Okay so I do te Firefighter Combat Challenge. If you haven’t seen it on ESPN, its where a bunchh of crazy ass firefighters get to together and get fully dressed in Fire Fighter gear, wear a mask and air pack. Then run up some stairs with 45 lbs of hose(5 flights) then pull up 45 lbs of hose with a rope(5 flights), then run down the stairs not missing any of them. That was the easy part, then you hit a K-sled with a sledge hammer, then run around some cones, grab a charged hand line, run 100 feet, spray a target, then comes the hard part. You have to drag a 185 lbs, 6 feet tall dummy 100 feet.
By the 25 foot mark you just want to quit. Did i tell you the best in the world do this in 1:20 min. I can do it in 1:40 (last year). So my question is, does any one know of any good strength and quickness excersizes. I’m about 6’3" 235. I work out fiveto six times a week. I have a 34" waist so I’m not to fat, but I drink some beer every once in a while. I never have done any type of power lifting so if I do start, what would be a good starting point? Can some one please help. One more thing, this is for my buddy that likes to make smart ass statments, GO PLAY EVERQUEST 2 WITH THE OTHER DORKS IN THE DORMS. Yes I mean Hyland!
lol @ that challenge. A more job-specific one would be get a new high score on the playstation, beat the old hands at table tennis and then eat 25 rounds of toast and 4 mugs of tea, all the while praying that the bells don’t go down.
[quote]juninho wrote:
lol @ that challenge. A more job-specific one would be get a new high score on the playstation, beat the old hands at table tennis and then eat 25 rounds of toast and 4 mugs of tea, all the while praying that the bells don’t go down.[/quote]
[quote]ZEB wrote:
juninho wrote:
lol @ that challenge. A more job-specific one would be get a new high score on the playstation, beat the old hands at table tennis and then eat 25 rounds of toast and 4 mugs of tea, all the while praying that the bells don’t go down.
LOL…(crude but very funny)
[/quote]
First off, you two must be the Jolly volly type. Because if you worked where I work you would be fired. Second, if you could get off the coach and try this, I bet you couldn’t even finish less than 3 min.
[quote]jodyhack wrote:
Okay so I do te Firefighter Combat Challenge. If you haven’t seen it on ESPN, its where a bunchh of crazy ass firefighters get to together and get fully dressed in Fire Fighter gear, wear a mask and air pack. Then run up some stairs with 45 lbs of hose(5 flights) then pull up 45 lbs of hose with a rope(5 flights), then run down the stairs not missing any of them. That was the easy part, then you hit a K-sled with a sledge hammer, then run around some cones, grab a charged hand line, run 100 feet, spray a target, then comes the hard part. You have to drag a 185 lbs, 6 feet tall dummy 100 feet.
By the 25 foot mark you just want to quit. Did i tell you the best in the world do this in 1:20 min. I can do it in 1:40 (last year). So my question is, does any one know of any good strength and quickness excersizes. I’m about 6’3" 235. I work out fiveto six times a week. I have a 34" waist so I’m not to fat, but I drink some beer every once in a while. I never have done any type of power lifting so if I do start, what would be a good starting point? Can some one please help. One more thing, this is for my buddy that likes to make smart ass statments, GO PLAY EVERQUEST 2 WITH THE OTHER DORKS IN THE DORMS. Yes I mean Hyland![/quote]
"First off, you two must be the Jolly volly type. Because if you worked where I work you would be fired. Second, if you could get off the coach and try this, I bet you couldn’t even finish less than 3 min. "
First off, I don’t know what the jolly volly type is. Second off, I aint budging my bloated cake-munching body from the couch while Wimbledon is on…
Anyway, I’m shitting you - we’re forced to work for a living over here these days.
Re your actual question, use the search facility and look for some Coach Davies articles. I reckon his penchant for odd-lifts and GPP stuff might be suitable for that kind of thing.
Trying to see the point in this thread. Typical firefighter ball-busting going on and the youngn’ is getting his panties in a bunch.
ANALYZE
EDUCATE
PERFORM
FEEDBACK
REVIEW
IMPROVE
Yeah that’s not a secret mnemonic, but if that doesn’t make sense as it pertains to firefighting or the combat challenge then you’re fuct.
What can be done to improve your combat challenge results? You mention dragging a 185lb dummy as difficult. Then should you even be 235lbs? Improve the strength to weight ratio. It sounds terrible- like ‘big for nuthin’. SO you may want to look at shedding some of your excess weight till your relative strength is up to par. Dragging dead weight isn’t all that hard on a hard surface, even after all those events. Then again I’ve done CrossFit-like workouts and weightlifting before I heard of CrossFit and with CrossFit, work just gets easier.
So maybe you should play around with CrossFit. It is ideal for firefighters. Maybe not for calendar firefighters though, the aim isn’t for “pretty-muscles”.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
chubs108 wrote:
“So maybe you should play around with CrossFit. It is ideal for firefighters.”
No it isn’t. [/quote]
As one of the many firefighters who do CrossFit for their conditioning, it is very ideal.
Is CrossFit ideal for building muscle and everything else T-Nation stands for? No. Your arguement can now fester in another thread you can create. Now leave the fire fighters to being better fit fire fighters and less calendar model.
[quote]jodyhack wrote:
Okay so I do te Firefighter Combat Challenge. If you haven’t seen it on ESPN, its where a bunchh of crazy ass firefighters get to together and get fully dressed in Fire Fighter gear, wear a mask and air pack. Then run up some stairs with 45 lbs of hose(5 flights) then pull up 45 lbs of hose with a rope(5 flights), then run down the stairs not missing any of them. That was the easy part, then you hit a K-sled with a sledge hammer, then run around some cones, grab a charged hand line, run 100 feet, spray a target, then comes the hard part. You have to drag a 185 lbs, 6 feet tall dummy 100 feet.
By the 25 foot mark you just want to quit. Did i tell you the best in the world do this in 1:20 min. I can do it in 1:40 (last year). So my question is, does any one know of any good strength and quickness excersizes. I’m about 6’3" 235. I work out fiveto six times a week. I have a 34" waist so I’m not to fat, but I drink some beer every once in a while. I never have done any type of power lifting so if I do start, what would be a good starting point? Can some one please help. One more thing, this is for my buddy that likes to make smart ass statments, GO PLAY EVERQUEST 2 WITH THE OTHER DORKS IN THE DORMS. Yes I mean Hyland![/quote]
One way (not the easy way) to improve is to double everything in practice. Work on pulling up 90 lbs. of hose 10 flights. Buy an X-vest and get a larger dummy. But working and exceeding all the contest limits, you will get used to (or die trying) to the heavier program. This will make the “real” contest way easier due to the lighter loads. This is way harder than just working out/exercising for it, but then being a champion has never been free.
[quote]chubs108 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
chubs108 wrote:
“So maybe you should play around with CrossFit. It is ideal for firefighters.”
No it isn’t.
As one of the many firefighters who do CrossFit for their conditioning, it is very ideal.
Is CrossFit ideal for building muscle and everything else T-Nation stands for? No. Your arguement can now fester in another thread you can create. Now leave the fire fighters to being better fit fire fighters and less calendar model.
[/quote]
That training model might be great for you, if so keep doing it.
However, you made a claim that I simply disagree with. I wouldn’t want the typical fireman on this forum to think that crossfit is the best way to train, as it’s probably not.
If a typical firefighter went through the typical “wod” they would indeed be burned out (no pun intended) in a relatively short period of time.
There are far superior methods to getting in good condition. Some suggestions on this thread have been good.
By the way, if you think that T-Nation training advice (from some of the best Coach’s in the world) only produces “calendar model” physiques, then you need to spend more time here and less at crossfit!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
That training model might be great for you, if so keep doing it.
However, you made a claim that I simply disagree with. I wouldn’t want the typical fireman on this forum to think that crossfit is the best way to train, as it’s probably not.
If a typical firefighter went through the typical “wod” they would indeed be burned out (no pun intended) in a relatively short period of time.
There are far superior methods to getting in good condition. Some suggestions on this thread have been good.
By the way, if you think that T-Nation training advice (from some of the best Coach’s in the world) only produces “calendar model” physiques, then you need to spend more time here and less at crossfit!
[/quote]
Ah once again putting words into people’s posts about CrossFit. Let me correct your ignorance which takes care of everything you talk crap about.
Never said it was the best for firefighters, nor did I say there was nothing more superior. I said it was ideal for fire fighters. Obviously the regular fire fighters you base your knowledge on are not conditioned.
Never said T-Nation is about making calendar model physiques. I directly posted that comment for you to see how you could twist it around. Obviously you took the bait. Everything T-Nation stands for is not addressed in CrossFit. Which I clearly stated. Even though when you think about it a good T-Nation workout can produce calendar model physique, but also much more.
Now pertaining to your contribution…
The member who opened this post wanted suggestions for improving his Combat Challenge time. CrossFit’s stuff is free and it works in relation to what this post is about.
Nationally speaking fire fighters may not have the money on hand for programs geared for fire fighters. I believe John Davies has a program directed towards fire fighters. It is not free. Many other programs found in books and the internet directed towards fire fighter training is the cookie cutter programs that even T-Nation despises most of the time.
One of the best training programs I’ve ever seen and used for fire fighting prior to finding out about CrossFit was directed towards conditioning for wrestling and mixed martial arts. Excellent but chances of completing a whole workout while at the house was small. That is unless you are housed at a slow, boring house where you can collect dust just waiting for a false alarm even.
The bulk or important stuff in a workout of CrossFit ideas can be completed in at least 15 minutes of course times increase as one increases their recovery time in between work sets. So your time-window to workout is not too much of a problem. Now of course beyond conditioning, if a fire fighter wants to fulfill different goals under the bar then so be it…the only goal being addressed here is conditioning and having better abilities for something like the Combat Challenge.
“Typical” fire fighters do not exist.
FYI many fire fighters I have known through the years believed that doing triathalons, high reps with light weights, and doing massive amounts of cardio stuff is the best conditioning for fire fighters. Strangely these same guys were strong as hell, but not from weightroom work. Majority of my fellow brothers are laborers, martial artists, longshoremen, aka “dad-strength” ethusiasts. Goes to prove what else works, but not everyone new coming into firefighting has had this “luxury”.
ZEB what is the typical fire fighter?
Remember, before you ended up putting your foot in your keyboard…my word was “ideal”, your’s was “best”.
Shamelessly, ZEB, you once again hijack with nothing to offer (isn’t this what a troll is)…not even experience in fire fighting. Just experience in bashing CrossFit when it comes up. What else can be said? I know, Go do your pull ups.
[quote]jodyhack wrote:
Okay so I do te Firefighter Combat Challenge. If you haven’t seen it on ESPN, its where a bunchh of crazy ass firefighters get to together and get fully dressed in Fire Fighter gear, wear a mask and air pack. Then run up some stairs with 45 lbs of hose(5 flights) then pull up 45 lbs of hose with a rope(5 flights), then run down the stairs not missing any of them. That was the easy part, then you hit a K-sled with a sledge hammer, then run around some cones, grab a charged hand line, run 100 feet, spray a target, then comes the hard part. You have to drag a 185 lbs, 6 feet tall dummy 100 feet.
By the 25 foot mark you just want to quit. Did i tell you the best in the world do this in 1:20 min. I can do it in 1:40 (last year). So my question is, does any one know of any good strength and quickness excersizes. I’m about 6’3" 235. I work out fiveto six times a week. I have a 34" waist so I’m not to fat, but I drink some beer every once in a while. I never have done any type of power lifting so if I do start, what would be a good starting point? Can some one please help. One more thing, this is for my buddy that likes to make smart ass statments, GO PLAY EVERQUEST 2 WITH THE OTHER DORKS IN THE DORMS. Yes I mean Hyland![/quote]
What I have found to be very time efficient and practical for training elite athletes is High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). Time efficient in that you get a maximum workout in a very short time and practical because you can adapt it to virtually any sport / acitivity you are involved in.
A Japanese gentleman named Tabata designed it for the Japanese Olympic Speed Skating team. The results were amazing. I have used it training college volleyball players and the results speak for themselves.
Dan John did an article on T-Nation that speaks directly to this. It is a good read. I do it differently in that for one workout, I do a non-resisted exercise using the HIIT protocol and one resisted exercise using the HIIT protocol, with a five-seven minute rest in between.
The boost in aerobic capacity is good but the boost in anaerobic capacity is great. As for efficiency, total workout time: 15 minutes, rest included.
[quote]chubs108 wrote:
Ah once again putting words into people’s posts about CrossFit. Let me correct your ignorance which takes care of everything you talk crap about…[/quote]
Wow, you really got ticked off huh? Do you own stock in the crossfit company? Hey, it’s a web site man relax. Your over reaction speaks volumes about the bias which is to come.
Let’s see…how do I break this to you? The word “ideal” means “perfect.” “The very standard, or model of perfection.” You see, I took that to mean you thought crossfit was the best. If you are now backing off of your “ideal” statement, fine. As crossfit is far from the best method to train most firefighters. Are you really attempting to draw a distinction between “ideal” and “best.” That actually reads as pretty desperate.
Furthermore, how much conditioning does one need before they begin a conditioning program? Ha…nutty statement you made.
LOL, “took the bait.” Yea, I’m inclined to defend T-Nation when someone infers that T-Nation stands for simply building “Calendar models.”
Matters not at this point. Glad to see that you have backed down from your original statement. By the way do you think you could go over to the crossfit message board and insult the web site and still have a workable password to get into the thing? No…guess not, does that tell you something about the site?
[quote]Now pertaining to your contribution…
The member who opened this post wanted suggestions for improving his Combat Challenge time. CrossFit’s stuff is free and it works in relation to what this post is about…[/quote]
Yes, and you usually (not in the case of T-Nation) get what you pay for! Also, I think “crossfit stuff” does work for some, but I believe it would not work for most firefighters. My original contribution to his cause was attempting to steer him away from something that is inferior. You are here (apparently) only to promote crossfit. Do they pay you a commission?
I see, so if they can’t afford anything better then you recommend crossfit. Is this what you are stating? I don’t want to twist your words. If they do have the money would you say John Davies program is better? I’m asking.
[quote]One of the best training programs I’ve ever seen and used for fire fighting prior to finding out about CrossFit was directed towards conditioning for wrestling and mixed martial arts. Excellent but chances of completing a whole workout while at the house was small. That is unless you are housed at a slow, boring house where you can collect dust just waiting for a false alarm even.
The bulk or important stuff in a workout of CrossFit ideas can be completed in at least 15 minutes of course times increase as one increases their recovery time in between work sets. So your time-window to workout is not too much of a problem. Now of course beyond conditioning, if a fire fighter wants to fulfill different goals under the bar then so be it…the only goal being addressed here is conditioning and having better abilities for something like the Combat Challenge…[/quote]
Here is where you are actually disagreeing with what crossfit “sells.” In fact, the crossfit web site promotes their methods to be better than Bodybuilding (without steroids). They are talking about building “bulk.” However, they offer no reasonable way to build bulk. Do you even realize this?
Don’t take my word for it. Read this load of crap yourself (right off the site):
"…according to Coach, Here is a hierarchy of training for mass from greater to lesser efficacy:
Bodybuilding on steroids
CrossFitting on steroids
CrossFitting without steroids
Bodybuilding without steroids
The bodybuilding model is designed around, requires, steroids for significant hypertrophy.
The neuroendocrine response of bodybuilding protocols is so blunted that without “exogenous hormonal therapy” little happens.
The CrossFit protocol is designed to elicit a substantial neuroendocrine whollop and hence packs an anabolic punch that puts on impressive amounts of muscle though that is not our concern. Strength is.
Natural bodybuilders (the natural ones that are not on steroids) never approach the mass that our ahtletes do. They don’t come close…"
Wow, crossfit is better at building muscle than the typical Bodybuilding regime. “The Bodybuilding model requires steroids” they say. “Requires steroids?” Well that’s news to me and the other thousands of guys who have built muscle without steroids using full BB movements.
