Front Page Photos

Off Topic
41

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

i understand you are trying to sound “hardcore” but how can kai greene motivate you if it is literally unattainable for you to look REMOTELY like him?

you may as well say i am inspired by the size of the planet jupiter and so train with that in mind when i am bench pressing. [/quote]

Wow.

Do you know who Ben Carson is?

If someone who wants to be a doctor can’t attain his level, should they stop trying and avoid using him as motivation to a goal?

How would someone know what is unattainable before they tried it?

You are using Kai Greene as an example because you think he represents someone who “definitely” uses…but to make claims that everyone impressive on steroids is EXACTLY what the general public is doing…and this attitude usually comes from people with the worst genetics and work ethic…only because they are pissed off at the hand they were dealt.

42

[quote]TC wrote:
We certainly don’t want to be confused for a “general fitness” site when someone clicks on T Nation.
[/quote]

Just a heads up…but I have had some literally follow me around the forum claiming this forum is exactly that.

43

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Artists have been seeking inspiration in museums for centuries. Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel ceiling changed art history the moment it was completed. Thousands of artists have made the pilgrimage to marvel and inspire beneath its glory. But how many of them will ever attain even a fraction of Michelangelo’s power with a brush?[/quote]

However, if you were reading an article on some painting techniques, and the majority of the “instructional photos” were of the work of impressionist painters… but the article neglected certain things like color theory, paint selection, mixing techniques… wouldn’t that be a touch misleading?

Versus, having photos showing the results of the actual technique described in the article?

It’s sort of like the article is put together that “if you use this technique, you can achieve the results in this picture”, when that’s a tenuous relationship at best.

Not to say it isn’t inspirational. It’s more, for instructional material, it seems that supporting the actual text with related images would be more effective. (Of course, that happens with some of the articles.)

44

Lately, with all these new members around here, it’s like '12 is the new '09.

45

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Lately, with all these new members around here, it’s like '12 is the new '09.[/quote]

I’m pretty sure I’m included in that group. What happened with the '09-ers?

46

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Lately, with all these new members around here, it’s like '12 is the new '09.[/quote]

Lol, I was gone for awhile and came back in 09’ I remember all the shit that year.

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

i understand you are trying to sound “hardcore” but how can kai greene motivate you if it is literally unattainable for you to look REMOTELY like him?

you may as well say i am inspired by the size of the planet jupiter and so train with that in mind when i am bench pressing. [/quote]

Wow.

Do you know who Ben Carson is?

If someone who wants to be a doctor can’t attain his level, should they stop trying and avoid using him as motivation to a goal?

How would someone know what is unattainable before they tried it?

You are using Kai Greene as an example because you think he represents someone who “definitely” uses…but to make claims that everyone impressive on steroids is EXACTLY what the general public is doing…and this attitude usually comes from people with the worst genetics and work ethic…only because they are pissed off at the hand they were dealt.[/quote]

there isn’t a comparison with becoming a doctor lol

you need to take drugs to become a top BB that is all im saying

kai greene first name that popped into my head

why you think i am accusing “everyone” who is “impressive” of taking drugs is beyond me

i made a very simple point: a LARGE percentage of people take steroids and people are either ignorant of this or kid themselves as to their efficacy.

thats it, i am not “hating” at all i have already said in my very first post that i dont care i am just having a debate in this thread i am not massively pro or anti drugs

48

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
are people really complaining about 1/2 nekkid dudes? You do realize the “Figure Athletes” pics have not been updated in a long time. Priorities people.[/quote]

I know right, I don’t even look at the pictures unless its a chick with a hot ass.

49

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

there isn’t a comparison with becoming a doctor lol
[/quote]

There is if you claim that someone has to be able to personally reach a goal outright with some kind of foresight (possibly ESP related??) for it to be an acceptable motivator.

You know…that IS what you claimed?

[quote]
you need to take drugs to become a top BB that is all im saying[/quote]

OK…and you also need 1:1,000,000,000 genetics also. Since most have NEITHER, why focus on the steroids and not ALSO the genetics?

[quote]
kai greene first name that popped into my head

why you think i am accusing “everyone” who is “impressive” of taking drugs is beyond me[/quote]

I didn’t say that. I said the call outs are lame…as in the “I don’t want to say any names…but that guy over there…you know, the bald one they use in the ads lately who used to play football…you know, THE GUY WHO i CAN’T NAME…he uses roids!!!”

LOL at the level of passive aggressiveness today.

I understand that. Look, I think you argued your point well…I am just saying that it isn’t logical. Most people won’t look like above average people with above average genetics. Why?

