So ummm, why doesn’t everybody just stay at the bodyfat levels they are most comfortable with.
^As usual, Ebomb presents some good points, and rationality into a ‘discussion’ that has bounced all over the place. PX is correct in that some enhanced Pros do indeed put on a ton of weight in their quest to raise the stage weight the next season, but I have never known any natural competitors who have gone so far in an offseason that they look like complete crap (not gonna throw a # out though, as it really differs based on structures), and had it yield more than a couple of lbs the next season for them.
Sure, some guys get heavy for years before they ever decide to diet down to compete for the first time, but was it really necessary? I guess that’s the question that will always be debated. I’ve heard CT mention how his mode of thinking has changed over the years, now believing that slow and steady gains are the better option. Of course people will then discuss how his early years spent powerlifting created a foundation.
I was up to about 215-220 myself before I ever got the notion in my head to see what was underneath the ‘softness’, but in hindsight, I don’t really think it made much of a difference. My usual weight being 205 lbs vs the 220 lbs max I reached, didn’t affect my strength levels one bit, so the strength argument for me goes out the window (had my best lifts when I was about 190-195 for the record).
The suggestion to eat in order to gain is obviously good advice, especially when you’re talking to someone who is so lean that you can’t even be sure that they’re ingesting enough nutrients to even support growth. This should be understood by everyone. However, eating 1000 extra cals each day, compared to 500 extra calories each day, really isn’t going to make a huge difference just so long as your surplus can support growth and continued maintenance of new muscle tissue.
If you consider how much is costs the body calorically to feed a lb of muscle each day, and couple that with the rate of protein synthesis for even the most genetically gifted natural athlete (a lb or 2 per month, tops), I fail to see how some people can rationalize getting as ‘soft’ (I use the word as a generalization here) as they do.
S
[quote]zraw wrote:
PX, has it never occured to you that if you were to diet down to a real level of leaness (lets say stage ready) you would probably just end up losing that muscle mass that you supposedly gained cause of allowing yourself to stay fat and stuff?
[/quote]
Dude, I am very happy with my progress. You seem to want me to lose muscle for some reason.
I find your posts funny though. keep it up.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
So ummm, why doesn’t everybody just stay at the bodyfat levels they are most comfortable with.[/quote]
But then we couldn’t get all worked up when someone else does something different! -lol
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Sure, some guys get heavy for years before they ever decide to diet down to compete for the first time, but was it really necessary?
S[/quote]
That would depend on if those guys are generally bigger than the guys who don’t.
CT bulked up.
Whether he changes his mind now or not, he was clearly not small at all and clearly lifted weights when he was heavier. I would say it helped him be the size he is now.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
So ummm, why doesn’t everybody just stay at the bodyfat levels they are most comfortable with.[/quote]
Amen.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Sure, some guys get heavy for years before they ever decide to diet down to compete for the first time, but was it really necessary?
S[/quote]
That would depend on if those guys are generally bigger than the guys who don’t.
CT bulked up.
Whether he changes his mind now or not, he was clearly not small at all and clearly lifted weights when he was heavier. I would say it helped him be the size he is now. [/quote]
Are you referring to CT when he was an olympic lifter?
But you still aren’t addressing the actual question/issue that was initially posed which was the benefits or lack of such regarding bulking up excessively as a natural that is competing.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
[quote]Hallowed wrote:
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I forget that no one here actually knows that i make sarcastic jokes all the time. Hard to get that through the interwebz[/quote]
Very hard. A smiley face icon usually gets the job done though. I’m sure you can understand where I was coming from, and vice versa as well. Thanks for the follow up neighbor.
[/quote]
This is mothafukkin T-Nation
Nobody posts no gottdam Smiley Faces.[/quote]
awkward, I do :)[/quote]
I assumed those were only for me!
I don’t know if we can say that Thibs ‘bulked’, he merely ate like a powerlifter, and admittedly bailed out of any attempt to diet down once he realized he was getting smaller. I figure this approach probably is common amongst most ‘gym-big’ lifters.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t know if we can say that Thibs ‘bulked’, he merely ate like a powerlifter, and admittedly bailed out of any attempt to diet down once he realized he was getting smaller. I figure this approach probably is common amongst most ‘gym-big’ lifters.
