Mendes/Gilbert Test Positive

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

Pat Mendes tested positive for HGH in an out of competition test from February and has been given a 2 year suspension. Josh Gilbert tested positive for a diuretic at nationals and has accepted the sanctions, although I don’t know what those are yet. Broz himself posted a brief message on the forums over at Pendlay’s site laying this out there.

The official statement from USADA about Pat: http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-mendes4162012

Most of us have seen these guys lifting and progressing, however you feel about the drug issue, it’s a shitty situation.

2

Who framed Pat Mendes?

3

Not a surprise, US is not going to produce anything near a champion with these constant tests during training. Hopefully neither of them give up.

4

Not shocked at all he’s got that 207kg snatch on youtube and then posts 175kg at panams…yeah it was because of the straps.

5

Shitty situation. They’re both great lifters, and I hope they don’t leave the sport permanently. I also hope that the US weightlifting community can learn how to show a little more compassion and a little less schadenfreude.

6

Well he made it to ESPN Weightlifter Pat Mendes suspended for use of HGH

7

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Shitty situation. They’re both great lifters, and I hope they don’t leave the sport permanently. I also hope that the US weightlifting community can learn how to show a little more compassion and a little less schadenfreude.[/quote]

lul wut?

Seriously? Compassion on what level? They didn’t die, they made a choice and now they’re paying the piper.

8

[quote]gonepostal wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Shitty situation. They’re both great lifters, and I hope they don’t leave the sport permanently. I also hope that the US weightlifting community can learn how to show a little more compassion and a little less schadenfreude.[/quote]

lul wut?

Seriously? Compassion on what level? They didn’t die, they made a choice and now they’re paying the piper. [/quote]

Well you guys test your weightlifters rigidly but you have NFL and baseball doping and i don’t believe they are tested this much.

Plus top level weightlifters are admired but when one of your own gets caught their condemned.

9

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]gonepostal wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Shitty situation. They’re both great lifters, and I hope they don’t leave the sport permanently. I also hope that the US weightlifting community can learn how to show a little more compassion and a little less schadenfreude.[/quote]

lul wut?

Seriously? Compassion on what level? They didn’t die, they made a choice and now they’re paying the piper. [/quote]

Well you guys test your weightlifters rigidly but you have NFL and baseball doping and i don’t believe they are tested this much.

Plus top level weightlifters are admired but when one of your own gets caught their condemned. [/quote]

International Vs. National level sports

uhhh yeah that’s because doping is banned.

10

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]gonepostal wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Shitty situation. They’re both great lifters, and I hope they don’t leave the sport permanently. I also hope that the US weightlifting community can learn how to show a little more compassion and a little less schadenfreude.[/quote]

lul wut?

Seriously? Compassion on what level? They didn’t die, they made a choice and now they’re paying the piper. [/quote]

Well you guys test your weightlifters rigidly but you have NFL and baseball doping and i don’t believe they are tested this much.

Plus top level weightlifters are admired but when one of your own gets caught their condemned. [/quote]

^This. It is a lose/lose situation for our lifters. They get ridiculed if they are unable to compete at an international level, and demonized if they get busted for doping. I am referring to dialogues that have appeared on other forums, in which anonymous posters seem to take an inordinate amount of pleasure in the misfortunes of others. I, for one, think our top lifters should do whatever it takes to win medals on an international stage.

11

[quote]bcingu wrote:

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]gonepostal wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Shitty situation. They’re both great lifters, and I hope they don’t leave the sport permanently. I also hope that the US weightlifting community can learn how to show a little more compassion and a little less schadenfreude.[/quote]

lul wut?

Seriously? Compassion on what level? They didn’t die, they made a choice and now they’re paying the piper. [/quote]

Well you guys test your weightlifters rigidly but you have NFL and baseball doping and i don’t believe they are tested this much.

Plus top level weightlifters are admired but when one of your own gets caught their condemned. [/quote]

^This. It is a lose/lose situation for our lifters. They get ridiculed if they are unable to compete at an international level, and demonized if they get busted for doping. I am referring to dialogues that have appeared on other forums, in which anonymous posters seem to take an inordinate amount of pleasure in the misfortunes of others. I, for one, think our top lifters should do whatever it takes to win medals on an international stage.[/quote]

Then you are saying you want them to cheat. Why even bother competing? Why not just do exhibition crap? It’s not like you can make a decent living weightlifting. It’s all about the love of the sport.

