mightly impressive.
2012 olympics, or are they ‘enhanced’ lifts?
Insane!
[quote]tdubs wrote:
mightly impressive.
2012 olympics, or are they ‘enhanced’ lifts?[/quote]
Dude, this guy is a freak of nature. This kind of strength is totally unachievable for 99.9% of the population regardless of drug use or not.
Hard to fathom. Awesome.
[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
[quote]tdubs wrote:
mightly impressive.
2012 olympics, or are they ‘enhanced’ lifts?[/quote]
Dude, this guy is a freak of nature. This kind of strength is totally unachievable for 99.9% of the population regardless of drug use or not.
[/quote]
i totally agree. i’m just interested to know whether the kid is natural i.e. with those numbers he’ll be competing at the Olympics, or if he’s a beast that lifts for, well, fun…!
Now that is a strong MuthaFucker right there!
I’ve been following his lifts for the past few months when I first saw him Snatch 180something on youtube.
This is an interview with his Coach
[quote]tdubs wrote:
[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
[quote]tdubs wrote:
mightly impressive.
2012 olympics, or are they ‘enhanced’ lifts?[/quote]
Dude, this guy is a freak of nature. This kind of strength is totally unachievable for 99.9% of the population regardless of drug use or not.
[/quote]
i totally agree. i’m just interested to know whether the kid is natural i.e. with those numbers he’ll be competing at the Olympics, or if he’s a beast that lifts for, well, fun…![/quote]
Do you really think his coach is coming over on T-Nation and tell everyone that his kid juices, think man…This kid wants to participate as an olympic weightlifter, with the the strict testing I doubt he juices. The only q I got for coach Broz, when does Pat plan to compete?
Keep it up with Pat, I’m inspired
[quote]tdubs wrote:
mightly impressive.
2012 olympics, or are they ‘enhanced’ lifts?[/quote]
You’d swear that matters.
And that interview was shot by one of the guys I train with, he’s some really good stuff on his youtube that’s worth watching.
As for Mendes - beyond sick. Absolutely unbelievable.
Actually, he is not the first american to snatch 200kg, or the youngest to do the clean. Why? Because he has not done it in a meet. There’s speculation that he is avoiding meets because he is juicing. Whether or not that is true, his coach is doing him a huge disservice by not making him lift in meets. First off, he will not have the experience of lifting in high pressure scenarios. Second off, if he is clean, his coach is just making everyone doubt him and there will always be a question besmudging the poor guy. If he is dirty, than his numbers don’t mean shit.
A little background on this: I believe he has signed up for 2 separate meets that he later found out would be drug tested, and withdrew from both once the drug testing was announced. I believe the second one, he had no choice but to withdraw from USAW altogether to pull it off - that’s really suspicious (though it doesn’t prove anything, of course.) His coach claims its not the athlete’s fault that the meets he has participated in have not been drug tested, but again… if you withdraw from any meet you find out is drug tested, it is his fault!
What people in the olympic lifting community don’t like is the idea that someone could be off cheating for a few years and then show up clean for 6 months and possibly go to the Olympics when other people were doing it the fair way. Again, I’m not saying this kid is doping, but the behavior brings up significant questions.
I also think its funny that whoever posted this made an account to post this video. It almost seems like they are trying to garner support from the general community knowing the Olympic community is pretty negative towards the situation.
[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
Actually, he is not the first american to snatch 200kg, or the youngest to do the clean. Why? Because he has not done it in a meet. There’s speculation that he is avoiding meets because he is juicing. Whether or not that is true, his coach is doing him a huge disservice by not making him lift in meets. First off, he will not have the experience of lifting in high pressure scenarios. Second off, if he is clean, his coach is just making everyone doubt him and there will always be a question besmudging the poor guy. If he is dirty, than his numbers don’t mean shit.
A little background on this: I believe he has signed up for 2 separate meets that he later found out would be drug tested, and withdrew from both once the drug testing was announced. I believe the second one, he had no choice but to withdraw from USAW altogether to pull it off - that’s really suspicious (though it doesn’t prove anything, of course.) His coach claims its not the athlete’s fault that the meets he has participated in have not been drug tested, but again… if you withdraw from any meet you find out is drug tested, it is his fault!