S[/quote]
Ya, my impression was that his being ‘softer’ when he was an olympic lifter had little to do with the fact that he was actively bulking and was just not focusing on bodybuilding related goals.
I remember reading how he seemed to think he was leaner than he was and didn’t realize how much he actually had to lose to be actually lean though…that may be pertinent to this thread.
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
So ummm, why doesn’t everybody just stay at the bodyfat levels they are most comfortable with.[/quote]
Amen.[/quote]
Really? someone does not win a contest by being at the most comfortable level of bodyfat. If a 140lber is only comfortable at 6% bf or less, well he prob wont be able to add the necessary amount of mass and never get very far. If guy at 250 is only comfortable at 18%bf and cant pshycologically handle cutting down to sub 10%, he will not get very far.
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t know if we can say that Thibs ‘bulked’, he merely ate like a powerlifter, and admittedly bailed out of any attempt to diet down once he realized he was getting smaller. I figure this approach probably is common amongst most ‘gym-big’ lifters.
S[/quote]
Ya, my impression was that his being ‘softer’ when he was an olympic lifter had little to do with the fact that he was actively bulking and was just not focusing on bodybuilding related goals.
I remember reading how he seemed to think he was leaner than he was and didn’t realize how much he actually had to lose to be actually lean though…that may be pertinent to this thread. [/quote]
CT has mentioned a variety of eating habit changes that he’s gone through on the way to where he’s at now. I believe another defining factor in his choice of how much weight to hold on a regular basis is that he has a heart condition and his general health suffers when he tries to hold onto too much size. I could be wrong, but I’m fairly confident that he mentioned something to that effect a long time ago through the Indigo Project threads.
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t know if we can say that Thibs ‘bulked’, he merely ate like a powerlifter, and admittedly bailed out of any attempt to diet down once he realized he was getting smaller. I figure this approach probably is common amongst most ‘gym-big’ lifters.
S[/quote]
Ya, my impression was that his being ‘softer’ when he was an olympic lifter had little to do with the fact that he was actively bulking and was just not focusing on bodybuilding related goals.
I remember reading how he seemed to think he was leaner than he was and didn’t realize how much he actually had to lose to be actually lean though…that may be pertinent to this thread. [/quote]
But…his approach was no different than mine. I was also following powerlifters around back then and training more like them. It still helped me build that solid base of mass…and as to your other question:
What is “excessively”? You have never seen me tell anyone to get as heavy as I did. I got that heavy because I knew I could lose it…because I knew I had a fast metabolism. I did lose it. I wasn’t wrong.
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t know if we can say that Thibs ‘bulked’, he merely ate like a powerlifter, and admittedly bailed out of any attempt to diet down once he realized he was getting smaller. I figure this approach probably is common amongst most ‘gym-big’ lifters.
S[/quote]
Ya, my impression was that his being ‘softer’ when he was an olympic lifter had little to do with the fact that he was actively bulking and was just not focusing on bodybuilding related goals.
I remember reading how he seemed to think he was leaner than he was and didn’t realize how much he actually had to lose to be actually lean though…that may be pertinent to this thread. [/quote]
CT has mentioned a variety of eating habit changes that he’s gone through on the way to where he’s at now. I believe another defining factor in his choice of how much weight to hold on a regular basis is that he has a heart condition and his general health suffers when he tries to hold onto too much size. I could be wrong, but I’m fairly confident that he mentioned something to that effect a long time ago through the Indigo Project threads.
[/quote]
Agreed. I mean, I have spent time with him. He ate and trained like most crazy fuckers who do this like he does and did back then.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
So ummm, why doesn’t everybody just stay at the bodyfat levels they are most comfortable with.[/quote]
Amen.[/quote]
Really? someone does not win a contest by being at the most comfortable level of bodyfat. If a 140lber is only comfortable at 6% bf or less, well he prob wont be able to add the necessary amount of mass and never get very far. If guy at 250 is only comfortable at 18%bf and cant pshycologically handle cutting down to sub 10%, he will not get very far.
[/quote]
I feel like it was kind of assumed that we were talking about people who have some clue as to what is expected for onstage condition. If someone doesn’t EVER want to gain or cut, that person is obviously boned. I thought we had contextualized the discussion to focus on people who are at least at the level of legitimately competing, and who thus have a clue about what a bodybuilding contest entails.
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
So ummm, why doesn’t everybody just stay at the bodyfat levels they are most comfortable with.[/quote]
Amen.[/quote]
Really? someone does not win a contest by being at the most comfortable level of bodyfat. If a 140lber is only comfortable at 6% bf or less, well he prob wont be able to add the necessary amount of mass and never get very far. If guy at 250 is only comfortable at 18%bf and cant pshycologically handle cutting down to sub 10%, he will not get very far.
[/quote]
I feel like it was kind of assumed that we were talking about people who have some clue as to what is expected for onstage condition. If someone doesn’t EVER want to gain or cut, that person is obviously boned. I thought we had contextualized the discussion to focus on people who are at least at the level of legitimately competing, and who thus have a clue about what a bodybuilding contest entails.
[/quote]
I was making a general point. Nothing about bbing is comfortable. You can do what you feel is comfortable, or you can listen to the advice of those that have competed successfully such as stu and ebomb and others. I woulkd bet that the person that does the latter, whether or not it is comfortable, would make better progress.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
So ummm, why doesn’t everybody just stay at the bodyfat levels they are most comfortable with.[/quote]
Amen.[/quote]
Really? someone does not win a contest by being at the most comfortable level of bodyfat. If a 140lber is only comfortable at 6% bf or less, well he prob wont be able to add the necessary amount of mass and never get very far. If guy at 250 is only comfortable at 18%bf and cant pshycologically handle cutting down to sub 10%, he will not get very far.
[/quote]
I feel like it was kind of assumed that we were talking about people who have some clue as to what is expected for onstage condition. If someone doesn’t EVER want to gain or cut, that person is obviously boned. I thought we had contextualized the discussion to focus on people who are at least at the level of legitimately competing, and who thus have a clue about what a bodybuilding contest entails.
[/quote]
I was making a general point. Nothing about bbing is comfortable. You can do what you feel is comfortable, or you can listen to the advice of those that have competed successfully such as stu and ebomb and others. I woulkd bet that the person that does the latter, whether or not it is comfortable, would make better progress.
[/quote]
Dude, none of what any of us have done is “comfortable” and I don’t think that was a point being made. Training six days a week while in school wasn’t “comfortable”. Being in class all day made it impossible to eat chicken breasts and gain. I made adjustments so my hard work paid off.
That is what was said before.
I do agree that you should listen to people who have competed. Listen to the guys in the gym who truly look impressive…and not just the leanest ones. Get info from as many sources as possible. That’s real advice.
Further, if you plan on doing this and succeeding at things completely unrelated to bodybuilding as well, you had better learn how to make it ALL work together.
I see a lot of people giving up because they can’t be “perfect”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
PX, has it never occured to you that if you were to diet down to a real level of leaness (lets say stage ready) you would probably just end up losing that muscle mass that you supposedly gained cause of allowing yourself to stay fat and stuff?
[/quote]
Dude, I am very happy with my progress. You seem to want me to lose muscle for some reason.
I find your posts funny though. keep it up.[/quote]
This has nothing to do with YOUR PROGRESS and wether you are HAPPY WITH WHERE YOU ARE AT RIGHT NOW
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COMPETING NATURAL BODYBUILDERS CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
Well I think staying lean is fine but it by far is not the fastest way, over bulking is, just look at meganewb it’s just not many people have what t takes to go to that level or even remotely close, the ones that do are more times out of ten bigger then everyone else and that’s not coincidence.
I’m tired of this argument really it has nothing to do with being comfortable it’s just about how much suffering your willing to go through to get an end result. At the same time if someone does this and never even tries to really cut down dramatically and this is not directed at you x but someone who has already poste in this thread, that’s just weakness I mind and is sad. I you want to stay at a low bf percent the rest of your life fine but your en result won’t be bigger and leaner then mine
Oh or stronger lol