I was screaming at my TV when Miller had that rear naked sunk in…damn I wanted him to win. That said…he was outclassed. it wouldn’t hurt miller to at least know where the weight room IS.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
drewh wrote:
Mir is guilty if this, when Torres lost there was just a long silence.
I don’t think Torres should have won the Mizugaki decision, to be honest.
They all have biases. Rogan’s biases are much less credible, IMO, given that he’s not an actual MMA fighter. Rogan is basically Eddie Bravo’s annoying butt-buddy with a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth.
He needs to be fired.
I actually liked listening to Randy Couture b/c he mostly STFU and made intelligent comments when he did talk. [/quote]
What fight were you watching Miguel dominated for sure.
[quote]Valor wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Amiright wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Speaking of “modern era” and “future” of MMA. Pay attention to what happens in this besides a right hand.
ok, I’m missing something… please explain
Well…if you watch,not only did Fedor connect with that punch…he also slipped Rogers’ hook. And at the same time,he using his body as if he’s attempting to do some kind of leg sweep/trip.
Because of the way Rogers’ body turns after the punch,that is somewhat negated,but Fedor still manages to shift his bodyweight into Rogers’ and knock him off-balance. Transitions…and all in the same sequence. Fedor is the best at it…GSP is a very close second,imo…and Machida has some nice transitions with his strikes and foot-sweeps. Mousasi is starting to show the same abilities.
Transitioning like that is going be a big component in the future of how fighters train for MMA. Anyone that can put all the disciplines together and flow effortlessly from one to another is going to murder those who cannot.
That sweep/leg trip you’re seeing is Fedor off balance after the punch.[/quote]
Agreed
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
Strikeforce delivered a good card last night. All the fights were entertaining. Shields-Mayhem dragged a little in the championship rounds as Shields just layed-and-prayed his way to a win, but other than that, the action was good.
I’m not so sure it was “lay and pray” as you suggest. Shields tried a multitude of times to finish the fight from the ground. He mounted Mayhem a number of times (12 or so). He also took Mayhem’s back several times. That’s not laying and praying that’s an aggressive ground game. But, I give much credit to Mayhem for being able to move out of trouble once he was in it.
Rogers made a good showing for himself.
Well he did get in some serious shots, but he ended up paying the price for trading punches. Good showing? I guess it depends on how you look at it. When most get ko’d in the second round they don’t call it a good showing, but there was that flurry of punches that one time. I would refer to Rogers performance as “game”. He was a game opponent who came to fight and that’s good to see.
Only 5 fighters have gone the distance with Fedor most end up like Rogers either knocked out or submitted.
I’m not concerned with how he acted post-fight in the interview. I’m not a big fan of sticking a mic in someone’s face seconds after they lost. I’m sure if he would’ve had more time to cool off, he probably would have been more logical in his comments. Plus, his brains were probably still a little scrambled from that Fedor right hand.
Perhaps, but it seems that every other fighter who gets that mic stuck in their face seems to sound pretty good, most that is. Rogers lack of class rivals Lesnar’s after the Mir fight no question. Comments like he had did not help him or the sport that’s the only reason that I care.
I really don’t want mma to turn into a circus with a room full of classless louts spouting off inconsistent comments sounding like spoiled children. Rogers was all of that and more in my opinion. Also, when you step into the cage with Fedor there is at least a possibility that you’re going to lose, what’s wrong with showing some respect and dignity?
Nice to see a main event deliver the goods. CBS and Strikeforce should both be very happy with how last night went.
I agree, other than a few very strange camera angles I thought the rest of the show was great. Reasonably good commentary, very good fights and the general promotion was outstanding. I’m sure Dana White was quite uncomfortable with the whole thing which is just one more reason to appreciate what CBS and Strikeforce put together.
I was more referring to the last 2 rounds in the Shields fight where he stopped trying for subs and was content - and rightly so - to hold his position, land a few punches and go for half-hearted chokes. I think he knew there was no way he was subbing Mayhem unless Mayhem just quit mentally.