What people in the olympic lifting community don’t like is the idea that someone could be off cheating for a few years and then show up clean for 6 months and possibly go to the Olympics when other people were doing it the fair way. Again, I’m not saying this kid is doping, but the behavior brings up significant questions.
I also think its funny that whoever posted this made an account to post this video. It almost seems like they are trying to garner support from the general community knowing the Olympic community is pretty negative towards the situation. [/quote]
His coach is John Broz… He runs Average Broz Gym… The posters username is Brozknows
Lets see where this one goes!
[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
Actually, he is not the first american to snatch 200kg, or the youngest to do the clean. Why? Because he has not done it in a meet. There’s speculation that he is avoiding meets because he is juicing. Whether or not that is true, his coach is doing him a huge disservice by not making him lift in meets. First off, he will not have the experience of lifting in high pressure scenarios. Second off, if he is clean, his coach is just making everyone doubt him and there will always be a question besmudging the poor guy. If he is dirty, than his numbers don’t mean shit.
A little background on this: I believe he has signed up for 2 separate meets that he later found out would be drug tested, and withdrew from both once the drug testing was announced. I believe the second one, he had no choice but to withdraw from USAW altogether to pull it off - that’s really suspicious (though it doesn’t prove anything, of course.) His coach claims its not the athlete’s fault that the meets he has participated in have not been drug tested, but again… if you withdraw from any meet you find out is drug tested, it is his fault!
What people in the olympic lifting community don’t like is the idea that someone could be off cheating for a few years and then show up clean for 6 months and possibly go to the Olympics when other people were doing it the fair way. Again, I’m not saying this kid is doping, but the behavior brings up significant questions.
I also think its funny that whoever posted this made an account to post this video. It almost seems like they are trying to garner support from the general community knowing the Olympic community is pretty negative towards the situation. [/quote]
What I find amusing is how your “background” statistics are so inaccurate.
1)He has lifted in over 8 meets, 2 of which were tested.
2)He has NEVER withdrawn from a meet nor has ANY of my lifters!
3)The meet that I made that claim about was not even with him. It was with my 94kilo lifter, and it was the Junior Nationals. It was supposed to be a tested meet to put rumors to rest and they decided to not spend the money to test the athletes. It is not our fault that happened. He finished 2nd and they informed us AFTER the meet that they were not testing. We were disappointed.
4)regardless if he snatched 200 with straps, in a meet, or on a street corner, it is an accomplishment that has NEVER been done before - under ANY circumstances by any other American -EVER! I never said it was the greatest competition snatch of all time, I said he was the ONLY American to snatch 200 - which is 100% true. “if he is dirty, then his numbers don’t mean shit” - sounds like you’ve already become judge and jury.
5)I have been involved in the sport for over 25 years and it’s safe to say that your generalization about the “community” being pretty negative is far from accurate as well. Fortunately, I don’t care what the “Olympic community” thinks. If I did, I wouldn’t post videos at all. I understand that there are haters (such as yourself) and people that are jazzed about the chance to bring home a gold. There is no middle ground and to each his own. There will always be positive people and people that are negative.
I have had the conversation before about meets. What you fail to realize it this: If someone makes a team, goes to another country to lift and comes in 15th place, what real “high pressure scenario” did he encounter? I have been to many Sr World Championships. When I see the US team lifting down the hall, 200 yards away from the main venue in a room the size of our gym while the best fight it out the next day on the main stage, I realized that unless you are in contention for a medal you will never feel any sort of pressure. How can there be pressure when your fate is sealed to lose because you are unprepared?
I came to this site because I have been reading it for a long time, as have many of my friends. I never felt a reason to create an account simply because I never had anything worth contributing.
[quote]BrozKnows wrote:
[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
Actually, he is not the first american to snatch 200kg, or the youngest to do the clean. Why? Because he has not done it in a meet. There’s speculation that he is avoiding meets because he is juicing. Whether or not that is true, his coach is doing him a huge disservice by not making him lift in meets. First off, he will not have the experience of lifting in high pressure scenarios. Second off, if he is clean, his coach is just making everyone doubt him and there will always be a question besmudging the poor guy. If he is dirty, than his numbers don’t mean shit.
