodness! i go away for a day or two and this thread turns into some kind of monster… to any who responded with constructive criticism, thank you. to those who resorted to condescension, insult, or otherwise, i truly feel sorry for you.

believe you me, i am suffering under NO ILLUSION WHATSOEVER that i’m some sort of “huge bodybuilder”… i’m seriously beginning to wonder whether or not some of you are even literate… perhaps you just saw the photos and, like the ignorant, arrogant, bullying lemmings that you proved yourselves to be, just decided to try to tear me down instead.

i mean, by my estimation, i’m one of the few people here who’s actually put his money where his mouth is and put it all out there (photos, stats, etc.) i’m not trying to hide anything from you, here… and the reason i’m being so forthcoming is because i was truly hoping to be able to have some semblance of an adult conversation about weight training and aesthetics with people who allegedly cared about such topics.

the plain and simple fact of the matter, though, is that SOME of you sound more like the third string of my old high school football team (you know, the ones who never made it out of remedial math, stayed back once or twice, never saw any playing time, yet STILL thought they were god’s gift, for some reason?)

i really don’t know when or where things got so fucked up in bodybuilding… if any of you have ever read anything written by some of OUR HEROES, you’d realize that you’re truly a disgrace to the sport.

i’m gonna go get a haircut now.

tom petty, out.

[/quote]

I’m not a bodybuilder, and I’m not that fan of the sport, but if you are going to tell other bodybuilding fans that they are a disgrace to their sport and to OUR HEROES (who the fuck is WE in this OUR sentence anyway), you should at least pack some meat as if you were a practitioner of the sport/activity.

You do not get to call people on their sport/activity if you are not a practitioner of the sport yourself.

From one short guy (5’6" walking at 100lbs when I first grabbed a dumbbell) to another one, it is hard to pack some meat, but it is not impossible. How much you can gain depends on what your goals are first and foremost.

I think you look great, but you can’t take your looks as proof that TBT works (specially if you don’t offer before pictures for comparision).

Looking at the title of your thread, works for what?

I did TBTs which helped me go from 150lbs to 165lbs within a year (after being stuck at 150lbs for a decade). It worked… for what I wanted (add more mass), in a context that is not bodybuilding. I also know that a great deal of me going from 100-110lbs to 150lbs was due to split routines, and I’m sure that if I had had better diets in my starting years, I would have made much more gains.

So it all depends on what your goals are.

If your goals were to be lean and fit, then you achieved that (though from one skinny guy to another, you have a lot of room to pack more meat.)

But if your goals were to be living proof that TBT works, proof with which to refute a bunch of bodybuilders in a bodybuilding forum (where the clear goals it … gasp! bodybuilding!), I mean, c’mon dude, seriously, what the fuck?

Also, if your goals were to be living proof that TBT works for small guys because they have a harder time to pack muscle, then you also failed. It is true that smaller guys get a harder time at packing muscle (specially smaller, skinny ones.) But IT IS NOT TRUE TO THE EXTENT YOU SEEM TO BELIEVE.

As for not wanting to put on size to avoid looking shorter, looking shorter or taller is a matter of posture and clothing. If you want to look shorter, for example, the last thing you want are clothes with horizontal patterns. You use clothes with vertical patterns, and so on and so on. One’s apparent stature is more than just being muscular or not.

191

No, he’s just one of the clueless dweebs from Thibs forum.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Are you Casey Butt’s alternative account?
[/quote]

192

Full body training doesn’t work. And nothing will if you don’t wan it to.

I joined this forum because I was in a funk. I’d been lifting for a while and like anyone - needed some motivation. Tnation seemed like a place where I could interact with other like minded/strong willed MEN (who liked women with nice butts lol). And then today, just seems like today, I come across all these wussie posts:

  1. You have to be genetically gifted to get big/move weight.
  2. Eating and lifting is too hard - I’ll crossfit.
  3. I work out for a focused 10 minutes at the Gym religiously. You can only build on steroids.
  4. This training program or that one doesn’t work. Look at me I’m living proof.
  5. Look how cut I am. I’m so emaciated that you can see my abs. (there’s a $2 word in there for you heavy lifters - jk)
  6. You bench 8 wheels, you must be lying.

Bottom line - you get out of life what you put into it. If you work hard and do the right things you will see gains. If you act like a Wussy, you get no P*ssy. Stop all the crying MAN up and deliver results.