Because they are AVERAGE.

Complaining that the above average genetics lifter used steroids is like complaining that the guy with the photographic memory had a tutor.

50

[quote]Professor X wrote:
[/quote]

my point regarding a member here is by a long way the most appropriate and relevant point made in this particular thread and could not have encapsulated the entire debate any better.

i am not whispering ew look roids !!

if someone has a good memory and is also injecting substances to improve their memory and passing memory tests, then the comparison can be made with genetics drugs and bodybuilding

drugs are so fundamental to BB that it is not funny.

i know you personally are aware of this but honestly a very large percentage of lifters arent

yes - who gives a shit etc, this is just a GAL thread remember we’re all just shooting the breeze

51

52

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
If I wanted to be inspired by average, I’d avoid coming here and instead read Men’s Health.

I know I’ll never look like Kai Green, but the fucker is an incredible image to motivate oneself with.
[/quote]

this must mean you look better than mens health models?

i understand you are trying to sound “hardcore” but how can kai greene motivate you if it is literally unattainable for you to look REMOTELY like him?

you may as well say i am inspired by the size of the planet jupiter and so train with that in mind when i am bench pressing. [/quote]

Jupiter doesn’t lift.

53

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

drugs are so fundamental to BB that it is not funny.

i know you personally are aware of this but honestly a very large percentage of lifters arent

yes - who gives a shit etc, this is just a GAL thread remember we’re all just shooting the breeze

[/quote]

Drugs are not fundamental to bodybuilding but they do represent a significant portion of the competitive scene especially the higher you go up in rankings. Somehow, today this is an issue…as if it is any different than 60+ years ago.

The only difference between now and then…is that every jackass with a keyboard and internet connection now considers themselves an expert on everything.

The reality? The reality is that most people won’t even look that impressive if they started using steroids…BECAUSE THE GENETICS of the individual matter just that much.

That is why I question anyone claiming they need more “regular” people as inspiration…because this usually comes from people who NO ONE would want to look like on a bodybuilding forum.

The truth is, it is doubtful most of the people discussing steroids have a basic clue what that really means in detail. They are speaking out of information gained from public opinion, the media and Google searches. Most of these sources are directed at the AVERAGE COUCH POTATO.

Simply put, yes, drugs are there in bodybuilding…but to make an issue of that as far as your own motivations comes across as phony unless specifically shooting for competition on a natural federation or just a statement about personal goals.

To demand that people used to inspire should look like what the average person can attain wouldn’t leave us with much motivation.

54

I thought this thread was going to be more pics of the girls on the TN homepage right now…

…du-oh.

55

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
If this were an aspiring rock musician forum, wouldn’t it make sense to place rock STARS up there as something to motivate the members?

It’s good to have high goals.[/quote]

poor analogy - it is not the same.

also what does “high goals” mean? in theory you can become a top rock star with talent and practice. it is literally impossible to become a top amateur BB never mind get on the O stage never mind win the O without drugs.

personally i don’t really care but ultimately i do think it is bullshit - no supplement or exercise will ever make you look like kai greene even with the best genetics in history unless you also take loads of drugs.

the truth is that a large percentage particularly younger and/or new trainers do not know this.

steroid use is so rife that people’s perceptions are very skewed as to what’s possible.
[/quote]

This was dumb. yolo - you were in such a hurry to disagree, you didn’t actually think it thru.

ID’s analogy was fine: the innate talent + lucky break that the top rock stars all got is NO DIFFERENT than the innate genetics + pharm assistance that top BB’s possess.

If you wanted to make the point about unnatural expectations of newbies, then just say that. Also something to keep in mind: disagreement needs to be valid in order to be constructive.

56

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
If this were an aspiring rock musician forum, wouldn’t it make sense to place rock STARS up there as something to motivate the members?

It’s good to have high goals.[/quote]

poor analogy - it is not the same.

also what does “high goals” mean? in theory you can become a top rock star with talent and practice. it is literally impossible to become a top amateur BB never mind get on the O stage never mind win the O without drugs.

personally i don’t really care but ultimately i do think it is bullshit - no supplement or exercise will ever make you look like kai greene even with the best genetics in history unless you also take loads of drugs.

the truth is that a large percentage particularly younger and/or new trainers do not know this.

steroid use is so rife that people’s perceptions are very skewed as to what’s possible.
[/quote]

This was dumb. yolo - you were in such a hurry to disagree, you didn’t actually think it thru.

ID’s analogy was fine: the innate talent + lucky break that the top rock stars all got is NO DIFFERENT than the innate genetics + pharm assistance that top BB’s possess.