A little background on this: I believe he has signed up for 2 separate meets that he later found out would be drug tested, and withdrew from both once the drug testing was announced. I believe the second one, he had no choice but to withdraw from USAW altogether to pull it off - that’s really suspicious (though it doesn’t prove anything, of course.) His coach claims its not the athlete’s fault that the meets he has participated in have not been drug tested, but again… if you withdraw from any meet you find out is drug tested, it is his fault!
What people in the olympic lifting community don’t like is the idea that someone could be off cheating for a few years and then show up clean for 6 months and possibly go to the Olympics when other people were doing it the fair way. Again, I’m not saying this kid is doping, but the behavior brings up significant questions.
I also think its funny that whoever posted this made an account to post this video. It almost seems like they are trying to garner support from the general community knowing the Olympic community is pretty negative towards the situation. [/quote]
What I find amusing is how your “background” statistics are so inaccurate.
1)He has lifted in over 8 meets, 2 of which were tested.
2)He has NEVER withdrawn from a meet nor has ANY of my lifters!
3)The meet that I made that claim about was not even with him. It was with my 94kilo lifter, and it was the Junior Nationals. It was supposed to be a tested meet to put rumors to rest and they decided to not spend the money to test the athletes. It is not our fault that happened. He finished 2nd and they informed us AFTER the meet that they were not testing. We were disappointed.
4)regardless if he snatched 200 with straps, in a meet, or on a street corner, it is an accomplishment that has NEVER been done before - under ANY circumstances by any other American -EVER! I never said it was the greatest competition snatch of all time, I said he was the ONLY American to snatch 200 - which is 100% true. “if he is dirty, then his numbers don’t mean shit” - sounds like you’ve already become judge and jury.
5)I have been involved in the sport for over 25 years and it’s safe to say that your generalization about the “community” being pretty negative is far from accurate as well. Fortunately, I don’t care what the “Olympic community” thinks. If I did, I wouldn’t post videos at all. I understand that there are haters (such as yourself) and people that are jazzed about the chance to bring home a gold. There is no middle ground and to each his own. There will always be positive people and people that are negative.
I have had the conversation before about meets. What you fail to realize it this: If someone makes a team, goes to another country to lift and comes in 15th place, what real “high pressure scenario” did he encounter? I have been to many Sr World Championships. When I see the US team lifting down the hall, 200 yards away from the main venue in a room the size of our gym while the best fight it out the next day on the main stage, I realized that unless you are in contention for a medal you will never feel any sort of pressure. How can there be pressure when your fate is sealed to lose because you are unprepared?
I came to this site because I have been reading it for a long time, as have many of my friends. I never felt a reason to create an account simply because I never had anything worth contributing.
[/quote]
Please don’t quit the site because of one post.
[quote]BrozKnows wrote:
[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
Actually, he is not the first american to snatch 200kg, or the youngest to do the clean. Why? Because he has not done it in a meet. There’s speculation that he is avoiding meets because he is juicing. Whether or not that is true, his coach is doing him a huge disservice by not making him lift in meets. First off, he will not have the experience of lifting in high pressure scenarios. Second off, if he is clean, his coach is just making everyone doubt him and there will always be a question besmudging the poor guy. If he is dirty, than his numbers don’t mean shit.
A little background on this: I believe he has signed up for 2 separate meets that he later found out would be drug tested, and withdrew from both once the drug testing was announced. I believe the second one, he had no choice but to withdraw from USAW altogether to pull it off - that’s really suspicious (though it doesn’t prove anything, of course.) His coach claims its not the athlete’s fault that the meets he has participated in have not been drug tested, but again… if you withdraw from any meet you find out is drug tested, it is his fault!
What people in the olympic lifting community don’t like is the idea that someone could be off cheating for a few years and then show up clean for 6 months and possibly go to the Olympics when other people were doing it the fair way. Again, I’m not saying this kid is doping, but the behavior brings up significant questions.
I also think its funny that whoever posted this made an account to post this video. It almost seems like they are trying to garner support from the general community knowing the Olympic community is pretty negative towards the situation. [/quote]
What I find amusing is how your “background” statistics are so inaccurate.
1)He has lifted in over 8 meets, 2 of which were tested.
2)He has NEVER withdrawn from a meet nor has ANY of my lifters!