12

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]gonepostal wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Shitty situation. They’re both great lifters, and I hope they don’t leave the sport permanently. I also hope that the US weightlifting community can learn how to show a little more compassion and a little less schadenfreude.[/quote]

lul wut?

Seriously? Compassion on what level? They didn’t die, they made a choice and now they’re paying the piper. [/quote]

Well you guys test your weightlifters rigidly but you have NFL and baseball doping and i don’t believe they are tested this much.

Plus top level weightlifters are admired but when one of your own gets caught their condemned. [/quote]

^This. It is a lose/lose situation for our lifters. They get ridiculed if they are unable to compete at an international level, and demonized if they get busted for doping. I am referring to dialogues that have appeared on other forums, in which anonymous posters seem to take an inordinate amount of pleasure in the misfortunes of others. I, for one, think our top lifters should do whatever it takes to win medals on an international stage.[/quote]

Then you are saying you want them to cheat. Why even bother competing? Why not just do exhibition crap? It’s not like you can make a decent living weightlifting. It’s all about the love of the sport.
[/quote]

I want to see a level playing field. I would prefer it if that meant no drugs at all, but this is not an ideal world in which we live.

13

[quote]bcingu wrote:
I want to see a level playing field. I would prefer it if that meant no drugs at all, but this is not an ideal world in which we live.[/quote]

That won’t make it a level playing field though, not as long as it’s against the rules and there are people abiding by the rules. And then when you win what does that really make you the best at?

That’s like saying if other countries are paying off figure skating judges and we want medals we need to start paying them off too.

14

I understand the dilemma but jumping on board will kill weightlifting as a sport. There is more to the sport than the International competitions and it’s really shitty to want to sacrifice the ENTIRE sport, at all levels, so one or two guys MIGHT get a medal but probably not because drugs alone won’t make the USA champions.

15

i think what the others are trying to say Debra, is on the international level, ALL world class athletes are doping to some extent. Glen Pendaly talked about this in length in an interview, cant find the link right now.

also, some say that our weightlifters are tested way more than other countries.

the asians and europeans are just way better at beating the tests.

if we want to compete at an international level, our guys will have to dope.

edit:

here, glenn says it better than I do:

"This happened because we created a real moral dilemna for our athletes. Our society as a whole is very anti-steroid… they are demonized here. I am not saying this is good or bad, its just how it is. And, within the sport of weightlifting in the USA, drugs, and cheating is widely considered to be almost “evil”. This is not the case in other countries where steroids and performance enhancing drugs are not illegal, and not looked down upon.

And this is why positives are viewed differently by different people. For some, it is viewed as cheating and morally reprehensable, for others it is viewed as evidence that we are willing to play the game the way others do and finally get back to the top.

And this is why we keep argueing about it "

16

I realize that but I disagree. You can’t say that ALL world class athletes are doping to some extent because that is just plain false.

But again there is the rest of the sport, the national meets, the regionals, the state meets…all the meets that are open to all competitors. Drugs in the sport will make those pointless. If Canada went that way I wouldn’t bother competing. You need 12 year olds with coaches and broomsticks to get champions and that also won’t happen if the sport becomes ok with doping.

Now for a sport that doesn’t make anyone any money, what the hell is the point in killing it just for a couple of guys?

17

Playing a little bit of devil’s advocate here . . .

[quote]debraD wrote:
I realize that but I disagree. You can’t say that ALL world class athletes are doping to some extent because that is just plain false.[/quote]

It’s an assertion that can’t be proven or disproven. The only way to definitively know if someone is doping or not is if they piss hot. Then we know they doped. Besides that, we just can’t know whether or not everybody’s actually clean. And everything I’ve read online or heard in person (both currently as a weightlifter and formerly as a wrestler) indicates that the vast majority of internationally competitive athletes are on something. Everybody’s looking for that edge because everybody wants to win.

[quote]debraD wrote:
But again there is the rest of the sport, the national meets, the regionals, the state meets…all the meets that are open to all competitors. Drugs in the sport will make those pointless.[/quote]

Lots of national/regional level meets have qualifying standards and are thus not open to all competitors. And I fail to see how drugs in the sport would make these competitions pointless. Are you trying to say that if drug use was widespread and accepted there would no longer be a need to determine who the best lifter in a particular region/nation is?

