Explaining Year-Round Lean Doesn't Lead to Size

Training Bodybuilding
141

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Dude, your an ass. Seriously. You aren’t even that well educated and it shows. Take that shit elsewhere. You keep up like this and it will be handled.[/quote]

This internet tough guy shit is corny. GIve it a rest will ya? Since you dont have the balls to delete my posts, Ill do you a favor and stop posting. If Biotest asks why I wont be spending money here any further, can you do me a favor an refer the kind people to this thread? Thanks.

[/quote]

Well this has clearly been a productive thread.

Goddamnit.

142

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
It kinda frustrates me that a polite, seemingly smart and advanced guy like 2020wellness gets so many bullshit responses in a thread like this. I mean fuck, it’s not like he’s a 130 lbs 17 year old asking how to get big biceps (15"), or some cocky douchebag trolling tnation. People pretending like they don’t get what he’s asking/wanting to discuss, playing dumb just to try and make OP look silly, twisting words, etc.

So much for hallowed’s thinking most people are decent and stuff…shit.

About searching for another thread where this was discussed…shit guys, you all know how that almost always works. Person gets flamed for bumping it. [/quote]

Not sure who you are reffering to that was “twisting words.” This thread turned into a disscussion on bulk vs. maintaining leanness but it certainly was not started for that purpose.

143

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Dude, your an ass. Seriously. You aren’t even that well educated and it shows. Take that shit elsewhere. You keep up like this and it will be handled.[/quote]

This internet tough guy shit is corny.
[/quote]

Oh, the IRONY.

144

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
Jesus Christ this is getting ridiculous.

This shit comes down to individual lifestyle choice and ability. Not everyone can get away with the same things physically and psychologically as far as eating habits go. Not everyone can afford to eat the same way based on their lifestyle choices outside of bodybuilding.

Obviously if someone isn’t making any improvements, they are fucking up and need to make changes. But as long as that individual IS improving, why is their way of doing things any worse than someone else’s?

I CANNOT psychologically deal with walking around fat and I’ll be the first to admit that. I cracked 200lbs in middle school… getting hyooge at all costs just doesn’t appeal to me because growing up fat left its mark on me. Do I want to be 215-225 while maintaining my current level of leanness by the time I’m 30? Fuck yeah. But I have the better part of 8 years to put that weight on and I’d rather maintain a more aesthetically appealing look in the meantime. Regardless of how anyone wants to classify my physique- tiny, weak, strong, hyooge- I look bigger and lift heavier weights than I did 8-10 months ago, so I don’t think I’m doing it WRONG.

You can go about improving the physique in a variety of ways- it comes down to finding a way to make gains while maintaining a lifestyle that is satisfying FOR YOU. This should be pretty apparent to anyone who looks at the variety in methods of the guys on here who know their shit and have the physical credentials to back it up.[/quote]

I get where your coming from, but this isnt’ about whether someone can afford a certain amount of food due to other things in life, is making gains while maintaining a satifying lifestyle, or is psycologically uncomfortable with bulking or dieting.

It’s about the best route for a natty bber to take to have a winning physique on contest day regardless off “life”.

145

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
Jesus Christ this is getting ridiculous.

This shit comes down to individual lifestyle choice and ability. Not everyone can get away with the same things physically and psychologically as far as eating habits go. Not everyone can afford to eat the same way based on their lifestyle choices outside of bodybuilding.

Obviously if someone isn’t making any improvements, they are fucking up and need to make changes. But as long as that individual IS improving, why is their way of doing things any worse than someone else’s?

I CANNOT psychologically deal with walking around fat and I’ll be the first to admit that. I cracked 200lbs in middle school… getting hyooge at all costs just doesn’t appeal to me because growing up fat left its mark on me. Do I want to be 215-225 while maintaining my current level of leanness by the time I’m 30? Fuck yeah. But I have the better part of 8 years to put that weight on and I’d rather maintain a more aesthetically appealing look in the meantime. Regardless of how anyone wants to classify my physique- tiny, weak, strong, hyooge- I look bigger and lift heavier weights than I did 8-10 months ago, so I don’t think I’m doing it WRONG.