3)The meet that I made that claim about was not even with him. It was with my 94kilo lifter, and it was the Junior Nationals. It was supposed to be a tested meet to put rumors to rest and they decided to not spend the money to test the athletes. It is not our fault that happened. He finished 2nd and they informed us AFTER the meet that they were not testing. We were disappointed.
4)regardless if he snatched 200 with straps, in a meet, or on a street corner, it is an accomplishment that has NEVER been done before - under ANY circumstances by any other American -EVER! I never said it was the greatest competition snatch of all time, I said he was the ONLY American to snatch 200 - which is 100% true. “if he is dirty, then his numbers don’t mean shit” - sounds like you’ve already become judge and jury.
5)I have been involved in the sport for over 25 years and it’s safe to say that your generalization about the “community” being pretty negative is far from accurate as well. Fortunately, I don’t care what the “Olympic community” thinks. If I did, I wouldn’t post videos at all. I understand that there are haters (such as yourself) and people that are jazzed about the chance to bring home a gold. There is no middle ground and to each his own. There will always be positive people and people that are negative.
I have had the conversation before about meets. What you fail to realize it this: If someone makes a team, goes to another country to lift and comes in 15th place, what real “high pressure scenario” did he encounter? I have been to many Sr World Championships. When I see the US team lifting down the hall, 200 yards away from the main venue in a room the size of our gym while the best fight it out the next day on the main stage, I realized that unless you are in contention for a medal you will never feel any sort of pressure. How can there be pressure when your fate is sealed to lose because you are unprepared?
I came to this site because I have been reading it for a long time, as have many of my friends. I never felt a reason to create an account simply because I never had anything worth contributing.
[/quote]
Wow - apparently, Broz DOES know
[quote]BrozKnows wrote:
What I find amusing is how your “background” statistics are so inaccurate.
1)He has lifted in over 8 meets, 2 of which were tested.
[/quote]
Yeah… unfortunately that is not recently at all, when he made his biggest gains. 40kgs on the snatch in a year without testing is what is raising eyebrows. The last meet I see him lifting at is the Arnold’s of last year.
Maybe I misheard this, and if so I apologize on that. But he did withdraw from USAW, no? Why was that?
Hey - reread what I wrote. I used ‘If’ statements there. I think its suspicious, yes. But as I plainly said, it just looks suspicious. I wrote over and over that nothing is proven, and that maybe he is just being done a disservice.
When I said the community, I mean many people in the community who are grumbling about this. Yes, it is not the entire community. But as evidenced by responses on Goheavy.com, which you responded to so you are clearly aware of them, there are many who would like to see this kid hit numbers in a drug-tested meet. So would I! He is clearly amazingly strong, and I hope he’s the real deal because this country needs a great lifter to revitalize the sport.
Also, I feel like I am the middle ground. I’m not a hater - I’d like to see him do well! He’s a young guy with a ton of talent. But the middle ground here is that I want to make sure he is not cheating since that would hurt the sport in this country a lot.
What you are suggesting here is that there are no different levels of high pressure. Either you are competing at the top of the world and its pressure, or it isn’t. No… without Americans, Senior Nationals, Pan Ams, low placing at Worlds, etc… I sincerely doubt an athlete can handle the Olympics-pressure. Just like an athlete cant walk into the gym on his first day and do a 150 snatch, neither can an athlete not compete in a meet that has some level of pressure and hit great lifts at a huge meet. Clearly the 15th place finish is a stepping stone of pressure.
[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
[quote]BrozKnows wrote:
What I find amusing is how your “background” statistics are so inaccurate.
1)He has lifted in over 8 meets, 2 of which were tested.
[/quote]
Yeah… unfortunately that is not recently at all, when he made his biggest gains. 40kgs on the snatch in a year without testing is what is raising eyebrows. The last meet I see him lifting at is the Arnold’s of last year.
Maybe I misheard this, and if so I apologize on that. But he did withdraw from USAW, no? Why was that?
Hey - reread what I wrote. I used ‘If’ statements there. I think its suspicious, yes. But as I plainly said, it just looks suspicious. I wrote over and over that nothing is proven, and that maybe he is just being done a disservice.