193

[quote]porkpie wrote:
To many haters here, to be honest, if i had looked like that at 14/ 15 i would have been pleased with myself too!! 18/19 maybe less so ?[/quote]

cycling through your troll accounts huh?

Do the mods shut them down or do you do it to stay fresh?

Huh Mr. Rose?

194

[quote]Mad_Duck wrote:
countingbeans wrote:
Mad_Duck wrote:
Hey C_C,
What’s this guy’s potential?

That dude needs to talk to NDucedStrength98 right away…

(Some people will not get that joke I fear.)

;')

(it was either this or a full-retard pic.(not for you, but ND.))[/quote]

But… But he’s 175lbs and walks to the kitchen as soon as he gets up to be anabolic… And don’t forget collecting cans for supplements.

195

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Mad_Duck wrote:
countingbeans wrote:
Mad_Duck wrote:
Hey C_C,
What’s this guy’s potential?

That dude needs to talk to NDucedStrength98 right away…

(Some people will not get that joke I fear.)

;')

(it was either this or a full-retard pic.(not for you, but ND.))

But… But he’s 175lbs and walks to the kitchen as soon as he gets up to be anabolic… And don’t forget collecting cans for supplements.[/quote]

Well, I used to have to collect cans, but then I just started stealing sledgehammers!

196

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mad_Duck wrote:
Hey C_C,
What’s this guy’s potential?

To be 300 lbs eventually… Which he has achieved years ago.

Thing is, there was a picture where he had his shirt off and you could see the joints.
[/quote]

I think he said that he got ‘really skinny looking’ after that pic was taken.
It would’ve been fun to put his measurements into the Butt-o-meter though.

197

[quote]Thy. wrote:
destroyedquads wrote:
Thy. wrote:
So don’t make automatic conclusions about me because I write this. You don’t know me and don’t know how I train. I really put my best in this thing. I think about it all the time (even to the point where I think it’s not right, I’ve got to think about actual life more). I deadlift till I’m barely conscious. I try to eat a lot, but once I do that, my weak stomach doesn’t take it. I go throw out and it’s fucked up for several days and I eat even less than before. No, this muscle-building thing is not for me. My body is giving me every signal it got about this. But I try…

then stop giving advice to people who don’t have as shitty genetics as you.

“Shitty” more likely applies to your brain, because you’re saying nonsense that never happenned.
[/quote]

im sorry but on this thread you’ve dug your own grave, claiming that people of a certain bone structure are predisposed to staying at a certain weight… THEN admitting that you yourself are a failure in bodybulding.

What kind of an image do you think you’ve portrayed here? Someone for newbies to look up to?

198

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
No, he’s just one of the clueless dweebs from Thibs forum.

Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Are you Casey Butt’s alternative account?

[/quote]

First, I don’t know what’s a “dweeb” because I’m not a native English speaker and I’m not interested in learning idiotic slang expressions.

Second, do you have nothing else to do besides tracking down my account ?

Third, I’m not “clueless” - don’t speak about me as if you know me.

Anyway, do I care what a person with “dude” in his name has to say ?

199

I like Casey Butts and I cannot lie,
You other bodybuilders can’t deny.

200

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
My definition of someone who’s below average genetics is simply someone who has been underweight most of his pre-training life (despite eating a pretty “average diet” or maybe more). Some would argue that this is purely a metabolism issue though.

Someone who has to work up from 70lbs benching is not exactly what I would call average genetics.

The average person is not underweight. At average height (if I could even say that), the average weight probably ranges from 150lbs - 180lbs…more numbers I pulled out my arse…but it’s probably close enough.

I maintained only 130lbs at 6 feet tall before training (underweight). Not much muscle/strength to start with.

Not making up excuses (there is huge potential for these ones), but for someone to turn around and say that below average genetics don’t exist (just bad training) is pretty undermining.[/quote]

That’s what I’m saying too. There are people that don’t start at a disadvantage and the road to high results is light years easier for them.

A friend of mine entered the gym at 90 kg 20 years old, 5"7’ tall, a bit chubby. He easily benched 50 kg 4x10 the first day of his training. 5 months later, his bench max is 130 kg. Diet is traditional “home” diet of high cheap carbs and some protein, 3-4 times a day. No supplements. That’s above average genetics.