[quote]debraD wrote:
If Canada went that way I wouldn’t bother competing. You need 12 year olds with coaches and broomsticks to get champions and that also won’t happen if the sport becomes ok with doping.[/quote]

I fail to see the logical connection between getting people interested in the sport at a young age (and getting them quality coaching), and whether or not drug use is widespread and/or more accepted. Maybe I’m missing something, but I think those two are largely separate issues (or should be, at least).

[quote]debraD wrote:
Now for a sport that doesn’t make anyone any money, what the hell is the point in killing it just for a couple of guys?
[/quote]

I don’t think the acceptance of drug use as a necessary tool to be the best in the world has to kill the sport of weightlifting in North America. Unfortunately, as Glenn Pendlay said (thanks for finding that quote HT), PEDs are demonized viciously in North America. That mindset (which I think shows through to some extent in your opinions here) would have to change before drug use could be accepted at any level.

I’m trying to stay objective here and not put a moral spin on what I’m saying. To be honest I’m not sure which side of the fence I fall on. But I don’t think the realization that one has to take drugs to be competitive at the highest echelons of the sport necessarily has to kill the sport at all levels. It’s a choice that every serious athlete already makes at some point in their career. You have to decide how bad you want to be on that podium and what you’re willing to risk to win. For better or for worse, it seems that in North America athletes are risking a lot more when they choose to break the rules and use PEDs than athletes in other parts of the world.

Gonna kill this post before I write a full essay here.

18

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
I want to see a level playing field. I would prefer it if that meant no drugs at all, but this is not an ideal world in which we live.[/quote]

That won’t make it a level playing field though, not as long as it’s against the rules and there are people abiding by the rules.[/quote]

It would be a level playing field for the very best competitors. The ones who are actually medalling at the Olympics at WWC’s. As long as the top competitors are (presumably) doping, then that is what is required in order to be competitive. No, this is not fair to any of the other competitors who will probably place outside of the top ten. I wish this were not the case.

[quote]debraD wrote:
And then when you win what does that really make you the best at?
[/quote]

It would make you the best at Olympic Weightlifting. As an example…one could argue that China, presently, is the best at weightlifting. I’m not sure many people would argue that they are not the best because of doping. Perhaps you would.

Also, let me hasten to add that no one can be absolutely sure of the extent to which each individual country is doping. That’s why I don’t fully buy into that as an excuse for America’s poor placing, internationally.

Furthermore, arguing about steroids on a weightlifting forum is pretty cliché. Let’s go back to talking about sexy weightlifters or shoes or something…

19

[quote]gonepostal wrote:

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]gonepostal wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Shitty situation. They’re both great lifters, and I hope they don’t leave the sport permanently. I also hope that the US weightlifting community can learn how to show a little more compassion and a little less schadenfreude.[/quote]

lul wut?

Seriously? Compassion on what level? They didn’t die, they made a choice and now they’re paying the piper. [/quote]

Well you guys test your weightlifters rigidly but you have NFL and baseball doping and i don’t believe they are tested this much.

Plus top level weightlifters are admired but when one of your own gets caught their condemned. [/quote]

International Vs. National level sports

uhhh yeah that’s because doping is banned.
[/quote]

I think it might have a lot less to do with international vs national and a lot more to do with the amount of money that comes in from people paying to see freaks clobber each other on the gridiron or hit crushing home runs up onto the upper deck.

And I believe swole was referring to the apparent disparity between how people view foreign lifters (who are commonly believed to be doping) versus domestic lifters who get caught or are believed to be doping, and yet are lifting less weight. Just off the top of my head, Akkaev, Podobedova and Kashirina have all tested positive in the past, and all three will be gunning for gold medals in London, yet it seems they are not held to the same level of criticism as domestic lifters. And I don’t know anyone naive enough to believe an international competitor will stop using once they get caught.

20

[quote]debraD wrote:
I realize that but I disagree. You can’t say that ALL world class athletes are doping to some extent because that is just plain false.

But again there is the rest of the sport, the national meets, the regionals, the state meets…all the meets that are open to all competitors. Drugs in the sport will make those pointless. If Canada went that way I wouldn’t bother competing. You need 12 year olds with coaches and broomsticks to get champions and that also won’t happen if the sport becomes ok with doping.

Now for a sport that doesn’t make anyone any money, what the hell is the point in killing it just for a couple of guys?
[/quote]

Eh, I can’t claim to care nearly as much about local and regional meets. Though I admit to being disenchanted with USAW and competing personally.

It does strike me as being considerably more unjust to have someone doping and competing at these levels, though I think you are being way too dramatic when you describe it as KILLING the sport.