If you wanted to make the point about unnatural expectations of newbies, then just say that. Also something to keep in mind: disagreement needs to be valid in order to be constructive.

[/quote]

lol at injecting steroids being the same as a “lucky break”

talk sense please not bollocks

thanks for getting it completely wrong AND being patronising at the same time

i refer you to you last line please apply to yourself before posting cheers

57

[quote]chillain wrote:

If you wanted to make the point about unnatural expectations of newbies, then just say that.

[/quote]

That is actually a decent topic, mostly because I see a whole lot of newbs setting the bar way lower than I have seen it before based on these same assumptions.

There was a huge argument in the bodybuilding forum about one poster stated that NO ONE could reach a certain weight naturally lean at average height.

Unnatural expectations? I have only seen people worry about this shit recently…as if you need to stop someone from trying too hard.

To be direct, you will know if you have the genetics for this by the freaking progress you make. Yes, that goes for the people too slow to figure out important details also.

It seems like some strange way for internet warriors to run around telling people what they can’t do.

I am still waiting to see all of these people being injured because they all worked so hard for years in the gym all due to Kai Greene. LOL. Most are trying to work out less.

58

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
thanks for getting it completely wrong AND being patronising at the same time
[/quote]

Thanks, not everyone can pull it off.

Regardless, turnabout is fair play…

59

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

I won’t go so far as to say it’s misleading, but I do find it a bit strange.

It just feels like a heavyhanded strategy to say “we’re more hardcore, because the pictures in our article are more hardcore.” And this approach seems to undercut the actual quality of the content. They seem at cross-purposes.

For example, you have the “programs” from Men’s Health and AskMen and so on, which will never get you looking like the models they have pictured. Then you stuff here which will actually do a much better job getting you to look like a Men’s Health model, but the model pictured is often enhanced.

Granted, TNation has great content overall, and if you actually read the articles, you pretty much gloss over the images anyway.

Just an observation, not a complaint.[/quote]

Let me ask you and anyone sharing the same opinion…given we have seen in the Indigo forum where the “average” lifter here stands, why would someone demand the guys used to inspire are chosen from those types of people?

Simply put, I doubt most of the people here who do follow these articles look in a way that would inspire most other trainers…so why would I want to see them more often on articles?

Most people won’t ever look like lifters with great genetics.

To even demand that they should try only declares mediocrity and claims we should aspire to it.[/quote]

(I figured I should go back and answer it; I was away for a bit.)

My concern was more the relationship between the image selection and the article content. It was more a matter of instruction.

I think the photo selection is fine for inspiration; many of them are in fact quite badass. I think seeing the best of the best natural lifters, enhanced lifters, and even mythical figures/superheroes/demigods/etc. is great inspiration.

But I also think that “realistic expectations” should be addressed somewhere. For as truthful and honest as the article content is – they lack the fluff, filler and BS you find on other sites – I feel they don’t do a great job at presenting reasonable expectations/goals for a natural lifter.

Now obviously genetics is a huge component, and I’m not even going to pretend that there’s some sort of “limits” for the natural lifter. But I’d like to see more presentation of “this is the best that natural lifters have achieved so far”.

It’s much more likely to achieve a similar size as Greg Plitt as a natural lifter, than it is to achieve a similar size to Kai. Both are great inspirations, but in terms of personal goal setting, they just appeal to a different audience based on your level of commitment to the sport.

I just think that the image selection DOES tie in closely with affecting one’s perception when goal setting.

60

[quote]LoRez wrote:

But I also think that “realistic expectations” should be addressed somewhere. For as truthful and honest as the article content is – they lack the fluff, filler and BS you find on other sites – I feel they don’t do a great job at presenting reasonable expectations/goals for a natural lifter.

Now obviously genetics is a huge component, and I’m not even going to pretend that there’s some sort of “limits” for the natural lifter. But I’d like to see more presentation of “this is the best that natural lifters have achieved so far”.

It’s much more likely to achieve a similar size as Greg Plitt as a natural lifter, than it is to achieve a similar size to Kai. Both are great inspirations, but in terms of personal goal setting, they just appeal to a different audience based on your level of commitment to the sport.

I just think that the image selection DOES tie in closely with affecting one’s perception when goal setting.[/quote]

I think I addressed this above. From what I see, this focus on what people CAN’T do hasn’t done anything but drastically decreased the number of big people in the gym.

Anyone trying to tell you what you can’t do outside of extreme examples isn’t doing you any favors.

I have never heard someone who accomplished much say, “I sure am glad they told me I couldn’t do something before I wasted any time trying!!”.