Few questions about 5-3-1

Bigger Stronger Leaner
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5:3:1
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19M, 6’2”, 200lbs. In Army ROTC planning on branching infantry. I have 2 main goals;

  1. Score 600 on the ACFT (Army physical fitness test (581 is my current score)
  2. Get stronger regarding my compound lifts (bench, incline, squat, and deadlift mainly)

I plan on starting 5-3-1 next week and have a few questions. (Haven’t got my maxes yet.)

  1. 5-3-1 is a four week program, so how long should I take off between programs?

  2. Are pushups a good asset workout for bench during 5-3-1?

  3. Are pull ups a good asset, and if so should I incorporate it with my deadlift days?

  4. Can I still run 4 days a week while doing 5-3-1?

I’m 19 so I have plenty of time to figure out what works for me. Just hoping 5-3-1 works.

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531 has four week cycles but is not a four week program. The fourth week is a deload week, if you decide to take it, so you don’t need to take time off between cycles.

You should buy the book as it will explain assistance exercises (including pushups and pullups), as well as when to deload, when to skip it, when to take two steps back, and it has a bunch of templates for you to follow.

You can run, but it might slow your gains.

531 works - if you follow the program.

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Echo what @The_Myth says

Solid, you can buy the first one or just get 5/3/1 Forever.

It could affect your recovery, there are full body templates which lend themselves for overall strength progression and to focus on conditioning.

4

You can always Google what the soldiers who have maxed the test did to prepare for it. The real question should be, is doing what it takes to max a test worth it? It seems you have two goals which might not be compatible. You might have to choose.

For your size and the fact you already lift, the test shouldn’t be that hard to max. It’s the run that you need to worry about the most, maybe. I don’t know the time you need to get but I’m assuming it’s around 13 minutes, so 6.5 minute per mile pace. Just get into decent running shape then when the test gets closer, push yourself when you run to peak for the test.

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Your best bet is to buy Wendlers book and understand the programming straight from the horses mouth.

5/3/1 runs in 4 week cycles and one of those is a deload week, which feeds in to the next cycle where you increase weight per the books recommendation.

The cheat code is you take 90% of each 1 rep max.

  • Week one is a 5x5 at 65%, 75%, 85% of your original 90%.

  • week two is 3x3 at 70%, 80%, 90% of your 90%

  • week three is 5/3/1 at 75%, 85%, 95% of your 90%.

All last sets are AMRAP or “as many reps as possible” and this is the where the growth happens on 5/3/1 so don’t neglect it.

  • week four is your deload. I forgot what the book says but I do a 5x5 at 60% and go easy on accessory work. If I’m going to skip a gym day or two it’s during this week.

Then you start over by adding 10 pounds to your max on squats and deads, 5 lbs to presses, calculate your 90% and off you go and so on.

There are a million templates for accessories and supplemental lifts around the core 5/3/1 program above. Body weight accessories would be good for you. I think it’s called 5/3/1 walrus. This may include weight vest though, also beneficial if body weight alone isn’t challenging enough.

Here’s a link to Wendler:

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what were your scores in each of the six events?

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Hell yeah.

I think the new one is tougher to max than the old one. It’s just more events, so you’re more likely to have a gap.

Ditto.

Maybe so, but I would personally flip this. Your goal is to be an Infantry Officer, not a powerlifter. So you must run and now it’s how does 5/3/1 help you. You’re still running and lifting, but you don’t have “permission” to sacrifice run times to focus more on your squat.

What do these days look like? Do you do any road marching? How do you take care of your lower body (chronic injury washes more of us out than anything else)?

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Yes - always comes down to “what are your goals” doesn’t it?

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Look into “Tactical Barbell” I think it is much better suited to your goals. Book 1 has a section on operational athletes.

"OPERATIONAL ATHLETES

The term ‘tactical’ or ‘operational’ athlete gets thrown around a lot in this book. I’ll define what that is for the purposes of this program. A unique breed, tactical athletes may be required to physically operate at a superior level in stressful situations and dangerous environments. Due to the requirements of their chosen profession, tactical athletes are rarely specialists. They require mastery over a variety of attributes including limit-strength, conditioning, and job related skillsets. Training time and energy has to be divided accordingly. It is counterproductive for the tactical athlete to specialize in any one skill to a high degree.

Operational Athletes include but are not limited to the following:

Military Personnel, particularly SOF or Infantry/Combat Arms soldiers
Tactical Law Enforcement; SWAT/HRT/ERT/ESU
Other Law Enforcement; Patrol, K9, Street Crime Units
Firefighters and paramedics
Combat athletes; martial artists, MMA, boxers
Private Security Contractors (PMC)
Civilians looking to develop a high level of skill in multiple fitness domains
MINDSET

If you’re coming to TB from another style of training, powerlifter-based for example, you’ll need to look at fitness from a different angle. You’ll need to adopt the mindset of a tactical, or operational athlete.

Operational athletes place an equal value on strength and conditioning.

One is not more important than the other. If you can bench 400lbs but can’t run for 6 miles without stopping, then your big bench is useless. If you can run a marathon in record time but can’t strap a hundred pounds to your back and ruck for several hours over mountainous terrain while hungry and fatigued, then it might be time to hit the squat rack.