I think Shields’ style is fine but some casual MMA fans might not find it the most entertaining.
As for Rogers, the fact that he made it to the 2nd round and landed several good shots on Fedor makes for a good showing in my book. I thought the dude was way overmatched and he actually held his own. Did a lot better than former UFC champ, Tim Sylvia 
mayhem is ridiculously hard to submit. ive seen him go thru an entire room of guys (10-12) just rotating thru one after the other for almost two hours without getting subbed. good guys too, insane flexibility and competitiveness. i honestly dont know if he’d tap even if you caught him in practice.[/quote]
Agree with you about Mayhem being hard to sub but I don’t like his BJJ. BJJ is not about just being hard to submit, it is about improving your position and using positional dominance to force the other guy into a bad position where he has to submit.
This fight looked a lot like the GSP fight a few years back, Mayhem was happy to be put in bad positions because he was confident in his escapes but that meant he lost the fight on points.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Valor wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Valor wrote:
ROFL…
Ya, Fedor was tring the REAR LEG RUSSIAN LEG SWEEP. Its a common follow up to the off balance right.
Look…I already stated that you disagree…and that is fine. I don’t care as much about it as you do…which is evident by you continuing to take issue with it. I guess this is normal for your level of maturity.
Now with that out of the way.
Change your tampon and just accept what 98% have come to terms with: Rogers was not intelligently defending himself. You and those that believe otherwise are the exception…and can go circle-jerk about it together.
You fail to recognize that covering up…WITHOUT attempting to improve your position is not defending yourself. This is basic knowledge for MMA fans with a lick of common sense. What is your excuse?
Of course you would think just covering up and giving your ass to someone is a defense. Did you get therapy for that?
The only confusion on my part is if you’re a man or a boy. Which one is it? Because you definitely do not make it obvious…sorry.
You dont care…but responsed with a book to my TWO sentances… OKAY.
I’m not even sure why you got your panties in a bunch after my first post. You’re calling me a boy, but you’re not man enough to admit you’re wrong? Ya, Fedor was using his feared reverse rear leg russian hip check…he learned it from a NINJA! NINJA!!! Monkey.
Check your meds dude. Check your meds.
Yep…you are a laughable boy. You even type like one.
I’m glad others are not as retarded as you and see the main gist of my post concerning transitions. You’re arguing how YOU feel that I am wrong about something so small in comparison to the bigger picture. A sign that you clearly don’t know what’s going on to even prove me wrong.
If Fedor trains this way,it’s not far-fetched or “wrong” to see it in his fighting style…EVEN when he DOES NOT get the intended result. So shut up and let the men discuss this.
[/quote]
I agree with you that Fedor transitions from range to range very well but in this case he threw a huge right hand because he saw Rogers open, that left him off balance, which wasn’t a problem because he had pretty much taken Rogers head off.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Amiright wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Speaking of “modern era” and “future” of MMA. Pay attention to what happens in this besides a right hand.
ok, I’m missing something… please explain
Well…if you watch,not only did Fedor connect with that punch…he also slipped Rogers’ hook. And at the same time,he using his body as if he’s attempting to do some kind of leg sweep/trip.
Because of the way Rogers’ body turns after the punch,that is somewhat negated,but Fedor still manages to shift his bodyweight into Rogers’ and knock him off-balance. Transitions…and all in the same sequence. Fedor is the best at it…GSP is a very close second,imo…and Machida has some nice transitions with his strikes and foot-sweeps. Mousasi is starting to show the same abilities.
Transitioning like that is going be a big component in the future of how fighters train for MMA. Anyone that can put all the disciplines together and flow effortlessly from one to another is going to murder those who cannot.
So, in other words, all of the non-Americans are currently the best at this, meaning something is not happening with our training that IS happening with the foreigners, UK excluded.
