Fasted vs. Non-Fasted Cardio

What do you all think about the fasted vs. non-fasted cardio debate? I’m interested in the opinions of any of the coaches and contributors who see this and other T-Nation members.

All the time, I hear people say low-intensity steady state (LISS)cardio in the morning is preferable for fat loss and muscle maintenence. I seriously question this both on the basis on my own and others’ experience and the science of it. I don’t see why it matters so much that lower intensity cardio burns a utilizes a greater percentage of fat than carbs.

Higher intensity cardio, particularly intervals, revs up the metabolism and creates an afterburn similar to (though not as great as) weight-lifting. It also creates a greater caloric deficit, so at the end of the day more fat should ultimately be burned. I don’t think that it would result in more muscle loss than fasted cardio either provided that it is not excessive and someone is eating right and properly fueled.

What are all your thoughts, opinions, and experiences?

[i]Today’s nutrition tip comes from Dr. Lonnie Lowery:

Cardio Vs. Breakfast

Should morning cardio be performed on an empty stomach or not? Here’s what I like to do: Add a half-scoop of protein to a cup of java an hour before morning cardio. This will help you attack stored fat directly, before the lingering protective effects of insulin get involved. The small amount of protein may actually help combat cortisol and preserve muscle mass without jacking your insulin too high.[/i]

I agree with LL. Some protein beforehand is always a good idea.

I agree with LL also. He has talked about this for a bit now. I tried both last year fasted and the seimi fasted and found BOTH very effective at fat loss and the semi fasted very good at keeping LBM also.

Just my take

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
[i]Today’s nutrition tip comes from Dr. Lonnie Lowery:

Cardio Vs. Breakfast

Should morning cardio be performed on an empty stomach or not? Here’s what I like to do: Add a half-scoop of protein to a cup of java an hour before morning cardio. This will help you attack stored fat directly, before the lingering protective effects of insulin get involved. The small amount of protein may actually help combat cortisol and preserve muscle mass without jacking your insulin too high.[/i]

I agree with LL. Some protein beforehand is always a good idea.

[/quote]

I agree too. If you do choose to do morning cardio without much food in your stomach in the effort to tap into fat stores and minimize insulin’s effect, I think you should at least have a little bit of protein like he said. But I’m still wondering if this type of (lower?) intensity cardio is really more conducive to fat loss and less likely to be muscle-wasting than something like a higher intensity interval workout that is well-fueled. I imagine that the morning cardio would still be fairly low intensity. I personally couldn’t have a good workout just on half a scoop of protein.

I’m thinking an hour is a bit long between the coffee and miniscule protein snack. If you only did 30 minutes of cardio, you’d be looking at a minimum of about 90 minutes until a substantial meal.

Top-MI-Sirloin

I usually have about 40 g of protien and my ECA stack. This is before 630 AM spring football practice (no pads, just running). Seems to be working for me so far.

I treat cardio day just like a lifting day. I am not after the fastest fat loss, a slow steady cut preserving every ounce of lbm possible. I just focus on the net calorie deficit.

[quote]TheTank123 wrote:
I usually have about 40 g of protien and my ECA stack. This is before 630 AM spring football practice (no pads, just running). Seems to be working for me so far.[/quote]

Ditto, this kept me alive during early practices.

[quote]purdiver wrote:
I treat cardio day just like a lifting day. I am not after the fastest fat loss, a slow steady cut preserving every ounce of lbm possible. I just focus on the net calorie deficit.[/quote]

This is what I did on the one cut I’ve done. Except for PWO shake, I would treat cardio day like a lifting day too. I would either do moderate intensity cardio or an interval workout maybe an hour after a normal, healthy whole foods meal. I didn’t lose any muscle.

I tried 10oz cup of coffee with 1/2 scoop of chocolate Low-Carb Grow! and a splash of milk. I had a good run…about 4 miles in 36min.

[quote]LarryJr wrote:
I tried 10oz cup of coffee with 1/2 scoop of chocolate Low-Carb Grow! and a splash of milk. I had a good run…about 4 miles in 36min.[/quote]

That’s not a bad workout. Certainly burns calories. I’m sure that I would be able to do this with the 1/2 scoop oc Low-Carb Grow! But I could never do an interval workout without more fuel.

Any other thoughts on fasted or near-fasted cardio (along the lines of Lowery’s method) versus non-fasted cardio which would allow you to go harder or longer or both? I’d like to get the coaches input on this, but I’ll wait till Prime Time.

JS,

I think that losing fat is generally not seen as a time or method of promoting the most intense workouts. It really has to do with your goals and what you are trying to achieve.

If you are looking at burning the most total calories for a workout, you’ll want an intense workout.

If you are looking at burning fat while your body is simultaneously in a mood to liberate fat from cells, you’ll probably have to sacrifice availability of recently ingested carbohydrate energy.

[quote]vroom wrote:
JS,

I think that losing fat is generally not seen as a time or method of promoting the most intense workouts. It really has to do with your goals and what you are trying to achieve.

If you are looking at burning the most total calories for a workout, you’ll want an intense workout.

If you are looking at burning fat while your body is simultaneously in a mood to liberate fat from cells, you’ll probably have to sacrifice availability of recently ingested carbohydrate energy.[/quote]

Thanks for the input vroom. I’m basically just wondering why fasted or near-fasted (and typically lower intensity) cardio is so often lauded. Because I think that higher intensity non-fasted cardio can be equally good for fat loss and no more likely to lead to muscle wasting. To say nothing of the cardiovascualar benefits.

Personally, I feel that low-intensity cardio is far more popular because it’s easier. Not to mention that everyone else does it - the blind following the blind, if you will.

With that being said, I do think it works, and pretty well, as does high-intensity interval training.

HIIT is more “concentrated” in nature, but I feel it can really tax the CNS, and, if overdone, promote overtraining.

Since they both have their pros and cons, what do we do? A combination of the two methods - it works well for me.

Clay Hyght, DC, CSCS

I agree with Dr Clay. I think the reason low intensity fasted to semifasted cardio is popular amoung some is b/c these people are already on the verge of overtraining already and LISS is far far less taxing to all the body’s systems.

Plus if you’re dieting you have even less recovery ability and need to save all your intensity for the iron. I think high intensity stuff is great for general fitness and guys that want to be more athletic instead of just big and strong. I’m a lazy guy, and don’t really care about anything but lifting, so I’ll generally do low intensity stuff, though not first thing in the morning. I don’t think I could manage doing that much unless I had a treadmill at home.

I don’t think that it matters much, to tell you the truth. Over the course of a year, if you did it one way or the other you’d still end up in the same place no matter which method you chose. Thus, it’s really a non-issue. Whichever time/state allows you to feel good and motivated about doing it is best for you.

That said, I do think that putting your cardio on a non-weight training day is best. Doing something on your off days keeps the metabolism stoked and contributes to maintaining fatloss. Do that for a year as opposed to the same amount of cardio on your weight days and there will be a difference.

just my thoughts:
fat can only be burnt in oxygen,by taking a coffee shot it exposes the fat cells to be burnt. thus if u exercise at a reduced rate for say an hr ur burning predominantly burning fat.? i was also led to believe that any form HIT broke down protein stores in muscle to fuel such workouts. i agree with doc earlier about protein and it was said earlier,it comes down to what u want.