You can go about improving the physique in a variety of ways- it comes down to finding a way to make gains while maintaining a lifestyle that is satisfying FOR YOU. This should be pretty apparent to anyone who looks at the variety in methods of the guys on here who know their shit and have the physical credentials to back it up.[/quote]

I get where your coming from, but this isnt’ about whether someone can afford a certain amount of food due to other things in life, is making gains while maintaining a satifying lifestyle, or is psycologically uncomfortable with bulking or dieting.

It’s about the best route for a natty bber to take to have a winning physique on contest day regardless off “life”. [/quote]

The best way to do that is start early, take advantage of growth spurts, work all out for that base of mass and work on refining once that solid large base of muscle is built. Anything else is largely preference and semantics.

Obviously the life goals of that person will factor in as well in that final outcome…so yeah, what bigmac wrote is relevant.

146

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
Jesus Christ this is getting ridiculous.

This shit comes down to individual lifestyle choice and ability. Not everyone can get away with the same things physically and psychologically as far as eating habits go. Not everyone can afford to eat the same way based on their lifestyle choices outside of bodybuilding.

Obviously if someone isn’t making any improvements, they are fucking up and need to make changes. But as long as that individual IS improving, why is their way of doing things any worse than someone else’s?

I CANNOT psychologically deal with walking around fat and I’ll be the first to admit that. I cracked 200lbs in middle school… getting hyooge at all costs just doesn’t appeal to me because growing up fat left its mark on me. Do I want to be 215-225 while maintaining my current level of leanness by the time I’m 30? Fuck yeah. But I have the better part of 8 years to put that weight on and I’d rather maintain a more aesthetically appealing look in the meantime. Regardless of how anyone wants to classify my physique- tiny, weak, strong, hyooge- I look bigger and lift heavier weights than I did 8-10 months ago, so I don’t think I’m doing it WRONG.

You can go about improving the physique in a variety of ways- it comes down to finding a way to make gains while maintaining a lifestyle that is satisfying FOR YOU. This should be pretty apparent to anyone who looks at the variety in methods of the guys on here who know their shit and have the physical credentials to back it up.[/quote]

I get where your coming from, but this isnt’ about whether someone can afford a certain amount of food due to other things in life, is making gains while maintaining a satifying lifestyle, or is psycologically uncomfortable with bulking or dieting.

It’s about the best route for a natty bber to take to have a winning physique on contest day regardless off “life”. [/quote]

The best way to do that is start early, take advantage of growth spurts, work all out for that base of mass and work on refining once that solid large base of muscle is built. Anything else is largely preference and semantics.

Obviously the life goals of that person will factor in as well in that final outcome…so yeah, what bigmac wrote is relevant.
[/quote]

They are relevant to an individual bodybuilder, obviously, but they are not relevant to a discussion about the best way to acheive a winning bb physique.

147

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

They are relevant to an individual bodybuilder, obviously, but they are not relevant to a discussion about the best way to acheive a winning bb physique.
[/quote]

OK…but the rest of what I wrote still stands…and for the record, I doubt there is any base difference between the approach of a natural and someone on steroids. While steroids may allow the retention of more muscle when dieting, they don’t change the basic stimulus of growing muscle or the base genetics you are training around as far as metabolism (although enhanced).

Once again, no one is telling people to gain fat for no reason.

148

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
They are relevant to an individual bodybuilder, obviously, but they are not relevant to a discussion about the best way to acheive a winning bb physique.
[/quote]

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that there really is a best route that is universally applicable to every natty BBer. It’s not like non-pro BBers train in the off season or prep in a vacuum where life doesn’t factor in. In fact, some of the natty BBers that I respect the most on this site and look to as role models are the ones that live pretty full lives outside of BBing.

I haven’t competed yet though, so I guess my opinion is that valuable to the discussion of what is best.

EDIT: Also, if we’re talking about pro competitors for whom competing is a priority, I guess there could be a best route. But I still feel like that doesn’t account for individual genetic tendencies. Maybe I’m overthinking, but it seems like an oversimplification to suggest that all individuals will respond optimally to the same plan.

149

Also, like I mentioned as far as growth spurts…I am assuming some here believe that no matter what, the guy who gains slowly will somehow still reach the same finishing point. I would debate against that.