Well…I didn’t even think about it that way…but it seems that would be correct. I’m sure plenty of Americans are catching on and training that way. But I think we are behind in terms of training in a complete MMA system.
We still focus more on training individual disciplines and applying it to MMA…whereas fighters like Fedor train more so in a MMA-geared system and supplement with the individual disciplines…not the other way around.
That’s how it looks on the outside to me anyways…I remember Xen making a good post about the future of MMA training that is relevant to all of this.
But then again…it could just be the individual’s ability to flow. Although if he is training that way,I highly suspect that there is some methodology to their camp’s training system in regards to transitions. Definitely an interesting topic.
Thread-worthy?
Another example would be Koscheck. You mentioned that “He forgets he’s well rounded.” Well, why is that? Is something about his training so disjoint that he can’t put it all together like GSP?
Why is GSP so smooth in transition? Is that nature or nurture?
Fedor doesn’t seem like a super-athletic guy, does he? But his brain is wired right for MMA. Is that nature or nurture?
[/quote]
Fedor has trained and competed in Combat Sambo for donkey’s years, this is a sport that combines striking, takedowns and grappling. Most of the top MMA guys either come from a striking background or a grappling background. They therefore need to mentally switch from one to the other.
I find myself doing this. I will be training MMA on the ground and forget to punch the guy when he is open, this is because I am in BJJ mode. Or I will be striking someone in the clinch and forget to go for a takedown, because I am in Muay Thai mode.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Not a very good card or production.
Announcers were not very good.
True, but neither is the Goldberg/Rogan team.
The best MMA announcer is, IMO, Frank Mir. I learn a lot by listening to him.
When I listen to Joe Rogan, I just want him to gargle some buckshot. [/quote]
Mir and Florian are about the best I have heard.
Just think yourselves lucky you don’t have the UFC commentary team we have for the UFC here in Mexico. The play by play guy really, really winds me up. Sounds like he is commentating on a horse race.
[quote]drewh wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
drewh wrote:
Mir is guilty if this, when Torres lost there was just a long silence.
I don’t think Torres should have won the Mizugaki decision, to be honest.
They all have biases. Rogan’s biases are much less credible, IMO, given that he’s not an actual MMA fighter. Rogan is basically Eddie Bravo’s annoying butt-buddy with a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth.
He needs to be fired.
I actually liked listening to Randy Couture b/c he mostly STFU and made intelligent comments when he did talk.
What fight were you watching Miguel dominated for sure.[/quote]
I dunno. I agree Miguel kept coming forward, but he was also getting the worst of the exchanges. He got put on his ass a few times and his face definitely looked worse than the other guy’s after the fight. Frank Mir was wondering why Miguel didn’t just take him down and submit him.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
slimjim wrote:
mayhem is ridiculously hard to submit. ive seen him go thru an entire room of guys (10-12) just rotating thru one after the other for almost two hours without getting subbed. good guys too, insane flexibility and competitiveness. i honestly dont know if he’d tap even if you caught him in practice.
Agree with you about Mayhem being hard to sub but I don’t like his BJJ. BJJ is not about just being hard to submit, it is about improving your position and using positional dominance to force the other guy into a bad position where he has to submit.
This fight looked a lot like the GSP fight a few years back, Mayhem was happy to be put in bad positions because he was confident in his escapes but that meant he lost the fight on points.[/quote]
he isn’t just hard to submit, he put himself in bad positions because he was looking for subs…i agree with positional dominance, but miller has never really been a position guy, he’ll risk giving up a good position to try and finish which leaves him open to getting mounted and his back taken. could use a little time in the weight room tho for sure
[quote]Valor wrote:
I hate to say it: But I like Rogan.
The guy’s an ass, but he has balls…and is usually intresting.[/quote]
How can anyone not like Rogan he said rape choke in a fat and the last fight said is that Ozzy refering to demi moore. I couldn’t stop laughing.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
Maybe I can help…???