Operational athletes strive to be superior in multiple fitness domains, not elite in one.

Your dreams of deadlifting 1000lbs have to die. Instead, your goal is to be the guy that can deadlift 500-600lbs and still complete a marathon.

Being superior in multiple fitness domains is elite.

Think about it.

It takes an organized, strategic, disciplined, and focused mind to achieve superior ratings in multiple physical qualities simultaneously. Not just ‘good’, but ‘superior’.

Your ‘personal records’ and ‘best times’ will fluctuate throughout the year.

This occurs because of less-than-ideal training situations, constantly changing environments, and while temporarily shifting focus to work on other physical attributes. Stop thinking in terms of ‘PR’ing every session, and think in terms of improving the attribute of strength over the long haul. PRs or maximums are used by the tactical athlete to gauge progress and operational-readiness. Not as a goal in and of itself. They’re used to calculate future blocks of training and to assess results of prior training. Don’t stress if your bench press 1 rep maximum drops by a few pounds while you’re running a base building block. As long as your strength is increasing over time in the big picture, fluctuations up or down in the present mean nothing. Chart your overall progress over months and years, not weeks.

An Operational Athlete trains for performance first.

If you’re trying to figure out whether to cut or bulk, or mulling over how to bring up your lagging calf muscles, you’re reading the wrong book. We’ve found over the years, that things like aesthetics, fat loss and all the rest take care of themselves if you focus on improving your performance. A body that can generate double or triple the amount of force it used to is going to go through some dramatic physical changes. In other words, as long as you have your nutrition and conditioning somewhat in check, you will be more than satisfied with your ‘look’."

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10

I was in the ROTC. The 2 mile run was my weakest event.

If I could give my 19 year old self some advice it would be;

Get some caffeine in and take 600mg of ibuprofen before the PT test.

Maybe Goodys Headache Powder mixed in an energy drink.

Or some coffee and 3 regular-ass ibuprofen tablets.

Or a couple Excedrin and some Mt.Dew.

It’s just way, way easier to run with some of that good shit in the system.

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I think the military ibuprofen, Ranger Candy, only comes in 800mg tablets.

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I didn’t discover those until later.

I wasn’t sure if youths would have access, so I went with over the counter stuff.

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I think it was initially the case but as it has been used for a little while now, people have figured out how to train for it. It’s a dumb test. If you want to know if someone is fit, the run is all you need. If you want to know if someone is strong enough, that will make itself known just through training. You can still be weak, looking at the standards, and pass. But if you’re weak, you won’t make it through infantry school.

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I don’t have a running schedule so I just go with what I am feeling that day, but most of the time it is either a 30-50 minute timed run or a long run anywhere from 4-6 miles. I don’t have my own ruck sack so I have not been ruck marching outside of of the school year. I stretch and take ice baths and have never had any lower body injuries (knock on wood). Running is not a weakness for me, I max the run out on the ACFT everytime (2 mile run time is 13:01 minutes, need 13:23 to max it), my weakness is the push up portion of the test which is which is why my goals kind of go hand in hand (if I get stronger, then I’ll be able to do more pushups).

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Deadlift - 100
Standing Ball throw - 97
Pushups - 84
Sprint Drag Carry - 100
Plank - 100
2 Mile Run - 100

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I haven’t train for ACFT, I have just look the requirements.

Seems like the Strength and Conditioning template from 5/3/1 Forever would be the perfect match.

  1. One of the main lifts is the deadlift so you would cover that test.
  2. You have jumps and throws at the beginning of each session so you could incorporate the standing power throw and practice it then.
  3. Maxing on push ups (and pull ups) is part of the program. Plus you do some bench and increasing your max strength will help your strength endurance.
  4. Some sled/prowler work is programmed. Could take care of sprint/drag/carry test.
  5. Running is programmed too.
  6. For the plank, just practice a little bit. This one should be easy.

As stated above, Tactical Barbell would be a good choice of program too. But if you are fixed on using 5/3/1, buy the Forever book and look for the Strength and Conditioning template. This template looks awesome and talking about it makes me want to do it!

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Don’t forget a bump of cocaine!

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Good deal! Sounds like you’re pretty sorted. If the running ever becomes a lot/ a concern or you want some thoughts around including rucking, tag me.

Don’t let no ruck be a reason not to, though; I’m sure you have a backpack. I would recommend training it for at least 6 months before you go to camp (they still do that, right?).

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I don’t disagree. I believe their goal was to get away from, essentially, “the lightest guy wins.” They ended up creating their own monster, though.

My issue with these tests has actually always been that you can max them. They’re just there as a baseline to see if you’ll drop dead serving. Then let your specific unit, MOS, command, etc. train you and hold their own standards. The problem with being able to max the test is, since it’s measurable and the army is the army, maxing it becomes its own goal… instead of performing in your specific job being the goal.

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I think you had some officers who were doing crossfit get the great idea that the test should be about that mythical term, functional strength. As if a female who works in clerical needs to show the same “functionality” as a Ranger.

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