I guess your “coach” thinks that performing squats and deadlifts with weights are somehow inferior to say doing 15 Push-ups and running 1/4 mile. Ha ha…I won’t say that your coach is a liar…let’s just say he’s full of crap on this one!
Oh, but they do! I have trained many firefighters (and Police officers among others) and the “typical” firefighter really does not look a lot better than the typical non-firefighter. Let’s face it many of them could not do crossfit for any length of time, nor would they even want to!
We can agree on that.
Someone who won’t (or cannot) do the typical wod.
I think it is you who “put your foot on your keyboard” when you attempted to draw a distinction between the words “best” and “ideal.” You only need to crack your webster to see that they are basically the same thing. In fact an argument could be made that “ideal” is even a higher standard. However, I look at the two words (as does the rest of the world)as being on par with each other. However to make you feel better: crossfit is not the ideal method for most firefighters! Like that better?
Wrong again! Take a look at who wrote the mother of all posts on this thread. It was you my little crossfit blinded friend. You felt compelled to hijack the thread and attempt a (feeble) defense of crossfit. And why did you do this?
You did this because when you posted those famous words: “So maybe you should play around with crossfit. It is IDEAL for firefighters.” I had the audacity to type: “No it isn’t.”
“No it isn’t” was my advice. Not to you, but to the original poster. This was my three words to alert him to the fact that most any other program directly related to firefighting, if followed properly would work better than crossfit.
I’m sorry that you got all upset over this topic. However, I can’t see someone wasting their time on crossfit (as some do) when they could actually find a program which will help them and something that they would enjoy and stick with.
Unless of course they enjoy puking. I think your coach stated something about puking making a man out of you-not a direct quote but close enough. How many of the quality coache’s on this site have stated that that is not the proper way to train, for any sort of activity!
If you want to continue this discussion I invite you to PM me as I think you have wasted enough time defending crossfit on a thread which has nothing to do with crossfit. That my friend is troll like behavior!
The Dan John article is outstanding! I won’t say it’s the most “ideal” way for a firefighter to train, but it sure beats the heck out of doing the crossfit wod.
Ah yeah forgot, no one is allowed to defend their position if it’s different than ZEB’s unsupported claim. Which is what I would like to read on this thread rather than empty-caloric claims that CrossFit is useless for firefighting conditioning.
ZEB, What training programs are IDEAL for fire fighters and all that they are supposed to do?
First let me be first to be not surprised of your reply, “anything but CrossFit”.
The firefighting conditioning program given by the IAFF resembles a basic ACE-sponsored circuit program using the leg press, leg extensions, leg curls, dumbbell curls, chest press machines, lateral raises, lat pull downs, crunches, crunching machines, tricep pushdowns and kickbacks, and other favorites of gyms around the nation and not always recommended by T-Nation. I am still waiting for this cookie cutter program to develop better conditioned female fire fighters…hardly happens without extra work outside of the cookie box. While anything is better than nothing, this sponsored program isn’t that much of an improvement.
As far as your claim of CrossFit’s stance and support on puking as a standard, till date puking hasn’t happened to myself or other professional fire fighters that do CrossFit WODs or mods of them. Probably because the ‘Train Smarter, Not Harder’ precedes CrossFit’s jungle juice/kool aide mentality. Which is something you are more capable to slum together in CrossFit than separate like the ‘smarter’ people.
CrossFit is still IDEAL for firefighting conditioning. Not the best, just IDEAL. CrossFit is merely a “binder” of methods that work. More education is needed to fine tune the generalities that exist in CrossFit. Something you still fail to mention.
For the firefighter that wants to improve his Combat Challenge time, the ideas presented by CrossFit are IDEAL for him. He is already has good conditioning to do most of the WODs as is most of the average fire fighters I have worked with here in the middle of the Pacfic.
You don’t deserve the respect of PM exchanges…out of the hundreds that drank the CF kool aide, compared to the thousands who didn’t, you must have had a taste. You eat up all the useless crap CrossFit gives along with the useful stuff and get them all confused under a blanket of ZEB-facism. BTW there are many CrossFit users who use T-Nation as their education resource. They love the information and ideas here.
Now cease your incestual rage and offer the Combat Challenge contestant something more than CrossFit is not ideal compared to other programs you refuse to present. Waste your fingers in providing stuff rather than just saying CF is junk. Then I will cease easily placing your posts back on the monkey you hitched a ride on into this forum.
On a more non-argumentive note: ZEB, If you are capable of reading or grasping what’s useful, rather than Guru-izing CrossFit around it’s useless claims, you would be able to understand my position of it being “IDEAL for firefighters” and see how the WODs and advice that is given by experienced CrossFit members make it so. My purpose was never to throw a WOD onto a firefighter as you might think I stood for. You’ve got to develop a base level of conditioning or get in shape before you get into condition doing the WODs, mod or not. This point is clearly explained by several members of CrossFit and in many of the more useful journals they do sell (which unfortunately are not most of the recent journals).
CrossFit does not hold anything over T-Nation. Never said it did, were you trying to say that I meant to say that? We know what T-Nation “rules”- because T-Nation covers a more broad selection of physical and mental abilities- and it doesn’t need to spit out claims, like that of some “coach” that you hold dearly as grounds for arguing against CrossFit. I merely argue about it as far as it works.
CrossFit is penned by you to be anti-bodybuilding? I think even they didn’t have their facts together when they made that bold statement similar to other commercial-based gurus. You did see that they were trying to appeal to the population of people who are scared away by the popular notion of bodybuilding? The CF hype in that respect is crap, I never relied on these claims. In fact, I didn’t quite get to those claims until you mentioned them in a CF thread a while back. At first I didn’t believe you till I found it. Wow, been doing CF for about a little under 3 yrs and never once did I see these anti-bodybuilding claims. You’ve opened my eyes (sarcasm). Yoga and pilates trendy-peeps generally “spit” on weight training, strength training, and bodybuilding as much as CF- you can start a thread on that later, even that stuff claims to be complete in their training. Yeah, there’s no need to argue it’s a waste. Most of the instructors of yoga I worked with actually do less BB-spitting and more towards improving their style. Guess it’s another incidence of the sheep trying to run the world rather than improve themselves.
Well onthe other spectrum, a more in-house range, there are many bodybuilding enthusiasts not using T-Nation resources that say that T-Nation is useless for bodybuilding and all the articles are hype to sell Biotest stuff just to achieve desired results. Yeah, we all know you don’t really need the supplements, but they do help some people. Sometimes it’s hard to explain to a squat-curler that even though T-Nation doesn’t present excellent workouts for the leg press doesn’t make it useless (among other topics). That being said, Do people always look at the ads before checking out the resources of information? Most do that a lot.
As far as my passion for my career, that’s too bad that the fire fighters you have trained are not in condition enough to do a WOD. The steering committee I am a part of recognizes such fire fighters and we’ve organized life-long training plans, it actually adapts to a member’s abilties as they progress, for them and others already in decent shape in hopes that they will choose to follow it as an outline even after they retire. Many of the ideas I’ve presented to the committe have been influenced by T-Nation (as a whole) and by CrossFit (as it pertains to tactical strength and stamina).
So I hope your training program has your fire fighting clients capable of making CrossFit WODs look like child’s play. That would be awesome. A contribution on your methods would be excellent for this thread. So please find the time to contribute useful methods and less time passing along judgements of methods you may not be educated enough to use. Which is funny since most of the methods I find valuable in CrossFit are also supported here at T-Nation.
For example: Tabata intervals, 400m sprints, dips and pull ups, squats, deads, dynamic warm ups, olympic lifts, max effort, high and low volume work…
The only difference I find between the two websites is that CF provides something to do everyday with brainpower used only on figuring out work loads. The brainwork in planning is done for the user. Oh and that they recommend that the dynamic warm up should be fairly easy or moderate before taking on the WODs. I dunno if this is an idea supported by T-Nation.
I still find your arguments to be sillier than my responses. Like you’re holding onto a grudge. Oh I used to go on their message board and question many of their claims. Sadly they cannot go back in time and erase their journals’ claims, so they do what they can only do and move forward better educated. I’ve never been stripped of my password or member profile- so you must have been a very immature member to have your profile and password stripped from you. Oh and I did confront CrossFit peeps on their aura of “worship” that they have. They’re american, americans tend to worship very easily- like rock n roll. They were pissed at me yet got my point and left me alone. I don’t know what you did over there, and frankly I don’t care since it must be similar to what you do here. I guess they are not that intolerable
For all who are curious about CrossFit since it does get mentioned a few times here and there- you gotta be in decent shape to do the WODs or have the education to modify them for the better of you. In other words look at the work and education involved rather than the hype. When you delve on the hype you can get futless like ZEB.
Like Bruce Lee has taught- “Take what is useful (in this case the work and education), and discard that which is useless (in this case the hype).”
The Dan John article is outstanding! I won’t say it’s the most “ideal” way for a firefighter to train, but it sure beats the heck out of doing the crossfit wod.[/quote]
I have adapted it to a vertical jump program that I have designed.
We begin with a mild warmup, usually with a light volleyball drill, then go into a part of the jump program that we do not use in the HIIT fashion. We do 3 sets of twenty five of these preliminary jumps, rest for 2 minutes, then go into the HIIT for the remaining 3 exercises. Believe me when I say that by the end of those 4.5 minutes, we are exhausted.
From there, we rest for about five minutes, load up on water, and make our way to the weight room. Since the girl I am training and I are the only ones using the equipment, we do an intense circuit training routine. It consists of five exercises plus two resisted ab exercises. The five exercises are done at 80% 1RM and she does 8-12 in good form with a 2/4 cadence to momentary muscular failure, before moving to the next set. I have set up all the weights and machines in advance, so she only takes 10-15 seconds between each exercise. The ab work is not to failure. This is known as High Intensity Training (HIT). Effective for building strength, efficient in time, and good for cardio.
AFter this is completed, we rest (although I do the jumping, I don’t do the weights with her, better to supervise, at least that’s my story) for about 5 minutes before going to yet another HIIT set. I do a modified “thruster” where I use 25# dumbells and squat with my arms hanging straight by my side. On the way up, I curl the dumbells and repeat. I usually get 9 reps in 20 seconds. My trainee uses five pound dumbells and does a lunge. On the way up, she will either do a press or a front shoulder raise.
At the end of the 4 minutes, my heart rate is at about 180 BPM and hers is about 170-175. I have a puddle on the ground where I was working out.
Once again, you can adapt any exercise to meet your needs.
[quote]chubs108 wrote:
Ah yeah forgot, no one is allowed to defend their position if it’s different than ZEB’s unsupported claim. Which is what I would like to read on this thread rather than empty-caloric claims that CrossFit is useless for firefighting conditioning.[/quote]
But it was you who stated that I hijacked the thread. You are obviously allowed to post whatever you like. However, don’t accuse others of “hijacking” because of three words: “No it won’t.” When in fact you have now typed a small book to defend crossfit."
[quote]ZEB, What training programs are IDEAL for fire fighters and all that they are supposed to do?
First let me be first to be not surprised of your reply, “anything but CrossFit”.[/quote]
Actually, the Dan John program spoken of on this thread is very good as I have already pointed out. Also, if you comb the files of T-Nation you will see dozens of programs which would help firefighters far more than the typical crossfit wod.
We can agree on this!
When I look at a site, or a program, I look at it in it’s totality. Smart people do that no? If they are so very wrong on so very many things (as crossfit is) that sort of takes away their credibility. It appears you are now saying that crossfit has a “kool aide mentality.” I’m glad to see that you are capable of seeing this, most on the site are not!
No it isn’t! You have just made a statement above that you must pick and choose. You are basically picking movements and methods that have been around for decades. You can call them crossfit if you want, but that is not the case.
You cling to “ideal” meaning something substantially different than the “best” I see. I think that speaks to a certain stubbornness that is quite apparent. Crossfit as it is promoted on their web site does not work for most people! If you want to delve into what’s wrong with it and eliminate all of that and simply choose to perform “some” of the movements that they promote then sure you might have something there. However, don’t walk around calling it “crossfit” because it is not!
“The ideas presented by crossfit?” Once again you are not talking about the crossfit program(s) as they are presented on their dictorial website. What you now speak of is different.
My suggestion of a PM was to avoid exactly what we are doing now! Why did hijack this thread when we could have easily had this discussion in PM? I don’t deserve the respect of a PM exchange, but I do deserve countless pages on an open thread? (shaking head)
No I never “had a taste” of their kookaide. I saw them for what they are as I purused their site. I’m sure there are many crossfitters who rely on T-Nation for quality training information. There is so little at crossfit that they have to go somewhere!
“Incestual rage?” Um…I think you are just a tad over the top.
If I can steer one person away from something that will either waste their time or burn them out I have done a good job! And leave my monkey alone, he hates being around zealots!
[quote]chubs108 wrote:
On a more non-argumentive note: ZEB, If you are capable of reading or grasping what’s useful, rather than Guru-izing CrossFit around it’s useless claims, you would be able to understand my position of it being “IDEAL for firefighters” and see how the WODs and advice that is given by experienced CrossFit members make it so.[/quote]
Now you admit that crossfit is not what it says it is. You are taking the long way around but you are making progress. I’m going to read on!
Well, your first post promoting crossfit as “ideal” did not differentiate did it? It was a blanket endorsement of crossfit for firefighters. Anything where you have to get into shape first before you use the program is destined to fail with most people. I hope you know this. Once again you end with a condemnation of crossfit, so I see you are definately coming around.
You did sort of imply that T-Nation turns out “calendar models.” The inference was that crossfit turned out “real athletes.” That is one reason I called BULLCRAP! Glad to read you are backing down from this claim.
Once again I’m gald you agree that the crossfit crap is hype. I’m also happy that you actually checked out the site further and found this out for yourself. So why even bother promoting such a site? Especially when you are on the finest site on the Internet for building your body - T-Nation!
I agree, however I think crossfit is disingenuous for other reasons which I have mentioned.
Well first of all it is obvious to all but the very dim that T-Nation really does have the best Bodybuilding routines of the day (and even more). As far as their supplements are concerned I feel that they are of the highest quality. I have been around this stuff (training etc.) for over 30 years. I can spot a phoney, and there are plenty out there from the real deal which happens to be T-Nation!
Great! Stick with T-Nation and avoid the “cons” and you will get even better results!
“Educated enough to use?” You mean you have to be educated to swallow the pill over at crossfit? I think it’s quite the reverse.
Are you actually trying to tell me that crossfit invented these things? Also, if you perform a movement in the wrong fashion, or to soon after another movement, or use the wrong set or rep scheme based upon your desired goals, is it all still good, or is it watered down?
If that is honestly the only difference that you see between the two sites then it seems that there is not much common ground between us!
Hold on…I have never been a member of their site. However, I do know several who have been members and they either simply stopped posting because of the “Pollyanna” type posts which they encountered, or they (two people whom I know) were stripped of their right to use the board because they simply offered up a different view from what the “BOARD” agreed with.
I read their posts personally and found none of it offensive. It was simply open discussion. However, the dictator whom they call “the coach” threw them out without so much as even a warning. And for what, they simply offered up a different viewpoint. That in my opinion smacks of cultism. Please don’t ever make a comparison between crossfit and T-Nation. Free speech is cherished and even encouraged here. Between that and the quality information (and supplements) which T-Nation provides there is no comparison!
Again, you assume I was a member, I never was. However, what “I do here” is attempt to offer good advice when I get the opportunity to do so. In addition to that I have also learned more on this site than I have over the past 10 years regarding exactly the best way to build my body.
In other words when you read their site and assume they are telling the truth you have to be careful. Well, I certainly agree. By the way you just touched on why the cf wod will not work for the typical fireman.
He also said “Beware of websites that feed you hype and won’t let in any other ideas.”
No wait…I don’t think he ever said that, I guess that’s my own warning about crossfit!