The ideal beginner would be someone still growing in height who understood how to lift to promote that muscle growth and wasn’t afraid to eat.

The guy starting at age 25 will be at a disadvantage and yes, I do believe the hormones released during those periods could be an advantage.

I have been writing that for years here. It would be cool if people actually listened.

150

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
Maybe I’m overthinking, but it seems like an oversimplification to suggest that all individuals will respond optimally to the same plan.[/quote]

That’s not overthinking. That’s just thinking.

151

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, like I mentioned as far as growth spurts…I am assuming some here believe that no matter what, the guy who gains slowly will somehow still reach the same finishing point. I would debate against that.

The ideal beginner would be someone still growing in height who understood how to lift to promote that muscle growth and wasn’t afraid to eat.

The guy starting at age 25 will be at a disadvantage and yes, I do believe the hormones released during those periods could be an advantage.

I have been writing that for years here. It would be cool if people actually listened.[/quote]

Lol I might be fucked on that front at this point because I really only started doing things right consistently at 21.

152

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
Jesus Christ this is getting ridiculous.

This shit comes down to individual lifestyle choice and ability. Not everyone can get away with the same things physically and psychologically as far as eating habits go. Not everyone can afford to eat the same way based on their lifestyle choices outside of bodybuilding.

Obviously if someone isn’t making any improvements, they are fucking up and need to make changes. But as long as that individual IS improving, why is their way of doing things any worse than someone else’s?

I CANNOT psychologically deal with walking around fat and I’ll be the first to admit that. I cracked 200lbs in middle school… getting hyooge at all costs just doesn’t appeal to me because growing up fat left its mark on me. Do I want to be 215-225 while maintaining my current level of leanness by the time I’m 30? Fuck yeah. But I have the better part of 8 years to put that weight on and I’d rather maintain a more aesthetically appealing look in the meantime. Regardless of how anyone wants to classify my physique- tiny, weak, strong, hyooge- I look bigger and lift heavier weights than I did 8-10 months ago, so I don’t think I’m doing it WRONG.

You can go about improving the physique in a variety of ways- it comes down to finding a way to make gains while maintaining a lifestyle that is satisfying FOR YOU. This should be pretty apparent to anyone who looks at the variety in methods of the guys on here who know their shit and have the physical credentials to back it up.[/quote]

I get where your coming from, but this isnt’ about whether someone can afford a certain amount of food due to other things in life, is making gains while maintaining a satifying lifestyle, or is psycologically uncomfortable with bulking or dieting.

It’s about the best route for a natty bber to take to have a winning physique on contest day regardless off “life”. [/quote]

The best way to do that is start early, take advantage of growth spurts, work all out for that base of mass and work on refining once that solid large base of muscle is built. Anything else is largely preference and semantics.

Obviously the life goals of that person will factor in as well in that final outcome…so yeah, what bigmac wrote is relevant.
[/quote]

I personally am of the same mindset I like this post

153

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
They are relevant to an individual bodybuilder, obviously, but they are not relevant to a discussion about the best way to acheive a winning bb physique.
[/quote]

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that there really is a best route that is universally applicable to every natty BBer. It’s not like non-pro BBers train in the off season or prep in a vacuum where life doesn’t factor in. In fact, some of the natty BBers that I respect the most on this site and look to as role models are the ones that live pretty full lives outside of BBing.

I haven’t competed yet though, so I guess my opinion is that valuable to the discussion of what is best.

EDIT: Also, if we’re talking about pro competitors for whom competing is a priority, I guess there could be a best route. But I still feel like that doesn’t account for individual genetic tendencies. Maybe I’m overthinking, but it seems like an oversimplification to suggest that all individuals will respond optimally to the same plan.[/quote]

What are we discussing then? I’m not suggesting that there is only one best golden path, and ofcoarse people are a bit diiferent genetically. But we are here to discuss better ways to acheive the best physique right? No, people do not prep inside a vacuum, life gets in the way sometimes, but what does that have to do with whether an aspiring bber should bulk hard initially or stay 20 lbs from contest condition year round? If he can’t afford the food or is not psychologically capable than it doesn’t matter, he won’t be successfull. There may not be the one best route certified by bbers worldwide, but there are certainly ways of training and eating that are more effective than others which, I thought, we are trying to uncover here.

