This thread is about the high pull hence my question
[quote]bubba_jack818 wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]bubba_jack818 wrote:
Hi CT,I train shoulders and traps once a week and was thinking of adding snatch grip high pulls from hang as I dont have blocks,to add size to traps and shoulders what set-reps you think I should try and would dumbell shrugs same workout be ok? Thanks[/quote]
Dumbbells shrugs are nowhere near similar to high pulls…
[/quote]
I didnt mean instead of high pull but in same workout. Like my shoulder workout would be -standing millitry press,side latterals,rear latterals then high pulls.dumbell shrugs-also with the high pull was wondering what set-reps should I do.thanks[/quote]
I personally would put the high pulls, shrugs and rear delts on back day but that’ just me. To me the rear delts have much more in common with the “back” than the shoulders. They are synrgists to more “back” movement than shoulder movements. And I’ve always seen the traps as part of the back.
Hey ct if you were to choose one of these pulls, which one would it be?(and what grip). And which one do you think is less technical?
Just started doing high pulls this week… wow. Man my traps were trashed after the first day. It’s been years since my traps hurt. Today I hit them again. I swear they have already responded some…
[quote]sok454 wrote:
Just started doing high pulls this week… wow. Man my traps were trashed after the first day. It’s been years since my traps hurt. Today I hit them again. I swear they have already responded some… [/quote]
I’m not surprised… high pulls are the first exercise from which one can see significant changes after the first session.
I actually avoid doing much trap work because they respond so quickly and I start to look odd… but my wife loves them…so guess I’ll start working them… Thanks for turning me on to the exercise!
[quote]sok454 wrote:
I actually avoid doing much trap work because they respond so quickly and I start to look odd… but my wife loves them…so guess I’ll start working them… Thanks for turning me on to the exercise![/quote]
I know the feeling. My traps grow at nothing and I have a narrow clavicle. So for years I tended to avoid traps work so that I wouldn’t look narrow. But I find that training them hard only motivate me to bring up my delts. Make your weakness keep up with your strength, don’t hold your strength back!
Cool thanks CT ill try that way it makes more sence,any rep-set you think I should try?
[quote]bubba_jack818 wrote:
Cool thanks CT ill try that way it makes more sence,any rep-set you think I should try?[/quote]
Can’t go wrong with 5 x 5
I had to stop doing cleans a few months ago due to my wrists, can’t be helped wrists and hands are ruff from different breaks, and years of boxing. I did however continue with my high pulls, I’d been doing high pulls before deads on Mon, and cleans before squats on Thurs, on and off for past year or so. Anyway I was depressed at having to drop cleans as I was finally able to do my BW.
The point is I tried doing a snatch out of the blue last month, I’ve been lifting for 25yrs, ( PLing mainly) and the couple times over the years I’ve tried to snatch were a disaster. This is why when I tried last month I so blown away at how natural, and fast the movement felt. I guess becoming proficient at the high pulls the last couple years has transferred directly to the snatch. The best part is I have absolutely no wrist pain from doing the snatch, after only 3 weeks I’m already within 10lbs of my BW. I’m having a blast with these, and my traps and upper back are loving them.
I just wanted to post this up in case there are any other older/broken lifter’s avoiding some of these pulls because of an injury. This is oly lifting is all new to me, but my experience has been great, with the snatches actually making my shoulder’s feel stronger, and healthier, yada yada yada, but it’s easy to fall into rut, and forget that Pling, oly lifting, BBing are all weightlifting.
wow, got way off topic there, but anyway thanks again CT !
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
I had to stop doing cleans a few months ago due to my wrists, can’t be helped wrists and hands are ruff from different breaks, and years of boxing. I did however continue with my high pulls, I’d been doing high pulls before deads on Mon, and cleans before squats on Thurs, on and off for past year or so. Anyway I was depressed at having to drop cleans as I was finally able to do my BW.
The point is I tried doing a snatch out of the blue last month, I’ve been lifting for 25yrs, ( PLing mainly) and the couple times over the years I’ve tried to snatch were a disaster. This is why when I tried last month I so blown away at how natural, and fast the movement felt. I guess becoming proficient at the high pulls the last couple years has transferred directly to the snatch. The best part is I have absolutely no wrist pain from doing the snatch, after only 3 weeks I’m already within 10lbs of my BW. I’m having a blast with these, and my traps and upper back are loving them.
I just wanted to post this up in case there are any other older/broken lifter’s avoiding some of these pulls because of an injury. This is oly lifting is all new to me, but my experience has been great, with the snatches actually making my shoulder’s feel stronger, and healthier, yada yada yada, but it’s easy to fall into rut, and forget that Pling, oly lifting, BBing are all weightlifting.
wow, got way off topic there, but anyway thanks again CT !
[/quote]
Funny… when I read the first paragraph I thought to myself “why doesn’t he try snatching?” 
The fact that the snatch felt fast and natural tells me that you’ve been the high pulls the right way, so good job on that! You will see that when you can do it properly the snatch is more fun, more rewarding and more effective than the clean.
Muscle snatch, got it read today’s article, and yup that’s what I’m doing, but you probably knew that. I don’t know if it was directed at me, but really appreciated today’s article, now I know what to call what I’ve been doing, and somehow without any direction I’m bang on with your video description.
Not just a great coach, but a mind reader as well !
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Muscle snatch, got it read today’s article, and yup that’s what I’m doing, but you probably knew that. I don’t know if it was directed at me, but really appreciated today’s article, now I know what to call what I’ve been doing, and somehow without any direction I’m bang on with your video description.
Not just a great coach, but a mind reader as well ![/quote]
Credit the editors for that 
Eventually you will be able to move on to the power snatch… all you need to do is at the same timer that you are doing the “press” portion of the muscle snatch, you get under FAST (half to quarter squat) by punching the hip back, bending the knees and moving the feet laterally slightly.
Is there a new article regarding the muscle snatch/snatch? I can not find it.
[quote]Sven-Andreas wrote:
Is there a new article regarding the muscle snatch/snatch? I can not find it. [/quote]
Same here
He was quoting the V-Taper Workout that was on T-Nation home yesterday under trending articles. This article is from May.
V-Taper Workout: https://www.T-Nation.com/workouts/v-taper-workout
Hm, I took a couple of videos for sets 4 and 5 trying the SGHPs from blocks (I found a 24hr Fitness that had about 4 of these stands!).
Critiques?
145 lbs, set 4 of 5, 1/4 speed (includes setup–first rep starts at 0:31)
145 lbs, set 5 of 5, normal speed
Is the camera angle with the stands+padding a big problem for providing a good critique? Do you have suggestions on a better camera angle with this setup for diagnosis and coaching?
From my own feel of it, and even watching them a bit:
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I note that before I jump, I slide my knees forward a bit from the tibia-perpendicular position so that they end up in front of the bar. This seems consistent with the geometrically-derived power clean technique that I’ve read in Rippetoe’s Starting Strength (3rd edition, I think) and what I think I’m seeing in CT’s video: Snatch High Pull from Blocks - YouTube
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It felt and even looks in some of the reps that I’m not getting to full extension in my knees especially, and maybe even the hips, as I wouldn’t describe my most extended position as “chest to the ceiling”. On this point, I think I was better at 135 lbs, so maybe 145 lbs is too much for me right now.
Thanks for watching and any thoughts!
I don’t really like what I’m seeing.
First in the set-up your thoracic spine is not in the right position. The chest should be lifted up a bit more … it seems “caved in”. Your shoulders seem to far in front of the bar too… they should be directly above the barbell or VERY slightly in front. That puts your hips too high and the legs too much extended in the starting position.
Because of that position instead of initiating the lift with a vertical movement (mostly via pushing up with the legs) you are initiating horizontally by “prying” your knees under the bar; the knees/hips move forward to scoop under the barbell while the torso extend and there is little upward movement when doing that. As a result when you launch the barbell up the shoulders are back and the hips/knees are forward, which is a very weak position.
The initial movement is driving up with the legs, think about pushing against the floor as hard as you can… simply stand up fast. So when you hit the “launch” position your body is pretty much fully extended upward, in a straight line. It’s only at the last moment that you lift the chest up… for most of the movement simply think about standing up straight as explosively as possible. The knees should not move forward to any significant degree.
Thanks a ton for your feedback, coach. And thanks for your honesty and clarification.
It sounds like I’d misunderstood an earlier comment in this thread emphasizing that our tibias be perpendicular to the ground in our start position; I’d taken that to mean that our knees would basically be straight/extended, hence the hip angle/torso lean and the need to drive the knees forward and under the bar in order to get into a position to drive the bar up, as you noticed.
I went into the gym Friday night after reading your feedback and did a bunch of sets with a changed start position, letting my knees start forward of the bar and getting my torso more upright. But your advice to drive up from the legs to stand up didn’t quite sink in or connect with what I’m doing until Sunday when I was reviewing my videos.
Here’re my videos from Friday after reading your feedback…slow and full speed from different angles. The start position is hopefully a change for the better.
10/23/2015 Snatch Grip High Pull, set 3 of 10, 115 lbs, 1/4 speed. Front quarter view:
10/23/2015 Snatch Grip High Pull, set 4 of 10, 115 lbs, 1/4 speed. Back quarter view:
10/23/2015 Snatch Grip High Pull, set 5 of 10, 115 lbs, full speed. Back quarter view:
10/23/2015 Snatch Grip High Pull, set 9 of 10, 135 lbs, 1/4 speed. Back quarter view:
10/23/2015 Snatch Grip High Pull, set 10 of 10, 135 lbs, full speed. Back quarter view:
I think I’m using my hip movement, hip extension, and the lever of my back to swing/catapult the barbell up to some degree vs just standing/jumping/shooting up–like…too much hip extension and not enough or not quite coordinated right with the knee and ankle extension? Mentally, and maybe visible in the slow-motion videos, it seems like maybe I’m almost starting at the top vs the bottom. At present, I’m thinking that’s my next big thing to change, if the start position is improved and improved enough.
Thanks for taking a look at whichever video, if any, you can take the time for!
Cheers!
I went in for another bunch of SGHPs yesterday (10/26). I tried to keep my starting form from 10/23 with letting the knees be forward of the bar and maybe even strive to be a bit more vertical in the torso (but I forgot to mentally check on my thoracic extension…and I failed to remember the chest to ceiling cue).
But more than that, I tried to think more bottom up–more “standing up as fast as possible”/jumping–to maybe avoid what I thought I was seeing in my prior videos (almost trying to catapult the bar from my hip hinging).
Not sure how successful I was, but the 140 lb one seems to be a straighter bar path up…which seems like a good thing.
Here are the videos:
10/26/2015 SGHP 135 lbs set 5 of 6, 1/4 speed
10/26/2015 SGHP 135 lbs set 6 of 6, full speed
10/26/2015 SGHP 140 lbs, set 5 of 5, 1/4 speed
Feedback and thoughts welcome.
Thanks!