I got to train a few times in the Czech republic when it was still In the “eastern Bloc”
and then later on in life to play judo there again.
Maybe someone like JellyRoll can pipe in here too I know he has a heavy background in Sambo.
Its not exactly all foreigners… more so the eastern Europeans.
and whats up with that word anyway??? dude.?
I can only speak on Judo+wrestling cause that’s what I know.
Basically we learn here in a step by step basis.
the emphasis is placed on pefecting one technique at a time
and stringing them together.
here we are taught to do stuff one thing at a time and to be looking for opportunities
over there they seem better at making those opportunities.
when competing I often felt outclassed, kind of led or bated into what they needed me to do.
and for the first time I felt blocky or like a beginner.
when we trained together for the next few days- I learned that they watched my hips, and chest
not my face or arms to see what I was doing.
Often they watched my feet, but really it was watching body language and where movement initiates
they also play more chess during the match then I could muster
like big boss mentioning fedor watching footwork.
basically they are working positions vs moves.
they are never intent on one aspect of what they are doing but gauging how to get me/us to do what they need.
You can see this very readily in almost any international Judo match, the attention to grips or handfighting is incredible.
Same with pummeling with greco they are more sophisticated,
not only can they throw, trip etc, the way they utilize the tie ups prevents you from stalling.
while they might be able to score or stall them selves.
They also dont make such a big deal about some stuff
they know with some players they will get scored on, taken down etc,
they know how to work with that.
really its not about secret training there facilites are the Barest places you would ever see.
its about where the emphasis is placed.
particularly with MMA people try to reinvent the wheel
crazy intense traiing , insane physical prep…
when in reality its about implementation.
[/quote]
I think your description of playing chess is the best analogy for this. And Fedor’s kind-of like the Mikhail Tal of MMA lol
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
slimjim wrote:
mayhem is ridiculously hard to submit. ive seen him go thru an entire room of guys (10-12) just rotating thru one after the other for almost two hours without getting subbed. good guys too, insane flexibility and competitiveness. i honestly dont know if he’d tap even if you caught him in practice.
Agree with you about Mayhem being hard to sub but I don’t like his BJJ. BJJ is not about just being hard to submit, it is about improving your position and using positional dominance to force the other guy into a bad position where he has to submit.
This fight looked a lot like the GSP fight a few years back, Mayhem was happy to be put in bad positions because he was confident in his escapes but that meant he lost the fight on points.
he isn’t just hard to submit, he put himself in bad positions because he was looking for subs…i agree with positional dominance, but miller has never really been a position guy, he’ll risk giving up a good position to try and finish which leaves him open to getting mounted and his back taken. could use a little time in the weight room tho for sure[/quote]
Miller has all the tools…he just doesn’t seem to have the gameplan aspect down… He seems to lean on his ability to escape and therefore doesn’t play smart…if that makes sense. And I agree… it wouldn’t hurt him to at least know where the weight room is…
I love watching him fight…but I’d love more if he made himself into a top threat instead of just a fun to watch fighter.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
slimjim wrote:
mayhem is ridiculously hard to submit. ive seen him go thru an entire room of guys (10-12) just rotating thru one after the other for almost two hours without getting subbed. good guys too, insane flexibility and competitiveness. i honestly dont know if he’d tap even if you caught him in practice.
Agree with you about Mayhem being hard to sub but I don’t like his BJJ. BJJ is not about just being hard to submit, it is about improving your position and using positional dominance to force the other guy into a bad position where he has to submit.
This fight looked a lot like the GSP fight a few years back, Mayhem was happy to be put in bad positions because he was confident in his escapes but that meant he lost the fight on points.
he isn’t just hard to submit, he put himself in bad positions because he was looking for subs…i agree with positional dominance, but miller has never really been a position guy, he’ll risk giving up a good position to try and finish which leaves him open to getting mounted and his back taken. could use a little time in the weight room tho for sure[/quote]
And that is exactly what I don’t like.