When I said the community, I mean many people in the community who are grumbling about this. Yes, it is not the entire community. But as evidenced by responses on Goheavy.com, which you responded to so you are clearly aware of them, there are many who would like to see this kid hit numbers in a drug-tested meet. So would I! He is clearly amazingly strong, and I hope he’s the real deal because this country needs a great lifter to revitalize the sport.
Also, I feel like I am the middle ground. I’m not a hater - I’d like to see him do well! He’s a young guy with a ton of talent. But the middle ground here is that I want to make sure he is not cheating since that would hurt the sport in this country a lot.
What you are suggesting here is that there are no different levels of high pressure. Either you are competing at the top of the world and its pressure, or it isn’t. No… without Americans, Senior Nationals, Pan Ams, low placing at Worlds, etc… I sincerely doubt an athlete can handle the Olympics-pressure. Just like an athlete cant walk into the gym on his first day and do a 150 snatch, neither can an athlete not compete in a meet that has some level of pressure and hit great lifts at a huge meet. Clearly the 15th place finish is a stepping stone of pressure.
[/quote]
His biggest gains? What are you basing your timeframe off of? before the Arnolds in March, 2009 he Snatched 170 in training, missing 166 at the meet. He also attempted 166 at the Sr nationals in June of last year as well (tested meet). since that time he has made 200 with straps in ideal conditions, over 1 year later from the 170. That’s 30kg in 14 months. He started lifting in June of 2008, so in less than 7 months, leading up to the Arnolds, he went from 0 - 170. I would definitely say that the first year was more “progress” than this past year. He also C/J 195 @ the Arnolds - easily and since that time has only c/j 210. He has cleaned more and jerked more, but not together. Most of the energy has been directed towards the Snatch. So, the c/j has only increased 15kg in 16 months. It’s easy to speculate when you don’t have correct facts.
His USAW membership expired. He never renewed it. He has dual citizenship with Brazil. We are leaving his options open to avoid any possible conflict or “2 yr rule” about switching countries teams. Depending on where his best opportunity lies, he might compete for them. If we renew, we might be obligated to lift for the US. This might or might not be the best route to go.
Yes, I have seen the crap on GoHeavy. It’s usually one random clown that uses an alias with an IP address that is out of the country. Same idiot that was harrassing me on youtube. It’s a small percentage of people that are bitter. For the most part, the individuals in this sport are great people. I would realistically say that more than the majority are excited - curious, yet supportive.
No, what I’m saying is exactly that. There ARE different levels of pressure. Learning to cope/deal with pressure on the highest order you must prepare for, but can only be done so if you are put in that position. Going to a meet to lose, badly, is like a boxer getting knocked out. Does it build character? Possibly - but Tyson and others are not quite the same after. I was the guy who studied for tests and was prepared to get an A - without a doubt. I wasn’t the clown studying all night before, worrying with my fingers crossed, hoping I pass. I choose to protect them from this sort of humiliation and embarrassment. It is 100% completely unnecessary, as well as irresponsible. When I feel like they have a honest chance to fight for gold, because they are prepared mentally and physically, weather it’s at a local meet, jr nats, sr nats, etc. then and only then will I take them to battle! Until then, let the speculation continue. I am NOT concerned with team points, team placings or any other nonsense. I see where that got the last superheavy who managed to score enough points to earn team spots for the OG and he got left behind. It’s my job to look out for my athletes’ best interests. My loyalty is with them, not USAW.
Like I said many times before, I know most wont agree or understand my perspective. It’s OK because it’s these same people that most likely would be content with “making a team” or coming in last. This is NOT a champions mentality! I can’t and won’t condone such dreadful behavior.
If you’re not first, you’re last! © Ricky Bobby, inc.
First off, the man is ridiculously strong, juice or no juice. And really I think the juice thing is a moot point, either he’s not juicing and he’s going to hear speculation about that his whole life, or he is, but because Broz doesn’t exactly seem like a dummy, he never gets caught (potentially similar to a number of international level lifters). Far as I’m concerned, I could give two shits unless he gets caught.