154

Afrikus is alive? lol

155

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
No, people do not prep inside a vacuum, life gets in the way sometimes, but what does that have to do with whether an aspiring bber should bulk hard initially or stay 20 lbs from contest condition year round? [/quote]

?

An aspiring bodybuilder should be out to see exactly what he is capable of…not sitting around ASSUMING he can only grow some specific amount of muscle. PROS do that because they are already near their absolute limit and are more concerned with avoiding gaining too much in the wrong areas. Unless this person you speak off is a very advanced lifter, why would he be concerned about staying “20lbs from a contest” unless literally in the middle of contest prep?

Why wouldn’t he be more interested in making sure he grew as much as he could?

[quote]
If he can’t afford the food or is not psychologically capable than it doesn’t matter, he won’t be successfull. [/quote]

? Most of the top names you know about from the 70’s, 80’s and even 90’s were by no means rich and ate what they could afford. It isn’t like every bodybuilder who made it was eating top of the line supplements and eating prime rib everyday.

There is always give and take unless you grew up rich.

I think we have. Why not look at the people who got swole?

156

[quote]Professor X wrote:

An aspiring bodybuilder should be out to see exactly what he is capable of…not sitting around ASSUMING he can only grow some specific amount of muscle. PROS do that because they are already near their absolute limit and are more concerned with avoiding gaining too much in the wrong areas. Unless this person you speak off is a very advanced lifter, why would he be concerned about staying “20lbs from a contest” unless literally in the middle of contest prep?

Why wouldn’t he be more interested in making sure he grew as much as he could? [/quote]

I never said a bber should stay 20 lb withing contest shape, I was simply reffering to the discussion.

[quote]

? Most of the top names you know about from the 70’s, 80’s and even 90’s were by no means rich and ate what they could afford. It isn’t like every bodybuilder who made it was eating top of the line supplements and eating prime rib everyday.

There is always give and take unless you grew up rich. [/quote]

They didnt simply eat what they could afford, they made sacrifices to find a way to afford what they needed to eat.

[quote]
I think we have. Why not look at the people who got swole?[/quote]

Yes, that’s obviously a way. I would also add people that got contest condition aswell and competed successfully, not just swolle.

157

Afrikus - truth teller

158

PX, has it never occured to you that if you were to diet down to a real level of leaness (lets say stage ready) you would probably just end up losing that muscle mass that you supposedly gained cause of allowing yourself to stay fat and stuff?

And if not, why dont you go and turn into the #1 pro natty bber ?!

Its all good you used your Lee Priest example and shit but what natural pro bulks/bulked up to a very high bodypoint/bf % to then lean down?

159

[quote]zraw wrote:
PX, has it never occured to you that if you were to diet down to a real level of leaness (lets say stage ready) you would probably just end up losing that muscle mass that you supposedly gained cause of allowing yourself to stay fat and stuff?

And if not, why dont you go and turn into the #1 pro natty bber ?!

Its all good you used your Lee Priest example and shit but what natural pro bulks/bulked up to a very high bodypoint/bf % to then lean down?[/quote]

Ya, this thread basically came down to disagreement because people were talking about completely different things.

There is a big difference between the following: post-beginner natural COMPETITIVE bodybuilders, natural non-competitive bodybuilders and their goals, assisted lifters, or those that aren’t even bodybuilders at all and don’t have any goals to diet down to extreme levels of leanness.

Bodybuilding is much more than dieting for a show, yes. It is a lifestyle. That being said, it was pretty clear that what was being discussed in this thread from the start was methods of bulking for the competitive natural bodybuilder that diets down at least in the near future (1-2 years).

160

[quote]Hallowed wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I forget that no one here actually knows that i make sarcastic jokes all the time. Hard to get that through the interwebz[/quote]

Very hard. A smiley face icon usually gets the job done though. I’m sure you can understand where I was coming from, and vice versa as well. Thanks for the follow up neighbor.
[/quote]

This is mothafukkin T-Nation
Nobody posts no gottdam Smiley Faces.[/quote]

awkward, I do :slight_smile: