Fedor vs Rogers Strikeforce Card

Training
101

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Amiright wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Speaking of “modern era” and “future” of MMA. Pay attention to what happens in this besides a right hand.

ok, I’m missing something… please explain

Well…if you watch,not only did Fedor connect with that punch…he also slipped Rogers’ hook. And at the same time,he using his body as if he’s attempting to do some kind of leg sweep/trip.

Because of the way Rogers’ body turns after the punch,that is somewhat negated,but Fedor still manages to shift his bodyweight into Rogers’ and knock him off-balance. Transitions…and all in the same sequence. Fedor is the best at it…GSP is a very close second,imo…and Machida has some nice transitions with his strikes and foot-sweeps. Mousasi is starting to show the same abilities.

Transitioning like that is going be a big component in the future of how fighters train for MMA. Anyone that can put all the disciplines together and flow effortlessly from one to another is going to murder those who cannot.

So, in other words, all of the non-Americans are currently the best at this, meaning something is not happening with our training that IS happening with the foreigners, UK excluded.

Well…I didn’t even think about it that way…but it seems that would be correct. I’m sure plenty of Americans are catching on and training that way. But I think we are behind in terms of training in a complete MMA system. We still focus more on training individual disciplines and applying it to MMA…whereas fighters like Fedor train more so in a MMA-geared system and supplement with the individual disciplines…not the other way around.

That’s how it looks on the outside to me anyways…I remember Xen making a good post about the future of MMA training that is relevant to all of this.

But then again…it could just be the individual’s ability to flow. Although if he is training that way,I highly suspect that there is some methodology to their camp’s training system in regards to transitions. Definitely an interesting topic. [/quote]

Thread-worthy?

Another example would be Koscheck. You mentioned that “He forgets he’s well rounded.” Well, why is that? Is something about his training so disjoint that he can’t put it all together like GSP?

Why is GSP so smooth in transition? Is that nature or nurture?

Fedor doesn’t seem like a super-athletic guy, does he? But his brain is wired right for MMA. Is that nature or nurture?

102

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Amiright wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Speaking of “modern era” and “future” of MMA. Pay attention to what happens in this besides a right hand.

ok, I’m missing something… please explain

Well…if you watch,not only did Fedor connect with that punch…he also slipped Rogers’ hook. And at the same time,he using his body as if he’s attempting to do some kind of leg sweep/trip.

Because of the way Rogers’ body turns after the punch,that is somewhat negated,but Fedor still manages to shift his bodyweight into Rogers’ and knock him off-balance. Transitions…and all in the same sequence. Fedor is the best at it…GSP is a very close second,imo…and Machida has some nice transitions with his strikes and foot-sweeps. Mousasi is starting to show the same abilities.

Transitioning like that is going be a big component in the future of how fighters train for MMA. Anyone that can put all the disciplines together and flow effortlessly from one to another is going to murder those who cannot.

So, in other words, all of the non-Americans are currently the best at this, meaning something is not happening with our training that IS happening with the foreigners, UK excluded.

Well…I didn’t even think about it that way…but it seems that would be correct. I’m sure plenty of Americans are catching on and training that way. But I think we are behind in terms of training in a complete MMA system. We still focus more on training individual disciplines and applying it to MMA…whereas fighters like Fedor train more so in a MMA-geared system and supplement with the individual disciplines…not the other way around.

That’s how it looks on the outside to me anyways…I remember Xen making a good post about the future of MMA training that is relevant to all of this.

But then again…it could just be the individual’s ability to flow. Although if he is training that way,I highly suspect that there is some methodology to their camp’s training system in regards to transitions. Definitely an interesting topic.

Thread-worthy?

Another example would be Koscheck. You mentioned that “He forgets he’s well rounded.” Well, why is that? Is something about his training so disjoint that he can’t put it all together like GSP?

Why is GSP so smooth in transition? Is that nature or nurture?

Fedor doesn’t seem like a super-athletic guy, does he? But his brain is wired right for MMA. Is that nature or nurture?
[/quote]

Hell,yeah definitely thread-worthy. Just not quite sure how to go about it…yet.

Also,your comments pretty much allude to the mental game aspect. A fighter definitely has to be mentally-wired to put it all together smoothly like GSP and Fedor.

It’s just not a muscle-memory type thing I’m talking about. It’s having that acute mental focus to notice ALL of the little things.

A good example being Fedor talking about how he was watching the small details of Rogers’ footwork and deciding to time his right hand. How many guys can still keep the mental focus to notice shit like that when things are not going as expected? Most just end up getting frustrated and lose their focus.

GSP also talks about the “small stuff” he notices in his opponents as well. The thing is they watch these things regardless if they are hurt,exhausted,or whatever.

103

[quote]oriensus wrote:
I hope he wins so he can continue with this mystique about him, so down the road, if we’re lucky enough, we get to see him actually fighting the best heavyweight in the world (whoever it may be). [/quote]

He’s gonna fight himself? Like in “Fight Club”?

104

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
That right sounded like a gunshot when it connected.

[/quote]

I thought it sounded like a 100 mph fastball hitting a catcher’s mitt.

I’m surprised Rogers’ jaw was in tact.

105

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
oriensus wrote:
I hope he wins so he can continue with this mystique about him, so down the road, if we’re lucky enough, we get to see him actually fighting the best heavyweight in the world (whoever it may be).

He’s gonna fight himself? Like in “Fight Club”?
[/quote]

Lol…Um, second best I meant.

One of the posters wrote Fedor already has a cut on his nose prior to the fight. In looking at the promo vids for the fight, when the camera is up close in his face you can actually clearly see he has wound on his nose. Ok, I’m not that nerdy and was looking for the wound, I just happen to see it.

106

I’m sure lot of you already seen this pic. But damn, it looks nice. Worth looking at it again. That’s Fedor fighting like he got nothing to loose. Hopefully the image goes through.

.

107

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Amiright wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Speaking of “modern era” and “future” of MMA. Pay attention to what happens in this besides a right hand.

ok, I’m missing something… please explain

Well…if you watch,not only did Fedor connect with that punch…he also slipped Rogers’ hook. And at the same time,he using his body as if he’s attempting to do some kind of leg sweep/trip.

Because of the way Rogers’ body turns after the punch,that is somewhat negated,but Fedor still manages to shift his bodyweight into Rogers’ and knock him off-balance. Transitions…and all in the same sequence. Fedor is the best at it…GSP is a very close second,imo…and Machida has some nice transitions with his strikes and foot-sweeps. Mousasi is starting to show the same abilities.

Transitioning like that is going be a big component in the future of how fighters train for MMA. Anyone that can put all the disciplines together and flow effortlessly from one to another is going to murder those who cannot.

So, in other words, all of the non-Americans are currently the best at this, meaning something is not happening with our training that IS happening with the foreigners, UK excluded.

Well…I didn’t even think about it that way…but it seems that would be correct. I’m sure plenty of Americans are catching on and training that way. But I think we are behind in terms of training in a complete MMA system. We still focus more on training individual disciplines and applying it to MMA…whereas fighters like Fedor train more so in a MMA-geared system and supplement with the individual disciplines…not the other way around.

That’s how it looks on the outside to me anyways…I remember Xen making a good post about the future of MMA training that is relevant to all of this.

But then again…it could just be the individual’s ability to flow. Although if he is training that way,I highly suspect that there is some methodology to their camp’s training system in regards to transitions. Definitely an interesting topic. [/quote]

Maybe I can help…???

I got to train a few times in the Czech republic when it was still In the “eastern Bloc”
and then later on in life to play judo there again.

Maybe someone like JellyRoll can pipe in here too I know he has a heavy background in Sambo.

Its not exactly all foreigners… more so the eastern Europeans.
and whats up with that word anyway??? dude.?

I can only speak on Judo+wrestling cause that’s what I know.

Basically we learn here in a step by step basis.
the emphasis is placed on pefecting one technique at a time
and stringing them together.

here we are taught to do stuff one thing at a time and to be looking for opportunities

over there they seem better at making those opportunities.

when competing I often felt outclassed, kind of led or bated into what they needed me to do.
and for the first time I felt blocky or like a beginner.

when we trained together for the next few days- I learned that they watched my hips, and chest
not my face or arms to see what I was doing.
Often they watched my feet, but really it was watching body language and where movement initiates
they also play more chess during the match then I could muster
like big boss mentioning fedor watching footwork.

basically they are working positions vs moves.
they are never intent on one aspect of what they are doing but gauging how to get me/us to do what they need.

You can see this very readily in almost any international Judo match, the attention to grips or handfighting is incredible.
Same with pummeling with greco they are more sophisticated,
not only can they throw, trip etc, the way they utilize the tie ups prevents you from stalling.
while they might be able to score or stall them selves.

They also dont make such a big deal about some stuff
they know with some players they will get scored on, taken down etc,
they know how to work with that.

really its not about secret training there facilites are the Barest places you would ever see.
its about where the emphasis is placed.

particularly with MMA people try to reinvent the wheel
crazy intense traiing , insane physical prep…
when in reality its about implementation.

108

I guess, I mean Fedors the only big name from there, most of their other combat athletes suck. Kiril was supposed to be big until he got TKO’d by jabs.

109

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Valor wrote:
Amiright wrote:
Valor wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Amiright wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
The sound that accuracy and more importantly,timing,makes:

I have to give props to rogers chin after seeing that a few times… anyone else would have been out stiff. It appears that he flashed but obviously never went out cold.

Yes,definitely a flash KO. His eyes were just coming back to focus when Fedor starting his GnP…but he was definitely still dazed enough to not defend himself other than covering up.

Covering up IS defending yourself. You’re just fucking confused.

Covering up and being in the fetal position facing away from your opponent is defending yourself for sure… but its not defending yourself intelligently

I agree.

You sit there and agree with that…yet you exclaim that I’m “fucking confused” when I say:

he was definitely still dazed enough to not defend himself other than covering up…

I figured you for an intelligent poster…I’m deeply disappointed. Sad that I have to associate your shortcomings with that 1st Infantry patch in your avatar.

Oh well. We will agree in the future…but for now you’re a dumb fuck. [/quote]

I’ve ALWAYS been a dumb fuck.
Ask your mom!
:slight_smile:

110

Not a very good card or production.

Announcers were not very good. I think this may just be them trying to make the fights more exciting then they are. Hopefully they will settle down a bit. First show on CBS so understandable.

General production was ok but the commercials and timing were really annoying. How many commercials did they run between the last two fights? Again, I would expect this to improve.

Wedum Silva - I was really hoping for more from Silva. He looked really slow and tenative. Not a good performance by him. Overall not a very good fight becuase of this.

Gegard looked good and there was some back and forth. This fight was a dissappointment only because Sokoudjou seemed to just give up at the end. I have no interest in watching fight any more. They should be able to get Gegard a better fight next time.

Miller Shields was a interesting grappling match but not much else. Shields had dominant possition countless times and was unable to inflict any damage or threaten for a finish.

I liked Fedor/Rogers. I thought it went about as I expected. I didn’t give Rogers much of chance but wasn’t expecting Fedor to stop him seconds into the first round without being hit like many may have been.

Pretty exciting to have MMA on CBS. Hopefully next time the announcers will be a little less anxious, the production/commercial timing will be better, and we will get a little bit better match-ups.

111

Maro is ok, it’s really Gus Johnson who sucks. I’m pretty sure he’s the guy that yelled “the biggest upset in mma histroy” or something to that effect when Kimbo lost. They should just bring Bas in to replace him. Some if the things he says leave me scratching my head. He makes Goldie seem really smart.

112

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Not a very good card or production.

Announcers were not very good. [/quote]

True, but neither is the Goldberg/Rogan team.

The best MMA announcer is, IMO, Frank Mir. I learn a lot by listening to him.

When I listen to Joe Rogan, I just want him to gargle some buckshot.

113

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Not a very good card or production.

Announcers were not very good.

True, but neither is the Goldberg/Rogan team.

The best MMA announcer is, IMO, Frank Mir. I learn a lot by listening to him.

When I listen to Joe Rogan, I just want him to gargle some buckshot. [/quote]

nobody’s perfect. I think Goldberg is pretty good for a color cometator, but I don’t generally put much value in color commentators. Goldberge has been horning in on the play-by-play a bit, which can make him look silly at times but he does seen to be learning tha game. The guy that does K1 fights may be only color guy I really care for. Jay Glazier is pretty good as well.

As for play by play, I do like Mir. Some times he tries to assume the roll of color commentator and run off at the mouth a bit, but he is better than Rogan. I used to like Rogan quite a bit but he seems to have gotten a bit too comfortable or lazy if that makes any sense.

The CBS team was terrible. Frank may have been the worst. The guy couldn’t even say Sokoudjou. Claiming he couldn’t score any of the rounds when asked was pretty bush league as well.

There are quality guys out there. No excuse for CBS to keep the same team. Glazier and Rutten would be better then the three they have. I would assume Mir is out of the question. Maybe they can get Jeff Blatnick to come back?

114

I think that Rogan, WHEN he keeps his biases to himself, is a great commentator. He knows his stuff, he can explain the details of what’s going on, he doesn’t sound canned (like Mike Goldberg), etc. BUT, sometimes his bias for a certain fighter will show through to SUCH a degree that it’s just horrible, and completely ruins the viewing experience.

115

How does anyone think the fight would differ if fought in a ring instead of a cage?

116

just turn off the sound and enjoy the fight, and i have the advanage, i take off my hearing aid:)

117

Mir is guilty if this, when Torres lost there was just a long silence.

118

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
How does anyone think the fight would differ if fought in a ring instead of a cage?[/quote]

I think Fedor would have gotten the arm bar.

119

[quote]drewh wrote:
Mir is guilty if this, when Torres lost there was just a long silence.[/quote]

I don’t think Torres should have won the Mizugaki decision, to be honest.

They all have biases. Rogan’s biases are much less credible, IMO, given that he’s not an actual MMA fighter. Rogan is basically Eddie Bravo’s annoying butt-buddy with a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth.

He needs to be fired.

I actually liked listening to Randy Couture b/c he mostly STFU and made intelligent comments when he did talk.

120

I hate to say it: But I like Rogan.

The guy’s an ass, but he has balls…and is usually intresting.