I would like to see him compete though. If the intent is for him to go to the Olympics and win medals (which it seems like it is), then I’d like to see how his training lifts translate to competitions. Because insane training lifts are great and all, but they don’t mean much if you can’t replicate that success in a meet. As far as pressure in meets and only going out if you’ve got a reasonable shot at winning, well, I guess if that’s the way you think about it then that’s the way you’d proceed. Not everybody thinks about it like that though, so I’m not surprised you’re hearing stuff from other people. Right now I’m not competing to beat other people, I’m competing to beat myself. When I step onto that platform, it’s just me and the bar, and for right now, that’s all that matters. Maybe that’ll change when I get to the point of competing for national titles and maybe competing internationally, but that’s not for me to say.
And it’s late and I’m starting to ramble so I’m going to cut myself off. Beastly lifts though, fucking ridiculously beastly.
Edit: Also, not sure how exactly he’d have a better opportunity lifting for Brazil than the USA. If his training lifts translate to competition, he would be the #1 superheavy in America, no?
Why is everyone talking about steroids? Shut the fuck up and grow up.
That video is fucking phenomenal and so is the lifter respect it for what it is you nippy cunts.
If he was walking around with a testosterone drip I wouldn’t give a shit but he has never admitted to juicing and has not tested positive so as far as you know he is clean.
Since this is the case I shall reiterate.
Shut the fuck up.
Again phenomenal lifting this guy is going to do some damage on the world stage.
[quote]TheJonty wrote:
First off, the man is ridiculously strong, juice or no juice. And really I think the juice thing is a moot point, either he’s not juicing and he’s going to hear speculation about that his whole life, or he is, but because Broz doesn’t exactly seem like a dummy, he never gets caught (potentially similar to a number of international level lifters). Far as I’m concerned, I could give two shits unless he gets caught.
I would like to see him compete though. If the intent is for him to go to the Olympics and win medals (which it seems like it is), then I’d like to see how his training lifts translate to competitions. Because insane training lifts are great and all, but they don’t mean much if you can’t replicate that success in a meet. As far as pressure in meets and only going out if you’ve got a reasonable shot at winning, well, I guess if that’s the way you think about it then that’s the way you’d proceed. Not everybody thinks about it like that though, so I’m not surprised you’re hearing stuff from other people. Right now I’m not competing to beat other people, I’m competing to beat myself. When I step onto that platform, it’s just me and the bar, and for right now, that’s all that matters. Maybe that’ll change when I get to the point of competing for national titles and maybe competing internationally, but that’s not for me to say.
And it’s late and I’m starting to ramble so I’m going to cut myself off. Beastly lifts though, fucking ridiculously beastly.
Edit: Also, not sure how exactly he’d have a better opportunity lifting for Brazil than the USA. If his training lifts translate to competition, he would be the #1 superheavy in America, no?[/quote]
08 Beijing, Casey got points for the US and the No1 US 105+ and he got left behind because of politics or the other lifters had better chances ‘relative to their class’ then Casey…this is how it is in England also.
AND check this sh!t out for politics…we are HOSTING the 2012 Games and WE ARE NOT SENDING A FULL SQUAD, wtf?! We are sending HALF A SQUAD so only 3 out of 6 men…what a complete balls up…
Koing
[quote]IrishMarc wrote:
Why is everyone talking about steroids? Shut the fuck up and grow up.
That video is fucking phenomenal and so is the lifter respect it for what it is you nippy cunts.
If he was walking around with a testosterone drip I wouldn’t give a shit but he has never admitted to juicing and has not tested positive so as far as you know he is clean.
Since this is the case I shall reiterate.
Shut the fuck up.
Again phenomenal lifting this guy is going to do some damage on the world stage.
[/quote]
You’re contradicting yourself. You say you wouldn’t give a shit if the guy was walking around with Testosterone drip, yet you say he’s going to do damage on the world stage. If he is in fact on the juice, how then is he going to be doing damage on the National/World/Olympic stage? Mandatory testing (assuming tests are available and accurate for all drugs in common usage) would identify any drug use.
Dr Manhattan and I probably in the same school of though here, so to clarify:
- Yes, the kid is a beast and phenomenally strong.
- I fully respect the numbers he is putting up. They are world class.
- EVERYONE wants the lifts to be natural and…
- Drug use or not, the kid is immensely strong.
The question of steroid use is simply to know if the lifts are natural or not. I have huge respect for his numbers. I am saying I would have more if they are drug-free.
Case in point:
Ben Johnson and Usain Bolt have both set 100m world records in their respective generations. Both are outstanding achievements. But which do you respect more?